New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

So I decided to look at my roster and actually do the math to see just how royally screwed I am by the changes.

I will need the following:

700 hp, I have 100

This is honestly coming from a good place and I'm not trying to be rude, but is this a miscalculation or a typo? I don't think a 600 HP hole is worth complaining about.

4534752 iso assuming champing these characters which would totally screw up my roster and scaling forcing me to basically only be able to play these 12. That is also assuming I get these last 2 champed by then which is unlikely so I will likely need to collect even more iso. How the hell am I supposed to put that kind of iso together?

Doing the math, it appears you believe you're expected to champion all twelve of the non-vaulted four stars. That's not really a fair comparison since you could easily say that you'd have to champion all 40+ of the current 4-stars if there wasn't any vaulting. Looking at the 4-star transition from afar is always messy and the numbers will always seem overwhelming. This is a problem that isn't unique to the bonus heroes.

This means that if I redeem any kind of legendary there is a 58.33% change it will be completely useless unless until I can put together the hp to roster it. Again with less resources coming in. That is assuming that I pull a 4*. Pull a 5* and then I am royally screwed as I only have 1, black bolt that is in classics. If I pull from classics what are the odds that I pull him and not someone else and get put in an even bigger HP crunch?

This was always the case. In the old system you were expected to roster all 4-stars as well. This is not a new obstacle. In fact, you now only have to worry about 12 4-star to potentially roster rather than the 40+ it used to be so in some ways it's safer to pull LRs if you have the 12 current characters already rostered.

Do you have a link to your roster? I'd be happy to provide help/strategy with this new system. It changes things but not necessarily for the worst.

You're right, that was a typo, I need 7000 hp. That will take forever to do. Even without losing all the champ rewards from losing the unworthy characters that would take so long even more will rotate out causing me to need more hp.

I did say assuming champing them. Realistically under the new system odds are I will never be able to build up the resources to champ any 4*'s, at least not in a way that wouldn't totally screw up my roster or scaling. In the old system I could slowly build up my 4* roster and start champing when it sense down the line. With the new system virtually all I am going to get is the latest 12 so if I don't try to champ them there is nothing to do with my roster.

Don't have my roster updated online and not going to waste the time now that it's clear I'm not wanted in the game. I have every 2 and 3 star, all 3 star champed except for thanos and blade. I have all but 15 4* rostered but poorly covered I'm 1-2 rotations away from any hope of progression being a complete joke.

Nellobee

How are new players ever supposed to beat CotT in the future with this change?

GurlBYE

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

So I decided to look at my roster and actually do the math to see just how royally screwed I am by the changes.

I will need the following:

700 hp, I have 100

This is honestly coming from a good place and I'm not trying to be rude, but is this a miscalculation or a typo? I don't think a 600 HP hole is worth complaining about.

Everyone in this game is not in the same place. Perspective is necessary before you respond to criticism. I have 5000 HP, but I spend it fast then I've earned it. Roster slots cost A LOT, you don't know if he's just bought slots for a 2 farm, a new 4, or because of the ddq changes.

If HP were really a free flowing fountain do you not think they'd have not changed that considering it's the most important resource to actually roster characters?

GurlBYE

Nellobee wrote:

How are new players ever supposed to beat CotT in the future with this change?

I don't think that was considered, and this is a pretty funny change following the change to DDQ.

That extra taco and 2 CP is for full rosters only.

DesertTortoise

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I have every 2 and 3 star, all 3 star champed except for thanos and blade. I have all but 15 4* rostered but poorly covered I'm 1-2 rotations away from any hope of progression being a complete joke.

The 4-star transition is a tough one (I'm just getting started, I have 11 champed 4-stars), but you had a tremendous amount of resources you'd need to get in order before you transitioned well before these bonus changes. You really need to roster all 25 of the 4-stars you don't have, regardless of this change. It depends on your roster, but this change could actually be good for you (and the HP you need) if you approach it a certain way. It's very roster dependent, of course, but I wouldn't feel too left behind just yet.

