Brigby and Cthulu - when we will get feedback?

Magic

Dear Brigby and Cthulu,

Can you please provide the timetable for when we will get feedback from the developers about the Vaulting fiasco of 2017?

Regardless of my personal opinion on the subject I believe that it's key to receive information about the reasons behind the decision and the following steps. You both have informed us that the development team was made aware of the feedback on the forum. Now the beta testers need the feedback from you.

Is this feature going to stay as it is? If yes - what is the reasoning behind it in light of the mainly negative feedback of the player base?
Is this feature going to be updated? If yes - when and how?
Is this feature going to be cancelled? If yes - when and why? (I am curious to hear why as this would shed light on the reasons to implement it in the first place).

So many decisions of the development team seem to be completely detached from players reality. Yet I know that the players will keep playing this game regardless. But it would be great for the credibility of the development team and both community managers if we can get information about it. You can start by telling us when we will get the feedback if you don't know it's "content" yet.

ArcanaMoon

They havent feedback directly, but it seen there is something called, Bag of Tricks Legendary comming with the new event of ultron for the Legendary store which... have acces to all 4* without the 5*, been the only five star the new Hawkeye, check it at the post of the Avengers vs Ultron, https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60800 And, if you dont want it, i leave it here:

Bag of Tricks Legendary Cover Store

o 10% chance for a Hawkeye (Clint Barton) cover
o 90% chance at all the latest 4-Stars
o Additional Tokens can be purchased for 25 Command Points

The event start today, so will discover it soon enough

Ayasugi-san

Uh, the Bag of Tricks pack will only have the latest 12 4 s. The part you copied and pasted even says that.

Quebbster

ArcanaMoon wrote:

They havent feedback directly, but it seen there is something called, Bag of Tricks Legendary comming with the new event of ultron for the Legendary store which... have acces to all 4* without the 5*, been the only five star the new Hawkeye, check it at the post of the Avengers vs Ultron, https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=60800 And, if you dont want it, i leave it here:

Bag of Tricks Legendary Cover Store

o 10% chance for a Hawkeye (Clint Barton) cover
o 90% chance at all the latest 4-Stars
o Additional Tokens can be purchased for 25 Command Points

The event start today, so will discover it soon enough

That's standard for new character releases, only the name Changes. Black Panther had Hail to the King tokens, Thanos had Purple Reign tokens and so on. It's the same as a Latest Legends, only instead of 15% chance for one of Three fivestars it is a 10% chance for Hawkeye specifically. Other than that there is no difference - there should be the same twelve fourstars as the regular Latest Legends tokens since it says "the latest 4-stars".

madsalad

I don't understand all the vitriol for the vaulting. As more and more 4*s were added to the lineup, it became increasingly more and more difficult to get the latest new 4*s covered. This helps to fix that and also allows for a way to continue obtaining covers for older 4*s by way of favorites. This also allows you to focus on building up a particularly powerful older 4* character (Iceman, Jean, Fistbuster, etc...) instead of getting 20 useless covers for Mr. Fantastic, Miles, Venom, etc...

I guess if I could find an issue with it, it would be that you REALLY need to champ the latest 12 4*s ASAP to make continued opening of LLTs worth the time/effort, otherwise you will start getting a lot of useless covers since you don't have enough iso to champ and make the cover useful. But, I was already having that issue when I was getting my 40th Mr. F cover and didn't want to dump my iso into him to champ him anyway.

Am I missing something?

Bowgentle

madsalad wrote:

I don't understand all the vitriol for the vaulting. As more and more 4*s were added to the lineup, it became increasingly more and more difficult to get the latest new 4*s covered. This helps to fix that and also allows for a way to continue obtaining covers for older 4*s by way of favorites. This also allows you to focus on building up a particularly powerful older 4* character (Iceman, Jean, Fistbuster, etc...) instead of getting 20 useless covers for Mr. Fantastic, Miles, Venom, etc...

