Brigby and Cthulu - when we will get feedback?

broll

GrimSkald wrote:

Here's something to all the people complaining - take a good hard look at how much this will actually affect you. You notice the bad more than the good, so going by feel and your gut can be extremely deceptive. If you've tracked information, go back and review it. If you don't track the information, compare your roster now to two weeks ago, to four weeks ago.

That's what I did, and I'm a lot more calm about the whole thing. I can't offer you too much advice on your own situation, as it probably isn't the same as mine, but I'll give you this for free - unless you draw a lot of LTs it probably won't have a huge impact on you.

I have to say that I was pretty outspoken about my hatred of vaulting. Giving it a try for a few weeks I definitely feel I over-reacted. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like the vaulting and hope they reverse it and/or address it in some way, but the sky isn't falling. I think the over-reaction for me is I've done so much planning working to progress my roster in the best/most optimal way possible, then this comes in with 0 warning and dumps all over my plans. Please devs communicate major changes in advance. Let us plan for them rather then feeling like we got sucker punched...

Magic

I have to say that I was pretty outspoken about my hatred of vaulting. Giving it a try for a few weeks I definitely feel I over-reacted. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like the vaulting and hope they reverse it and/or address it in some way, but the sky isn't falling. I think the over-reaction for me is I've done so much planning working to progress my roster in the best/most optimal way possible, then this comes in with 0 warning and dumps all over my plans. Please devs communicate major changes in advance. Let us plan for them rather then feeling like we got sucker punched...

This pretty much my sentiment. I don't hate the change but I feel like lack of communication lead to a great waste of my effort. And I don't appreciate it. Hence my call to talk to us.

CNash

I'm still firmly in the "nay" camp, for the same reasons as I posted in the main thread: I now have to hoard my LTs and CP or risk running up a huge HP defecit due to pulling too many unrostered characters. This is something I never felt the need to do before - the huge pool of 4*s I was drawing from meant that I almost always got something I could immediately use.

If I don't pull 4*s I don't get the benefit of bonus heroes. And now I'm a hoarder, I'm not pulling them regularly, instead waiting until I have bountiful HP reserves... which takes time. In between Scrooge McDuck money bin moments, my roster is going nowhere fast.

Crnch73

broll wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

Here's something to all the people complaining - take a good hard look at how much this will actually affect you. You notice the bad more than the good, so going by feel and your gut can be extremely deceptive. If you've tracked information, go back and review it. If you don't track the information, compare your roster now to two weeks ago, to four weeks ago.

That's what I did, and I'm a lot more calm about the whole thing. I can't offer you too much advice on your own situation, as it probably isn't the same as mine, but I'll give you this for free - unless you draw a lot of LTs it probably won't have a huge impact on you.

I have to say that I was pretty outspoken about my hatred of vaulting. Giving it a try for a few weeks I definitely feel I over-reacted. Don't get me wrong, I still don't like the vaulting and hope they reverse it and/or address it in some way, but the sky isn't falling. I think the over-reaction for me is I've done so much planning working to progress my roster in the best/most optimal way possible, then this comes in with 0 warning and dumps all over my plans. Please devs communicate major changes in advance. Let us plan for them rather then feeling like we got sucker punched...

Yea I feel this way too, in a way. I never really hated the vaulting, but I certainly hated that it happened without a heads up. The sky is, indeed, not falling. However, I still dislike the vaulting/ only 12 4's available. I have been tracking my information for months now, and I started a new tracking file when bonus heroes were introduced.

Obviously, the sample size is still very small comparatively, but my results look something like this: My roster progress has slowed substantially. I am pulling Agent Venom and Riri at much higher rates than any other 4*, which means I am on a cold streak so-to-speak. The only 4* that I like that has improved since the BH introduction was Red Hulk (my 3* thor was at 218 covers, so I set him as my 3* BH and got the champ reward cover at 223... but this was also helped by 2* thor farming) and Kate Bishop went from 9 covers to 13 before she entered the dreaded vault. I have also pulled 6 unusable green covers for Moon Knight, which is the only color I can't use of his. The rate at which I pull 5's from LT's is up considerably. This is nice in a vacuum, but as others have said, this almost entices me to just try to skip the 4* tier altogether right now. I have at least 5 covers for any 4* character, and 7 champs (with maybe 4 more that are cover maxed and 4 more at 12 covers). I have pulled somewhere near 60 LT's, no bonus character from any of them, so all of my BH's have been 3's. I have yet to pull a 4* from any token that wasn't an LT, and no 4's have come from vaults either. So the % of pulls from other tokens are roughly the same as they were before the change.