Quebbster

Nellobee wrote:

How are new players ever supposed to beat CotT in the future with this change?

Selective use of the bonus hero feature to build one fourstar up at a time. It is an interesting dichotomy though since the most recent fourstars do not get a Crash until they have been awarded a second time in PvE. Gwenpool, Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Wasp and Peggy Carter all pass that test, but the more recent fourstars may be excluded from the next cycle - I am specifically looking at Agent Coulson who should be at the start of the list. Captain Marvel may be tricky to fit in too. Heck, Agent Venom may not have a second reward Before the cycle restarts soon.

BoyWonder1914

- Immediately made older people that I have trouble acquiring my favorites (Nova, Big Pun, Hulkbuster, Teen Jean, Star Lord, Ant-Man)
- Opened a classic for 20 CP since I have it to burn
- Medusa, with a bonus Nova

If I can look forward to getting this bonus cover EVERY time I open a classic or latest, then by all means I welcome this change. Because for someone who has a lot of CP to burn, but it is still wary of blowing 120 for a single specific cover, this definitely helps alleviate a lot of that risk by just making that person a favorite. The less favorite's you have, you're essentially guaranteeing your odds of pulling that specific character as bonus.

However, these bonus covers still have colors.....so you're at no less of a risk of pulling a bonus cover that ends up being unusable. Also, I'm not really seeing the sense in taking this feature away from vaults. Vaults already have a limited selection of characters, which is what you've essentially gone and done with the Classic/Latest stores - you've changed them from all-containing stores (as long as 4*s are concerned anyway) into limited vaults with only the 12 latest. Good idea overall, it will just need some tweaking with the next patch. Lord knows I NEEDED increased odds at pulling Peggy, so I have multiple silver linings in this regardless.

GurlBYE

BoyWonder1914 wrote:

- Immediately made older people that I have trouble acquiring my favorites (Nova, Big Pun, Hulkbuster, Teen Jean, Star Lord, Ant-Man)
- Opened a classic for 20 CP since I have it to burn
- Medusa, with a bonus Nova

If I can look forward to getting this bonus cover EVERY time I open a classic or latest, then by all means I welcome this change. Because for someone who has a lot of CP to burn, but it is still wary of blowing 120 for a single specific cover, this definitely helps alleviate a lot of that risk by just making that person a favorite. The less favorite's you have, you're essentially guaranteeing your odds of pulling that specific character as bonus.

However, these bonus covers still have colors.....so you're at no less of a risk of pulling a bonus cover that ends up being unusable. Also, I'm not really seeing the sense in taking this feature away from vaults. Vaults already have a limited selection of characters, which is what you've essentially gone and done with the Classic/Latest stores - you've changed them from all-containing stores (as long as 4*s are concerned anyway) into limited vaults with only the 12 latest. Good idea overall, it will just need some tweaking with the next patch. Lord knows I NEEDED increased odds at pulling Peggy, so I have multiple silver linings in this regardless.

That would be great, unfortunately it's a 5% chance per pull.

DesertTortoise

GurlBYE wrote:

Everyone in this game is not in the same place. Perspective is necessary before you respond to criticism. I have 5000 HP, but I spend it fast then I've earned it. Roster slots cost A LOT, you don't know if he's just bought slots for a 2 farm, a new 4, or because of the ddq changes.

If HP were really a free flowing fountain do you not think they'd have not changed that considering it's the most important resource to actually roster characters?

I was not attempting to criticize. He did clarify that he meant 7,000 HP, which is a significant amount, rather than 700 HP and that he was ready for the 4-star transition (which I'm just getting through) so I didn't think complaining about a necessary 600 HP gain was a big problem. As I clarified in my other post, I don't fully see how this change would make the demands of entering the 4-star realm that much more difficult. You were expected to have every 4-star rostered and this isn't any more resource demanding than that, but now it's just more difficult to roster every 4-star (which is a very valid criticism).