I guess if I could find an issue with it, it would be that you REALLY need to champ the latest 12 4*s ASAP to make continued opening of LLTs worth the time/effort, otherwise you will start getting a lot of useless covers since you don't have enough iso to champ and make the cover useful. But, I was already having that issue when I was getting my 40th Mr. F cover and didn't want to dump my iso into him to champ him anyway.

Am I missing something?

Yes.
The fact that those 20 covers for Mr. Fantastic, Miles, Venom etc. were champ levels 320-330 for some of us, with a much better payout than the champ levels 270-290 for a new 4.

Magic

madsalad wrote:

I don't understand all the vitriol for the vaulting. As more and more 4*s were added to the lineup, it became increasingly more and more difficult to get the latest new 4*s covered. This helps to fix that and also allows for a way to continue obtaining covers for older 4*s by way of favorites. This also allows you to focus on building up a particularly powerful older 4* character (Iceman, Jean, Fistbuster, etc...) instead of getting 20 useless covers for Mr. Fantastic, Miles, Venom, etc...

I guess if I could find an issue with it, it would be that you REALLY need to champ the latest 12 4*s ASAP to make continued opening of LLTs worth the time/effort, otherwise you will start getting a lot of useless covers since you don't have enough iso to champ and make the cover useful. But, I was already having that issue when I was getting my 40th Mr. F cover and didn't want to dump my iso into him to champ him anyway.

Am I missing something?

I've bolded the mistake in your process. You can focus all you want on the older ones and you are not going anywhere. We are talking about 5% pulls (1 in 20) that grant you 4* to actually add the old one you want to build. 400 CP spent will give you one cover of the Iceman (500 CP if you prefer the latest legends). And you might want multiple of them. Also 6% of heroic tokens will give you a 5% chance of an Iceman. That is 6 out of 100 pulls granting a chance. You need to pull 20 4* to get one. So roughly 320 heroic tokens will give you 1 Iceman cover. You can mix that with the PvP event tokens but not PvE Vault tokens.

Granted - if you select just 1 4* as favorite you might get covers for them in the same pace as before (or faster) but if you want to build 3 of them simultaneously it becomes worse. And you lose a chance for good championing rewards for all the pulls that don't grant you what you need.

Bottom line - forget about bonus heroes. At 5% they will not give you anything in terms of 4*. They will be more frequent (due to larger number) in 3* land but not 4. This does nothing to offset the issue. And the issue is killing the championing rewards for 75% of the 4*.

Magic

Double-post - sorry but it's a separate suggestion, not response as the previous one.


I suggest we ask for feedback on this matter for each post that Brigby or Cthulu do on the forum until the matter is resolved or explained.

MidniteRider7462

madsalad wrote:

I don't understand all the vitriol for the vaulting. As more and more 4*s were added to the lineup, it became increasingly more and more difficult to get the latest new 4*s covered. This helps to fix that and also allows for a way to continue obtaining covers for older 4*s by way of favorites. This also allows you to focus on building up a particularly powerful older 4* character (Iceman, Jean, Fistbuster, etc...) instead of getting 20 useless covers for Mr. Fantastic, Miles, Venom, etc...

I guess if I could find an issue with it, it would be that you REALLY need to champ the latest 12 4*s ASAP to make continued opening of LLTs worth the time/effort, otherwise you will start getting a lot of useless covers since you don't have enough iso to champ and make the cover useful. But, I was already having that issue when I was getting my 40th Mr. F cover and didn't want to dump my iso into him to champ him anyway.

Am I missing something?

One point that can be made is not everyone wants the latest 4* star characters. Personally, I have no desire to roster Riri Williams, Blade, Kate Bishop, or Spider Woman. But yet by forcing this on me, I have a 25% chance of pulling one (1) of these characters -- which are useless. Yes, you can focus on older / classic characters using the FAVORITES feature, however, you only have a 5% chance to draw the Bonus Character. Funny how I just drew (2) Riri Williams back to back, after busting my hump to gather as many command points as possible in order to try to get Moon Knight covers before he is vaulted soon.