To summarize, the token odds have remained the same for me except for LT's, which are spitting out 5's at an 8% increase. I have only gotten bonus heroes for 3's so far, a total ranging near 2% for all eligible token pulls. My roster has changed for sure, but not in an overly positive way. In fact, any positive change has been accomplished in spite of the change. I am still very much in support of a solution to prevent dilution, but this was not the answer (I think we can all agree with that), and the overall system just needs tweaks to be great.

Wumpushunter

GrimSkald wrote:

Here's something to all the people complaining - take a good hard look at how much this will actually affect you. You notice the bad more than the good, so going by feel and your gut can be extremely deceptive. If you've tracked information, go back and review it. If you don't track the information, compare your roster now to two weeks ago, to four weeks ago.

That's what I did, and I'm a lot more calm about the whole thing. I can't offer you too much advice on your own situation, as it probably isn't the same as mine, but I'll give you this for free - unless you draw a lot of LTs it probably won't have a huge impact on you.

My roster was coming along nicely, I had added lots of characters and covers. No champions though in any tier and what did I see in pvp? 95% of the opponents were using vaulted characters. So don't tell me I like it now, don't tell it does effect me much, it ruins the game for me playing at a disadvantage. No amount of time or reflection will bring me a roster of old 4* champions.

So it's still very bad for me and will be until I can fight with the same amazing characters you probably have at level 270 and not weak new characters because the company wants more cash.

kyo28

After pulling some LT's and spending some CP, I'm in the nay camp still, but in the nay camp that says "keep this system but find a way to bring the old 4*s back in the mix with extra LT vaults".

I had various older 4*s well on their way to be champed and this vaulting all but stopped that progression. Among those are top characters like That's a big negative.
Because of a smaller 4* pool to pull from, I was able to champ 4* much faster than anticipated. That's a small plus as he is one of the better new 4*s in my opinion.

So keeping the newer 4*s in the latest LT vault isn't a bad thing. BUT, I have no option whatsoever to go back to continue building my older 4*s. Hence my initial reaction, and I still stand by it:
Add extra LT vaults and put the older 4*s in there. At the rate 4*s and even 5*s are introduced, we'll need extra vaults anyway or the older characters run the risk of being almost impossible to obtain.

I mean, what's wrong with 3 LT vaults?
1 vault with a 25 CP cost and the newest 5*s and 4*s
2 vaults with the older 5*s and 4*s at a lower cost of 20 CP
A bit like it used to be but keeping older and newer clearly seperate across the board and fighting dilution by splitting up the older ones in 2 seperate vaults.
As the character list grows, you can then just keep adding extra 'older' vaults and voila, future-proof system that will incite players, big and small, old and new, to spend money on the game.

Quebbster

Wumpushunter wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

Here's something to all the people complaining - take a good hard look at how much this will actually affect you. You notice the bad more than the good, so going by feel and your gut can be extremely deceptive. If you've tracked information, go back and review it. If you don't track the information, compare your roster now to two weeks ago, to four weeks ago.

That's what I did, and I'm a lot more calm about the whole thing. I can't offer you too much advice on your own situation, as it probably isn't the same as mine, but I'll give you this for free - unless you draw a lot of LTs it probably won't have a huge impact on you.

My roster was coming along nicely, I had added lots of characters and covers. No champions though in any tier and what did I see in pvp? 95% of the opponents were using vaulted characters. So don't tell me I like it now, don't tell it does effect me much, it ruins the game for me playing at a disadvantage. No amount of time or reflection will bring me a roster of old 4* champions.

So it's still very bad for me and will be until I can fight with the same amazing characters you probably have at level 270 and not weak new characters because the company wants more cash.

Of course you see a lot of the older fourstars still in PvP, people have had plenty of time to build them up and rely on them. The meta will shift though, but it will take time. The really good fourstars that are still in tokens (Carol, Medusa, etcetera) will now be covered much faster and will start showing up a lot more in PvP matches. This means you can focus your efforts on those great characters and it will be easier to stay competitive as you will not be weighed down by constantly getting covers for the older characters that are not that great. The Bonus Hero system lets you Cherry pick whatever older characters you wish to focus on anyway.

Crowl

Quebbster wrote:

The Bonus Hero system lets you Cherry pick whatever older characters you wish to focus on anyway.

If you only want one of them at a time and if you ever get any bonus heroes from the game it might.

Alsmir

Wumpushunter wrote:

GrimSkald wrote:

Here's something to all the people complaining - take a good hard look at how much this will actually affect you. You notice the bad more than the good, so going by feel and your gut can be extremely deceptive. If you've tracked information, go back and review it. If you don't track the information, compare your roster now to two weeks ago, to four weeks ago.

