New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

whycantwesyncpc

zulux21 wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

With the 4*'s why not split them like they do with the 5*? Why not let use just pick the ones to favorite as the bonuses alone would still help people get what they want if they want specific ones. Why limit token to only the 12 most recent only? Simple, this forces new character on you on a regular basis, plain and simple. It's nice you don't have a problem getting the hp. I'm a casual player too and I do have trouble. So I guess I'm not worthy of pulling tokens

Why split the 3 stars at all? They've added what, 2 in the last 2 years? Makes no sense other then to reduce champ rewards, which reduces 4* covers and hp's gained. Oh, making it tougher to keep up. Fork up the cash or get lost.

really the 5* pool is just as much screwed up as the 4 star pool. with the low odds to get a 5* getting a classic 5* covered was going to be basically impossible anymore. the new way will help make sure you can at least slowly progress a 5* of your choosing. as for why limit it to 12.... well that means that character will be featured for about 6 months. as a casual player this should make you super happy as that is a good amount of time to get some pulls in. you can get what 10-20 pulls from the clash, and like 20 pulls from CP giving you a decent chance of getting at least one of each cover for the character. it's to allow people to actually build up new characters in a timely manor instead of taking forever.

and yes as a casual player you either have to choose to spend HP to buy roster slots or spend it on pulling tokens, you aren't worthy to be able to do both since you are a casual player.

as for why split the 3*s. I imagine that we are going to see a few more 3* added this year, likely paired up with some more 5* versions as they tend to go over fairly well. thus they are just prepping for that.

I don't see how limiting the 3* pool reduces champ rewards though. it allows you to go through those 20 3* easier, and build up some high level 3* more quickly. you get champ rewards for all of those, and if you reach max level on them you can always just start farming them like 2* *shrugs*

I am not saying the change is perfect, but in general it seems to be a step in the right direction.

Again, another person that doesn't seem to get the reality that a lot of us face. 10-20 pulls from clash? The only character I've ever stood a chance with is prof x due to his invisibility. I'm not getting 10-20 pulls. I've got like 30 cp on my account, and my only sources are 2 from the new ddq if I have the right characters and maybe 5 from pve and champ rewards, which will be less with over half the pool being unworthy and locked away. Not getting much from that. I've got **** luck, so odds are any pulls I do make are going to be for someone I don't particularly want or don't have a roster spot for.

I don't spend HP on token pulls with the only exception being an especially great vault like the last anniversary vault.

Yes, allows me to go through 20 3* characters faster while virtually killing any progress with the other 22. Want to use them? Oh, they are going to suck because my roster is now all screwed up because I can't level evenly at all. Great, even more screwed up scaling.

I still don't get, why do we have to loose over half the characters to give someone an extra shot at getting a 5* cover? Makes no sense other than as a cash grab, because there are multiple ways this could have been done competently without being a big FU to a sizeable portion of the player base. Bonus heros was clearly put in to make vaulting more than half the roster palatable to enough people to keep a full scale riot from happened. The general idea of working on what can be pulled and what you get is a good idea, but the implementation was done the dumbest way humanly possible. That's because it wasn't for the players or the game, but pure greed.

zulux21

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Again, another person that doesn't seem to get the reality that a lot of us face. 10-20 pulls from clash? The only character I've ever stood a chance with is prof x due to his invisibility. I'm not getting 10-20 pulls. I've got like 30 cp on my account, and my only sources are 2 from the new ddq if I have the right characters and maybe 5 from pve and champ rewards, which will be less with over half the pool being unworthy and locked away. Not getting much from that. I've got **** luck, so odds are any pulls I do make are going to be for someone I don't particularly want or don't have a roster spot for.

I don't spend HP on token pulls with the only exception being an especially great vault like the last anniversary vault.

Yes, allows me to go through 20 3* characters faster while virtually killing any progress with the other 22. Want to use them? Oh, they are going to suck because my roster is now all screwed up because I can't level evenly at all. Great, even more screwed up scaling.