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I have every 2 and 3 star, all 3 star champed except for thanos and blade. I have all but 15 4* rostered but poorly covered I'm 1-2 rotations away from any hope of progression being a complete joke.

The 4-star transition is a tough one (I'm just getting started, I have 11 champed 4-stars), but you had a tremendous amount of resources you'd need to get in order before you transitioned well before these bonus changes. You really need to roster all 25 of the 4-stars you don't have, regardless of this change. It depends on your roster, but this change could actually be good for you (and the HP you need) if you approach it a certain way. It's very roster dependent, of course, but I wouldn't feel too left behind just yet.

How can I not feel left behind? Without loosing the champ levels on my 3*'s I have it would probably take me 6 months to put together the 7000+ hp I would need. By then I'll need more due to rotations. What am I supposed to do, stagnate my roster for a year so I can have the resources to actually roster the characters that are actually in the packs? Again that is assuming I don't draw 5's which will only strain the roster even more. With the old system there were so many that I could pull that were already rostered that the odds of not being in a crunch were no where near as bad. I could take my time developing my roster as nothing was going to go away. Hell, if the time wasn't limited on the chosen 12 it would even be an issue, but now I am supposed to try and roster and level characters that will be out of rotation long before I can get anywhere with them. Yes, I am left behind, period.

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

Everyone in this game is not in the same place. Perspective is necessary before you respond to criticism. I have 5000 HP, but I spend it fast then I've earned it. Roster slots cost A LOT, you don't know if he's just bought slots for a 2 farm, a new 4, or because of the ddq changes.

If HP were really a free flowing fountain do you not think they'd have not changed that considering it's the most important resource to actually roster characters?

I was not attempting to criticize. He did clarify that he meant 7,000 HP, which is a significant amount, rather than 700 HP and that he was ready for the 4-star transition (which I'm just getting through) so I didn't think complaining about a necessary 600 HP gain was a big problem. As I clarified in my other post, I don't fully see how this change would make the demands of entering the 4-star realm that much more difficult. You were expected to have every 4-star rostered and this isn't any more resource demanding than that, but now it's just more difficult to roster every 4-star (which is a very valid criticism).

The thing is that it's not the amount of resources that is the problem, but the ticking clock that is now there. I have no problem with taking my time with the 4* tier. There is nothing to the game other than characters so I think it's foolish to rush to have everything. The problem is that now that everything is available for a limited time I'll never have the time to put the resources together to keep up. By the time I put together 7000 hp it will be way more as more characters will rotate. I'm likely to pull 5* that will stretch that even further. If I can't beat the clock and get a character rosters, covered, leveled and champed by the time that clock ticks out, forget it.

smkspy

I'm not liking the ticking clock either. This feature just premiered yesterday and in a little over a week from now we'll lose two of the 12 currently in rotation.

Tatercat

Right now I’m okay with the vaulting of older 4*’s. My current plan was go through about 5-6 of the mid to low tier 4*’s (Fury, Elektra, Falcap, etc) and champ them to get them out of the way and not keep selling their covers all the time. But that was looking like at least 90 days worth of drudgery, grinding every event in order “beat the clock”, just to champ several characters I wasn’t ever planning to use much. This change no longer means I have to do that. Those covers will still be available in event vaults or as rewards, but now I don’t have to worry about them popping up randomly. IF I need them I can get them, or just avoid them (in some cases)

To be honest, the 4* pool was so deep, I rarely ever was getting the covers I needed for the characters I wanted anyway. Those I always got from aiming for them specifically as a reward or a vault or whatever. (or even spending CP). So this doesn’t change my playing too much, other than I’ll likely have to start hoarding to make sure I’m ready when I get too much of one those twelve 4*’s now.

I’m almost finished champing Drax for the 2 extra covers of him, then I’ll have a Spider Gwen and a Falcap in my queue. I’ll have enough time to champ one of them, not both, but I’m maybe considering just selling them both, rebuild my depleted 2* farm and then start leveling my Spiderwoman, the only maxed covered 4* in that twelve who isn’t already champed. I’ll see how it goes.