That's what I did, and I'm a lot more calm about the whole thing. I can't offer you too much advice on your own situation, as it probably isn't the same as mine, but I'll give you this for free - unless you draw a lot of LTs it probably won't have a huge impact on you.

My roster was coming along nicely, I had added lots of characters and covers. No champions though in any tier and what did I see in pvp? 95% of the opponents were using vaulted characters. So don't tell me I like it now, don't tell it does effect me much, it ruins the game for me playing at a disadvantage. No amount of time or reflection will bring me a roster of old 4* champions.

So it's still very bad for me and will be until I can fight with the same amazing characters you probably have at level 270 and not weak new characters because the company wants more cash.

I'm in similar position. I was slowly gathering covers for all 4* characters.
Currenly I have 0 covers just for Miles - out of old 4*.
At the same time I'm missing 4 new ones (soon 5) Venom, Blade, Carol, Medusa. It's not that I don't want them, but I can't even afford enough roster slots for them. Right now I need to hurry up to gather hp for both Coulson and 3* Hawkeye. I'm not sure if I'll make it.

The only latest 4* that currently interests me is Peggy and soon she will be out of tokens. Meanwhile there are 16 older 4* that I'd love to get more covers for. My entire 4* progression just died.
I'm still getting smashed by people using old boosted 4* in PvP, I'm still reading posts "(inesert old 4*) boosted champion carried me through this PvE event" and I have nothing.


Even if I decide to just go for it, I need to hoard enough tokens and ISO to immidiatelly pull enough covers to champ latest 4*. I don't want to get stuck in the endless loop where I get a latest 4* to <12 covers and he gets replaced with someone new.
But I hate hoarding! My roster makes close to no progress and the game just feels pointless. If I'm forced to hoard or quit, I will quit.

Magic

Quebbster wrote:

Of course you see a lot of the older fourstars still in PvP, people have had plenty of time to build them up and rely on them. The meta will shift though, but it will take time. The really good fourstars that are still in tokens (Carol, Medusa, etcetera) will now be covered much faster and will start showing up a lot more in PvP matches. This means you can focus your efforts on those great characters and it will be easier to stay competitive as you will not be weighed down by constantly getting covers for the older characters that are not that great. The Bonus Hero system lets you Cherry pick whatever older characters you wish to focus on anyway.

I am not expecting that much of a meta change. In the current pool you have 4-5 good characters (Peggy soon to be out, Carol, Medusa, Cage - the rest is arguable - maybe Coulson is good but I have too little experience). There will be weeks when none of them is boosted (or one at maximum). So you will still have to use the old champions in PvP. But lots of players won't as they will not have them covered.

Knowing that the characters will be rotated out I am back to what I hate - selling 4* covers. I have no intention of blocking my progress just to get iso to champion Riri because that's how the covers fell. No. This happened at the beginning of championing when I had to sell covers for the less wanted (and all not wanted) characters. Eventually, after all good were done I could start championing the second and third string. Not going to happen in this system. The second string will rotate before I get the iso for them.

GrimSkald

Well, when the implemented the system I set my top 5 4*s as my "bonus heroes." That is to say, the top 5 before Peggy, since Peggy is still in the tokens - Jean, Rulk, Iceman, IMHB, and Cyclops. I've drawn a handful of them since then, which is probably what I would have drawn otherwise (if not more,) so there's that. Of course, I haven't drawn other heroes such as Miles (I'm sorry, I really like Miles, I think he's a cool self-sufficient character,) 4Pun, Goddess Thor, etc - those characters I would kind of like to creep up but will go more slowly now.

The new vaulting has definitely allowed me to champ Kate (I was at 12 covers for a good long time,) and Luke. I've cover-maxed Gwenpool and am just waiting on Iso (another three days or so,) and am really close on Wasp, Medusa and Riri. The rest are getting there, but I'd be surprised if I didn't get at least one more there or really close when I splurge on LTs in a few weeks when Hawkeye goes in. I'm probably going to need to bank a lot of Iso once I champ Gwen.

As far as 3*s go, I just set everyone who isn't in the tokens as a BH. I may change that at some point, maybe take out the ones that are fed by my 2* farm at least, but 3*s are going to change my game particularly.

Anyway, we'll see how this works. I suspect it will work reasonably well, but I'll need more time to judge properly.