I still don't get, why do we have to loose over half the characters to give someone an extra shot at getting a 5* cover? Makes no sense other than as a cash grab, because there are multiple ways this could have been done competently without being a big FU to a sizeable portion of the player base. Bonus heros was clearly put in to make vaulting more than half the roster palatable to enough people to keep a full scale riot from happened. The general idea of working on what can be pulled and what you get is a good idea, but the implementation was done the dumbest way humanly possible. That's because it wasn't for the players or the game, but pure greed.

ah so you are where I was at about a year ago in regards to 4 stars.
im on day 1153 so I often forget to take into account players about a year behind, progress is still a lot quicker now than it used to be to 4 star land.

but yeah you won't get them from the clash but you still still get the 2cp on a good number of days as long as you have the characters, and you also will get CP from 2/3 star champ levels and from log in rewards.

the point being you are a perfect person for this change to help. yes it sucks that it will be harder for you to get the older characters, but really you were never going to be able to finish them anyways given how rare you pull a 4 star and how rare it was to get any given character. with the change you might actually get some useable new 4* that can win their clash when it is their turn and help you move fully into 4*.

I mean if you don't have many usable 4* this is way better as it will help you build up some actual 4* much quicker than the previous system. I remember when I could barely do the clash, but since CP was introduced and I have had time to pull from that I built up things a decent amount. though there will be a huge disconnect between the clash and characters now though that they will need to address. as a focus on new characters goes way against how the clashes currently work.

I mean to be fair it's not like characters are being removed from vaults, so you can always get them from tacos and what not.

as I said, the new system isn't without issue, but it's not nearly as horrible as some of you are trying to make it out to be. we will also have to see what else they have to offer, as the last time they made a huge change like this they had a few other changes that same month as well.

Tintaiwan

I was excited to about the bonus heroes at first. Finally a way to target a hero you have wanted to champion or level up. Instead of just random luck.

But by removing the older heroes from the token you make it harder to level them up.

only finding them in a vault means, if they are there, a 1 in 300 chance for a four star. OR 1/300 for some stars or maybe 5/300 (1/60)

but you say you would have a 1/20 in of pulling a bonus hero with our new system. Well, if I have to split that between >30 retired 4 stars >20 retired 3 stars then that makes the odds 1/20 times 1/50 or about 1/100.

It really does not seem to up the odds at all of getting what you want are really much better.

for now reducing my review score in itunes store. encouraging others to do the same

monsieurmojo

Terrific system. I've now pulled 50 tokens (40 classic or latest) today with chances at 3* characters or higher, and not. one. bonus.

But hey... the upside here is that Riri is max covered now!

carrion_pigeons

Largely a good change, including the vaulting. 4*s should cycle through LTs fast enough to not be a gigantic imbalance for some characters over others. Long term, this change will make PvP kinda weird, in that old characters will fade out of use, instead of entrench themselves the way it works now. Seems like a nice thing to look forward to, since it will make PvP a lot more diverse.

It doesn't work super well with the championing system, though. It makes it much easier to cover newer characters, but correspondingly makes it harder to get champ levels. That's going to have some major consequences on the economy of the game, some good and some bad.

The list of 3*s seems like it isn't actually based on age. Loki and Spider-Man are some of the oldest 3*s in the game, and Bullseye is the third most recent, and is missing. Is it based on general popularity? I can see Spider-Man being popular even if he isn't especially good. Does this mean reduced chances for vaulted characters to get reworks? No Punisher buff imminent, I guess? On the other hand, does this mean Spidey *is* likely to get buffed?