One thing I wish they had done with the 4*’s in the LT’s is something I’d been wanting for a while: Separate them by LT type. Instead of just having the latest 5*’s segregated by Latest and Classic, do the same for 4*’s. Put the current 12 in the Latest LT’s (and the Heroics token too I guess), and the all the old 4*’s go into the Classic LT’s (no new 12 at all in here). That way you’ve got your choice of where you want to target your cp. There would be an issue with the Classic 4* pool growing over time, but you can curate that by having a rotating roster of those 4*’s, say 20 of them at a time, changing out each season. If the one you want isn’t in there right now, you save the CP for next season. Something along those lines to handle the non-stop growth of the 4* characters.

DesertTortoise

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

How can I not feel left behind? Without loosing the champ levels on my 3*'s I have it would probably take me 6 months to put together the 7000+ hp I would need. By then I'll need more due to rotations. What am I supposed to do, stagnate my roster for a year so I can have the resources to actually roster the characters that are actually in the packs?

Where do the majority of your 3-star covers come from? DDQ? Progression? Placement? Those are all still going to happen. I don't believe I understand this criticism. Your 3-star flow shouldn't really change significantly, it'll probably get better since you can pull bonus heroes on occasion from tokens.

Again that is assuming I don't draw 5's which will only strain the roster even more. With the old system there were so many that I could pull that were already rostered that the odds of not being in a crunch were no where near as bad. I could take my time developing my roster as nothing was going to go away. Hell, if the time wasn't limited on the chosen 12 it would even be an issue, but now I am supposed to try and roster and level characters that will be out of rotation long before I can get anywhere with them. Yes, I am left behind, period.

But you only have 15 4-stars rostered. That's less than half of them and worse yet once you include 5-stars (which also isn't new). I do understand this is a tough transition but I don't see any problems that are being introduced to you that weren't a problem before this. If anything, you have less roster spots you have to open since there's only 12 4-stars that you'll get from tokens since you can favorite a good 4-star you have now.

I think there's problems with this system like what GurlBYE agreed with on the Clash rostering, but I think you're in a situation where you may have benefited more than you think.

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

How can I not feel left behind? Without loosing the champ levels on my 3*'s I have it would probably take me 6 months to put together the 7000+ hp I would need. By then I'll need more due to rotations. What am I supposed to do, stagnate my roster for a year so I can have the resources to actually roster the characters that are actually in the packs?

Where do the majority of your 3-star covers come from? DDQ? Progression? Placement? Those are all still going to happen. I don't believe I understand this criticism. Your 3-star flow shouldn't really change significantly, it'll probably get better since you can pull bonus heroes on occasion from tokens.

Again that is assuming I don't draw 5's which will only strain the roster even more. With the old system there were so many that I could pull that were already rostered that the odds of not being in a crunch were no where near as bad. I could take my time developing my roster as nothing was going to go away. Hell, if the time wasn't limited on the chosen 12 it would even be an issue, but now I am supposed to try and roster and level characters that will be out of rotation long before I can get anywhere with them. Yes, I am left behind, period.

But you only have 15 4-stars rostered. That's less than half of them and worse yet once you include 5-stars (which also isn't new). I do understand this is a tough transition but I don't see any problems that are being introduced to you that weren't a problem before this. If anything, you have less roster spots you have to open since there's only 12 4-stars that you'll get from tokens since you can favorite a good 4-star you have now.

I think there's problems with this system like what GurlBYE agreed with on the Clash rostering, but I think you're in a situation where you may have benefited more than you think.

3* come from all over. DDQ obviously. I usually get one from PVE. Otherwise pretty much all come from token pulls. I usually get the most from elite tokens. As long as over half the characters are vaulted an unavailable in tokens I am not pulling any tokens. It's just going to unbalance my roster when I can only level less than half of it.