OneLastGambit

Magic wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

Of course you see a lot of the older fourstars still in PvP, people have had plenty of time to build them up and rely on them. The meta will shift though, but it will take time. The really good fourstars that are still in tokens (Carol, Medusa, etcetera) will now be covered much faster and will start showing up a lot more in PvP matches. This means you can focus your efforts on those great characters and it will be easier to stay competitive as you will not be weighed down by constantly getting covers for the older characters that are not that great. The Bonus Hero system lets you Cherry pick whatever older characters you wish to focus on anyway.

I am not expecting that much of a meta change. In the current pool you have 4-5 good characters (Peggy soon to be out, Carol, Medusa, Cage - the rest is arguable - maybe Coulson is good but I have too little experience). There will be weeks when none of them is boosted (or one at maximum). So you will still have to use the old champions in PvP. But lots of players won't as they will not have them covered.

Knowing that the characters will be rotated out I am back to what I hate - selling 4* covers. I have no intention of blocking my progress just to get iso to champion Riri because that's how the covers fell. No. This happened at the beginning of championing when I had to sell covers for the less wanted (and all not wanted) characters. Eventually, after all good were done I could start championing the second and third string. Not going to happen in this system. The second string will rotate before I get the iso for them.

The bolded part is perhaps one of the biggest unforeseen consequences of the system. Though I don't dislike vaulting (I hate dilution) a consequence of that is that when the boosted list reads... Iceman, Jean Grey, Rulk, Quake (for example) a very large portion of the player base will have no boosted 4* to use making them far less competitive and far more of a target for those of us who champed those characters before they were vaulted.

Of course the same argument can be said of anyone who was lucky (crazy) enough to get a new 4* champed right away but in that case the player made that choice, in the former the same cant be said.

A thought which had occurred to me recently which is that I have a few 5* with a usable amount of covers (Oml 10 covers, Phoenix 11 covers, Goblin 7 covers etc) whom I have never levelled as I have always enjoyed the diversity of the 4* tier. Now I find myself considering jumping to 5* then I can skip the rat race of new 4* which need to be turbo champed before they move out of rotation in favour of the much slower acquisition rate in 5* tier which means I can actually save up resources and not bother with the newer 4* at all.
I definitely never considered that before.

WelcomeDeath

Said it before, say it again. Vaulting wasnt well accepted when they did it with 3*, and it was frustrating seeing characters you couldnt cover. Why they thought it would go over well with a highee tier is beyond me. What *did* help the 3* transition in general was ddq, and increase on 3* odds in packs, a second 3* in pve progression, elite tokens, 2* farming (about a million times faster than 3* farming)....in short, giving more pulls and having them available in more places. The 4* tier is at the same point now....why not just add more pulls(bonus heroes can be part of that), more to progression in higher CL, more in rank rewards, etc. Actually, when is t100 in pvp going to give out 3* again? Highest CL possible, still not as good as the old system for pvp rewards except at the very top....but i digress. What was needed was more 4* covers in general, especially where theyre not king of the hill anymore.

Magic

I agree - the solution to the problem of dilution of characters was to follow the footsteps of the 3* solution. You know... the one that everybody is still raving about and it's been there for about 2 years - Deadpool Daily Quest. When DDQ started people stopped complaining about the dilution of 3* characters. Why? Because you had to wait at maximum ~40 days to get the next cover.

We are in full swing 5* tier. The 4* are great for players but they are not ultimate goal. You want to make the whales happy - fine. Keep the latest 12 in the "closed" packs. But give us daily 4* quest that grants a cover, not CP/Legendary Token. Every day! One cover!

One day it will be Electra, another it will be Rhulk. Everybody happy. This would still give people incentive to champion every 4* (as was a goal for me and many other players... now long forgotten) and would give everybody a real chance (not the joke of a chance with bonus heroes) to cover who they want. It can work the same as current DDQ - needing the required 4* to start the quest. Simple solution to many problems in this game.

But hey - let's vault the 75% of characters and see how newcomers enjoy being wiped out by championed RHulk.

Xzasxz

Brigby wrote:

Hi Everyone. Rest assured, we have certainly not forgotten about this topic. Having said that though, it is a complicated and multilayered one that requires time and attention in order to address it in the best way possible.

We're carefully going through all the feedback the community has provided, and we will be discussing this in depth with the development team. Once there is news I can announce, I'll be sure to update the community.

Funny thing is, that You brought it to game just like that ...

mega ghost

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Summer Glau wrote:

vaulting kinda got me po'ed because i only need one x-23 cover

i mean i set her as my only bonus 4, but that ain't happened yet

Well, I mean, you weren't very likely to have pulled her from the old legendary tokens in the last 9 days either, so... not much has really changed there. The new system DOES work in your favour in this case (The "I need 1 more cover for X-23" case), as you're more likely to get a bonus X-23 now than you were to get an X-23 before.