My Magneto and Thor (my two highest level 3*s) are kinda sad that they'll be falling behind now. But I guess whatever. More KK and Cyclops levels are ultimately probably more useful. I may be singing a different toon if we ever get to the point where several of the non-vaulted 3*s are getting maxchamped and I still have multiple champed characters with no potential at all to get champ covers. It would be nice if favorite characters would be added to the pool of regular pulls as well as bonus pools. Seems like that would solve a lot of problems.

carlito666

I choose 4* cpt marvel needed 4 covers and got them all yesterday. time to champ her

hodayathink

carrion pigeons wrote:

My Magneto and Thor (my two highest level 3*s) are kinda sad that they'll be falling behind now. But I guess whatever. More KK and Cyclops levels are ultimately probably more useful. I may be singing a different toon if we ever get to the point where several of the non-vaulted 3*s are getting maxchamped and I still have multiple champed characters with no potential at all to get champ covers. It would be nice if favorite characters would be added to the pool of regular pulls as well as bonus pools. Seems like that would solve a lot of problems.

Magneto and Thor probably won't fall very behind as long as you're running a 2 star farm, since they both have feeders. Of my top 10 covered 3*, 8 of them are fed ones (the ones that aren't are Gamora and SWitch). And tied for 12th, one level are Storm and Hulk (also fed). And after that is Cap Marvel.

Nick441234

DayvBang wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

They definitely implied that the 3* lineup would be changing over time.

The implication for 4* characters, however, is that the oldest will be displaced as the new ones go in and it will for the foreseeable future contain only the 12 latest 4* at any given time.

It's a bad move. If they don't walk this back in the next couple of days, I'm probably done. I wish I hadn't renewed VIP this morning.

We all know what D3 are like for not giving us all the required information though.

It would make no sense to not rotate them all as it would stop championing dead.

qandols

TL; DR Today I earned a Standard Token. I opened it and to my surprise it was 3* BWGS AND a bonus IF. That's great! But does it mean I will never have to see 1* from standards anymore?

sinnerjfl

nick_chicane wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

They definitely implied that the 3* lineup would be changing over time.

The implication for 4* characters, however, is that the oldest will be displaced as the new ones go in and it will for the foreseeable future contain only the 12 latest 4* at any given time.

It's a bad move. If they don't walk this back in the next couple of days, I'm probably done. I wish I hadn't renewed VIP this morning.

We all know what D3 are like for not giving us all the required information though.

It would make no sense to not rotate them all as it would stop championing dead.

And that might be one of their goals when you think about it. Really, ask yourself, what is the point of vaulting 4*'s?
How does it help anyone but the devs at slowing down championning because its probably giving too many rewards too quickly to their
liking.

This is not bonus heroes. This is vaulting and slowing down championning. But heh, have an insignificant bonus feature
to swallow this very bitter pill.

El Satanno

Wow, 19 pages. Took me a long time to read all that, but it does seem that the Upset People are very much a larger group than the Not Upset People. I'm on Team Upset People.

I've dumped heaps and heaps of Iso into the worst 4* out there, just because the champ rewards will eventually make it worth the investment. For the past two seasons, I managed to only sell off about 3 covers out of over 1500 pulled from tokens. So much goodness flowed from those champions and it felt good to get them all. I'm probably among a very small percentage of the population of this game to celebrate an Elektra cover popping up! This vaulting causes me stress for several big reasons. I'm a little loathe to repeat what's been said earlier in this thread, but I want to vent and continue to focus the spotlight on the detriment here. Here comes a damn wall of text! (And I bet you I won't even need to be moderated, greenies!)

Firstly, I can pretty much kiss champ rewards from about 30 of those characters goodbye. I have most of the Blessed 12 champed already, but that number will rapidly dwindle as they inevitably continue to churn out more 4*s. I guess it's kinda neat that I can focus on however many (although it looks like having more than one at a time as a favorite is a loser's gambit) as Bonus Heroes. However that simply highlights the waste of investing in the non-favorite characters. Yes, I will eventually hit 370 for one character. How long will that take? In the meantime I'll be getting nothing but the rinky-dink rewards from the slew of barely-champed newbies.

And that segues neatly into the next problem I have here: Maybe some people like the increased chances to get new 4*s championed. But how often will they be worth anything to you? Assuming the power creep doesn't start to get out of hand, a game-changer like Peggy Carter is rare. So you can blow all your Iso on mediocre characters, and then enjoy the anemic champion rewards that they spit out in the short window that they remain Blessed 12. Great. After that, you're pretty much not getting anything out of them again.