GurlBYE

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

How can I not feel left behind? Without loosing the champ levels on my 3*'s I have it would probably take me 6 months to put together the 7000+ hp I would need. By then I'll need more due to rotations. What am I supposed to do, stagnate my roster for a year so I can have the resources to actually roster the characters that are actually in the packs?

Where do the majority of your 3-star covers come from? DDQ? Progression? Placement? Those are all still going to happen. I don't believe I understand this criticism. Your 3-star flow shouldn't really change significantly, it'll probably get better since you can pull bonus heroes on occasion from tokens.

Again that is assuming I don't draw 5's which will only strain the roster even more. With the old system there were so many that I could pull that were already rostered that the odds of not being in a crunch were no where near as bad. I could take my time developing my roster as nothing was going to go away. Hell, if the time wasn't limited on the chosen 12 it would even be an issue, but now I am supposed to try and roster and level characters that will be out of rotation long before I can get anywhere with them. Yes, I am left behind, period.

But you only have 15 4-stars rostered. That's less than half of them and worse yet once you include 5-stars (which also isn't new). I do understand this is a tough transition but I don't see any problems that are being introduced to you that weren't a problem before this. If anything, you have less roster spots you have to open since there's only 12 4-stars that you'll get from tokens since you can favorite a good 4-star you have now.

I think there's problems with this system like what GurlBYE agreed with on the Clash rostering, but I think you're in a situation where you may have benefited more than you think.

Half the 3's are out. Also 3's came most frequently (for me personally) from heroics and elite considering how frequently we receive those token types.
DDQ is actually one of the worst ways to go after a 3, especially if you don't have that 3 for the day.

Now newer players also have to sit 20 of the 40 out unless they place well, even with pve and pvp thats a character appearing twice every 40 events. Once as progression once as placement.

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

How can I not feel left behind? Without loosing the champ levels on my 3*'s I have it would probably take me 6 months to put together the 7000+ hp I would need. By then I'll need more due to rotations. What am I supposed to do, stagnate my roster for a year so I can have the resources to actually roster the characters that are actually in the packs?

Where do the majority of your 3-star covers come from? DDQ? Progression? Placement? Those are all still going to happen. I don't believe I understand this criticism. Your 3-star flow shouldn't really change significantly, it'll probably get better since you can pull bonus heroes on occasion from tokens.

Again that is assuming I don't draw 5's which will only strain the roster even more. With the old system there were so many that I could pull that were already rostered that the odds of not being in a crunch were no where near as bad. I could take my time developing my roster as nothing was going to go away. Hell, if the time wasn't limited on the chosen 12 it would even be an issue, but now I am supposed to try and roster and level characters that will be out of rotation long before I can get anywhere with them. Yes, I am left behind, period.

But you only have 15 4-stars rostered. That's less than half of them and worse yet once you include 5-stars (which also isn't new). I do understand this is a tough transition but I don't see any problems that are being introduced to you that weren't a problem before this. If anything, you have less roster spots you have to open since there's only 12 4-stars that you'll get from tokens since you can favorite a good 4-star you have now.

I think there's problems with this system like what GurlBYE agreed with on the Clash rostering, but I think you're in a situation where you may have benefited more than you think.

I have a lot more than 15 rostered, I have all but 15 rostered. At least 7 of those 15 I am missing will be in rotation when I finish with the 3's.

fmftint

This change is bad to game breaking for everyone, it invalidates every 4 champion that is not
1: One of the most recent 12, and
2: A favorite

@5% if you open 100 LTs/month it will take 20 months to level ONE 4 from 270-370, compounded each time you split your faves

Everyone else is a complete iso write off. Placement, progression, vaults, if your lucky you'll see 3-4 covers/ YEAR for characters out of the draw pool

DesertTortoise

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

3* come from all over. DDQ obviously. I usually get one from PVE. Otherwise pretty much all come from token pulls. I usually get the most from elite tokens. As long as over half the characters are vaulted an unavailable in tokens I am not pulling any tokens. It's just going to unbalance my roster when I can only level less than half of it.