I'm in the same boat. One X-23 cover away. I set her as my bonus hero. Since this feature debuted, I've only gotten one 4* bonus hero, and it was her ... the one power I have at 5. So basically the feature has given me a bonus 1,000 ISO, once.

While I may not have pulled her final cover organically during this same time period without vaulting, I would have pulled at least one or a few of the other now-vaulted 4* characters that I have on the precipice of completion: my Punisher MAX is two covers away, my Nova is two covers away, my Ghost Rider is one cover away, my Iceman is three covers away, my War Machine is three covers away, my Chulk is three covers away, and my Quake is four covers away, and so on. This doesn't include the six vaulted 4* characters I have at 13 covers but are lower priority for me, whom I likely wouldn't champ until I had an extra cover dying on the vine so as to not waste it.

For all I know, the next time I receive a bonus hero it will go to waste as well, as it's not a reliable system of getting a final cover for a character with one or more abilities already at 5. At this rate it could be an entire year before this system let's me champ three or more of these 4* characters who were so close before vaulting.

sinnerjfl

Soooooo... its been 2 weeks since the bonus heroes & vaulting were implemented. Could we get an answer to the feedback now?

Khanwulf

Magic wrote:

I agree - the solution to the problem of dilution of characters was to follow the footsteps of the 3* solution. You know... the one that everybody is still raving about and it's been there for about 2 years - Deadpool Daily Quest. When DDQ started people stopped complaining about the dilution of 3* characters. Why? Because you had to wait at maximum ~40 days to get the next cover.

We are in full swing 5* tier. The 4* are great for players but they are not ultimate goal. You want to make the whales happy - fine. Keep the latest 12 in the "closed" packs. But give us daily 4* quest that grants a cover, not CP/Legendary Token. Every day! One cover!

One day it will be Electra, another it will be Rhulk. Everybody happy. This would still give people incentive to champion every 4* (as was a goal for me and many other players... now long forgotten) and would give everybody a real chance (not the joke of a chance with bonus heroes) to cover who they want. It can work the same as current DDQ - needing the required 4* to start the quest. Simple solution to many problems in this game.

But hey - let's vault the 75% of characters and see how newcomers enjoy being wiped out by championed RHulk.

A DDQ solution would work--so long as it is structured like the 3* nodes, and not a Clash of the Titans solo fight that requires a heavily covered 4* to have a chance.

I'd still contest that DDQ was not enough, and it's only been more recent additions such as Elite tokens and boosted 3* rates that has made the 2-3 transition tolerable. The 3-4 transition, let alone the 4* champ game or 4-5 transition, is in shambles and vaulting older characters is a torpedo below the waterline.

--Khanwulf

Brigby

sinnerjfl wrote:

Soooooo... its been 2 weeks since the bonus heroes & vaulting were implemented. Could we get an answer to the feedback now?

Sure thing! We just finished up another meeting with the development team earlier today, so I'd be happy to provide some insight.

The intent behind Bonus Heroes, and the removal of older 3 and 4-Star characters from packs, was to reduce pack dilution and provide a way for players to acquire newer characters faster. Having said that though, the team recognizes the community concern regarding older 3 and 4-Star progression, and has decided to start exploring several options to try and alleviate those concerns.

Keep in mind that this is still exploration, and nothing is 100% guaranteed, but here are some of the ideas that the team is investigating:

- A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.

OneLastGambit

Brigby wrote:

sinnerjfl wrote:

Soooooo... its been 2 weeks since the bonus heroes & vaulting were implemented. Could we get an answer to the feedback now?

Sure thing! We just finished up another meeting with the development team earlier today, so I'd be happy to provide some insight.

The intent behind Bonus Heroes, and the removal of older 3 and 4-Star characters from packs, was to reduce pack dilution and provide a way for players to acquire newer characters faster. Having said that though, the team recognizes the community concern regarding older 3 and 4-Star progression, and has decided to start exploring several options to try and alleviate those concerns.

Keep in mind that this is still exploration, and nothing is 100% guaranteed, but here are some of the ideas that the team is investigating:

- A new store containing older 3 and 4-Star characters - Rotations for removed 3 and 4-Star characters - A new vault containing older 3 and 4-Star characters

As you can tell, these ideas are sparse in detail, as the team is still figuring out which could work the best. Once we have more information to provide, we'll be sure to update the community.

Appreciate the info brigby