The Bonus Character feature has some very good attributes, especially with 3* star characters. And the fact that you are not susceptible to pull-up duds like Venom, Mr. Fantastic, etc. is another valid point. However, they clearly dropped the ball with the 4* star characters. If they would have placed the classic 4* star characters with CLASSICS and he latest 4* star characters in LATEST, they would have had a SMASH hit in their hands with rave reviews from the player base. It would have been a WIN-WIN for everyone.

JablesMc

I get the feeling that "killing" champ rewards might be a way to introduce more parity for newer 4* players in the future. Now, it could be less likely to have a few people pwning with lvl 370 4*, and more people with comparable newer 4*.

As to whether this will work out that way, remains to be seen. I personally have my doubts.

Also, I am not intending this post as either an endorsement, nor a condemnation of this possibility, merely an observation.

broll

I've started to wonder if they regret the champion system and how long the 4* progression is and trying to rush people past it to 5*. They've said they are working SCL based scaling and we've been waiting forever on SCLs 9 & 10. I wonder if they intend those to be 5* rosters and there simply aren't enough 5* rosters. So they make 5*s and the newest 4*s much easier to get (newest cause they still want people spending HP on roster slots like it's going out of style...)

I know if they don't fix the system I'm probably gonna skip over most of the 4* tier now and start focusing on 5*s. I'm not happy about it in the least, but it seems to be the way forward if this meta stays the same...

Starsaber

Magic wrote:

Double-post - sorry but it's a separate suggestion, not response as the previous one.


I suggest we ask for feedback on this matter for each post that Brigby or Cthulu do on the forum until the matter is resolved or explained.

Spamming unrelated topics isn't the answer.

CNash

If they move the metagame to 5*, they have to introduce 6*. Otherwise people will get to 5*, get a good functioning team that can beat everything comfortably (OML / whatever / whatever, usually), get bored and quit.

Magic

Keeping the odds of 5* where they are (and bonus for them as it is) and limiting the CP acquisition kind contradicts the notion that they want vets to move to 5*.

I have been playing for 950 days and I only have 1 5* that can be championed. This is due to me using a hoard of CP when Strange was released. Now he is max covered but not leveled. Anybody else is between 0 (Black Panther) and 8 covers (my 3-5-0 Phoenix). Non of them are usable and with the current rate and dilution they won't be for a very long time. Add the lack of iso to level them on top of issues with scaling and you have a picture for many players. If I don't want to waste 4* covers (and I hate it) I now have to champion the 12 golden ones as soon as possible (i have done so with 2 out of 12). So there is no iso going towards my 5*.

In the previous system the pace was slower but steadier - I didn't have to hoard that much. I would draw a cover towards a new one - great. I would draw one towards my champion - great (more resources). I would get 14th cover - great - I stop pulling and I champion the next hero. This option is now gone - the resources will be "slimmer" as my 22 champions (2 excluded) will not be fueled regularly. Occasionally I would draw a duplicate and I would sell. This will not change at all as Riri will not get priority for ISO over Medusa.

Crowl

Magic wrote:

In the previous system the pace was slower but steadier - I didn't have to hoard that much. I would draw a cover towards a new one - great. I would draw one towards my champion - great (more resources). I would get 14th cover - great - I stop pulling and I champion the next hero. This option is now gone - the resources will be "slimmer" as my 22 champions (2 excluded) will not be fueled regularly. Occasionally I would draw a duplicate and I would sell. This will not change at all as Riri will not get priority for ISO over Medusa.

This was exactly the position I had got into, my roster of champions had expanded enough that I was much more likely to get a cover that could be used rather than one that would end up being wasted.

Crnch73

madsalad wrote:

I don't understand all the vitriol for the vaulting. As more and more 4*s were added to the lineup, it became increasingly more and more difficult to get the latest new 4*s covered. This helps to fix that and also allows for a way to continue obtaining covers for older 4*s by way of favorites. This also allows you to focus on building up a particularly powerful older 4* character (Iceman, Jean, Fistbuster, etc...) instead of getting 20 useless covers for Mr. Fantastic, Miles, Venom, etc...