Not to get into semantics, but the 20 in the pool are pretty much the only 3-stars worth using for the most part anyhow. You're going to have a pretty unbalanced roster moving forward (my highest 3-star is 202, my lowest 3-star excluding the newest ones was 173). You can set your favorite 3-stars to the ones that are lagging behind the most now to sort of offset that if you wish.

GurlBYE wrote:

DDQ is actually one of the worst ways to go after a 3, especially if you don't have that 3 for the day.

Now newer players also have to sit 20 of the 40 out unless they place well, even with pve and pvp thats a character appearing twice every 40 events. Once as progression once as placement.

He has most of his 3-stars champed. I agree DDQ is a tough way of gathering 3-stars but once you have them all it's a great resource to farm champion rewards, I'm sure we all agree on that. I think this hits people entering the 3-star tier harder than it does for those hitting the 4-star tier.

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I have a lot more than 15 rostered, I have all but 15 rostered. At least 7 of those 15 I am missing will be in rotation when I finish with the 3's.

Ah, I misread and that's a much clearer picture of your complaints. I totally see how that's a problem now. You are in a situation where you basically had to wait to make a pull until you had the HP to roster a new character, and that's still the case, but now those pulls are more likely to result in a new character you'd have to roster. The goal is always the same though, you were going to have to roster all 4-stars one way or another but this does put you in a spot where your HP woes are magnified for sure.

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

3* come from all over. DDQ obviously. I usually get one from PVE. Otherwise pretty much all come from token pulls. I usually get the most from elite tokens. As long as over half the characters are vaulted an unavailable in tokens I am not pulling any tokens. It's just going to unbalance my roster when I can only level less than half of it.

Not to get into semantics, but the 20 in the pool are pretty much the only 3-stars worth using for the most part anyhow. You're going to have a pretty unbalanced roster moving forward (my highest 3-star is 202, my lowest 3-star excluding the newest ones was 173). You can set your favorite 3-stars to the ones that are lagging behind the most now to sort of offset that if you wish.

GurlBYE wrote:

DDQ is actually one of the worst ways to go after a 3, especially if you don't have that 3 for the day.

Now newer players also have to sit 20 of the 40 out unless they place well, even with pve and pvp thats a character appearing twice every 40 events. Once as progression once as placement.

He has most of his 3-stars champed. I agree DDQ is a tough way of gathering 3-stars but once you have them all it's a great resource to farm champion rewards, I'm sure we all agree on that. I think this hits people entering the 3-star tier harder than it does for those hitting the 4-star tier.

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I have a lot more than 15 rostered, I have all but 15 rostered. At least 7 of those 15 I am missing will be in rotation when I finish with the 3's.

Ah, I misread and that's a much clearer picture of your complaints. I totally see how that's a problem now. You are in a situation where you basically had to wait to make a pull until you had the HP to roster a new character, and that's still the case, but now those pulls are more likely to result in a new character you'd have to roster. The goal is always the same though, you were going to have to roster all 4-stars one way or another but this does put you in a spot where your HP woes are magnified for sure.

Great, thank you for tell me I am wrong for playing the characters I want to play instead of the ones deemed worthy be the players. Sorry, some of us do want to use all of the characters. A number of the vaulted characters are ones I actually use on a near daily basis. People need to stop trying to tell everyone how to play the game. Some of us want to get champ rewards for all of the characters we have champed. Sorry that I don't like that the last year I spent playing this game was a complete waste because I focused on champing my 3* characters. I set every character vaulted as a favorite on the 3* tier to try and counter the stupid coming from the dev team. Doesn't matter as I won't pull any tokens as long as they are intentionally broken. I think it's down right insulting that they are taking away characters I spent so much time champing.

Definitely magnified, and it will only get worse in time and with every 5* pull. Especially with this change decreasing champ rewards making it tougher to build up those resources.