I guess if I could find an issue with it, it would be that you REALLY need to champ the latest 12 4*s ASAP to make continued opening of LLTs worth the time/effort, otherwise you will start getting a lot of useless covers since you don't have enough iso to champ and make the cover useful. But, I was already having that issue when I was getting my 40th Mr. F cover and didn't want to dump my iso into him to champ him anyway.

Am I missing something?

What if bonus heroes don't come your way? The drop rates don't have to be rooted in reality, just probability. Over 50 LT pulls, no 4* bonus heroes for me. Haven't gotten a 4* from anything other than LT's either, so all 2 of my BH's are from the 3* realm.

Also, the vaulting fixes a problem, I have no problem saying that. Without the vaulting, my newer characters would be stuck at low levels forever, no doubt. With the vaulting though? My older, undercovered characters are stuck at low levels forever. So one way or another, my roster choices are dictated by the developers. RNG was always a part of it, so be it. But they are basically telling me "You want Coulson right? Here, we will give you more Coulson. More Riri, more Agent Venom too! Oh... you also wanted Hulk Buster? good luck."

I just want the flexibility back. Since bonus heroes are nice but not a reliable way to build a roster, the developers have basically said they will decide who to build next. If they keep this method, they need to add a "slump buster" and they need to up the % of BH drops. If they made at least 1 outta every 10-15 LT, guaranteed to drop a BH? I would jump for joy.

They have also basically said that champion levels will now disappear. If they keep this, they should really make champion rewards much better. The current reward structure is too poor for how hard it now becomes to add a champion level on a vaulted character. One level on my champion Ice Man should be worth a lot more than 1k ISO, since I will probably get to add a level 1-2 times a year.

BatteryHorse

Crnch73 wrote:

Also, the vaulting fixes a problem, I have no problem saying that. Without the vaulting, my newer characters would be stuck at low levels forever, no doubt. With the vaulting though? My older, undercovered characters are stuck at low levels forever. So one way or another, my roster choices are dictated by the developers. RNG was always a part of it, so be it. But they are basically telling me "You want Coulson right? Here, we will give you more Coulson. More Riri, more Agent Venom too! Oh... you also wanted Hulk Buster? good luck."

I agree. I don't think people have a huge problem with some vaulting, it actually suits me pretty well right now since the new characters are the ones I need covers for, and a lot of older 4's are either already 13/13 or are low priority for me. My personal chance of a wasted cover is much lower now.

The issue is that almost everything seems to be vaulted, so we don't have a lot of choices anymore. The compromise position of a vault that has the new 12 and another vault that has the historical 4's already in the game, seems like a common-sense solution, and the devs have been very tight-lipped about whether they're considering it.

acescracked

Not to derail the thread but have a quick question. Seen this many times on the forum and I'm curious.

Since the original post is directed at two specific individuals why not just PM them and get a direct response?

firethorne

acescracked wrote:

Not to derail the thread but have a quick question. Seen this many times on the forum and I'm curious.

Since the original post is directed at two specific individuals why not just PM them and get a direct response?

Because 40 pages on the original topic shows that many people are interested in their answer.

Jaedenkaal

firethorne wrote:

acescracked wrote:

Not to derail the thread but have a quick question. Seen this many times on the forum and I'm curious.

Since the original post is directed at two specific individuals why not just PM them and get a direct response?

Because 40 pages on the original topic shows that many people are interested in their answer.

I'm pretty sure they're already aware of this. It's not like they forget every day unless we make new threads and PM them to remind them.

They're obviously waiting for a significant period of time to see how things shake out, and so should we. They don't want to make a bunch of knee-jerk changes to the game based on a bunch of knee-jerk reactions, and I don't want them to either.

Ducky

Starsaber wrote:

Magic wrote:

Double-post - sorry but it's a separate suggestion, not response as the previous one.


I suggest we ask for feedback on this matter for each post that Brigby or Cthulu do on the forum until the matter is resolved or explained.

Spamming unrelated topics isn't the answer.

It is also against the rules and will be dealt with appropriately.