Oh, and what if you don't manage to get the right combination of 13 covers while they're Blessed 12? Well, if they aren't Peggy-caliber or higher, it's pretty much never going to happen. Why on earth would you sacrifice getting better rewards out of your existing champs to finish a character of dubious value? Under this scheme, I predict the rosters of the future will be an ever-increasing number of fully-covered but completely unleveled characters as people dedicate all their resources to championing the odd character of greatest value and precisely one character In The Abyss. All the new characters that never get finished or championed will never, ever get there. Sounds a lot like fail to me.

Good thing there's no mechanism in place to address the dreaded 6th Cover Syndrome, either. My 1/3/5 Medusa is looking at me with tears in her eyes. She's got that little gold heart, but I'd wager it'll be breaking as I sell even more of those purple covers. (2 of the covers I had to sell off were Medusa purple, for reference.) I reckon that that's something else what's gonna come of this. Increased chances to pull the Blessed 12 with the streaky-**** tendencies of RNGesus means you'd better get ready for a lot of complaint threads about the 0/5/25 Coulsons, 1/30/2 Mordos, and what have you. Fun times.

And last, but certainly not least, my personal favorite: 5* Hell. I've mentioned in plenty of places before how much I hate the 5* tier. Nothing changing here means it still sucks ****. Thanks for that.

Yoik

Overall I like the changes inc the extra rewards for 7 day events. I totally understand most people’s points on this bonus feature. I think it has been made in good faith but is perhaps a little off the mark. It is good for game longevity which perhaps was an incidental bonus for D3 when they instigated all these changes.

For most people it seems this is a bit of the proverbial Richard the Third Sandwich.

That being said. Something im confused on. I need 1 more cover for Drax and Spider Gwen before I can make them Champs. They are not part of the listing Brigby has made. I automatically made these 2 toon's 2 of my bonus choices. When and how will these drop if they are not part of the main token pool?

Obviously I have a chance to win them in events or pvp but where would they drop from on token pools?

Edit: After reading 3 pages in of this thread I get it. I automatically limited my bonus toon's choice to only 3 character's. This has got to be the way forward on this for me to target specifically ones I need to fine tune.

Edit, Edit: Having all 3 stars champed already I feel personally to get the most out of this I feel now that I have to hoard any token that does not give me the chance of getting a bonus chosen 4 star cover I have marked. For me at present that is Spider Gwen, I need 1 cover to champ her. Well 2 for the ledge token I suppose. 250/250 Currently.

If not and if I am lucky enough to get the SG cover I need to champ her straight away, I am immediately in need of Iso to champ her which I currently do not have as I am trying to level up 4Falcon. Even after I level 4Falcon it may not be worth pulling tokens until I have enough iso saved up to champ SG if I am lucky with the pull.

Not opening covers will stifle the amount of iso I currently receive which I use to champ my 4 stars when they are fully cover e.g. 4Falcon at present.

This is all personal ofc and livable, but it just means I will have to tweak how I level for the foreseeable.

So I can pull standard tokens till the cows come home ( no chance of 4 star ) for the additional iso to help me champ toon’s but anything other then that is kind of a time bomb because there’s a chance I will pull a specific toon I have requested but without the iso to level them.

Lol is anyone ever truly happy with anything? Perhaps we should ask the dead.

Alsmir

27/42 3* champed, no 4* champs, most of my 38 are fully covered

Technically I could benefit from new feature, but only if ISO rates were doubled or tripled. In the last 2-3 months I started regularly drawing LTs to build my 4* roster. It was extremely random and quite annoying. My best 4* is Prof X with 10 covers, then 2 guys at 8 covers. In theory chosing 4* Cyclops as bonus hero could be great. Getting extra covers to finish him.

But the vaulting...

3* I don't mind. Most of them are fully covered anyway and I'm just slowly grinding ISO. Bonus rate to finally cover some unlucky guys (damn you Cyclops!) is neat.

4* though...
Bonus rate for 1 guy of my choice (and Peggy) - nice
Everything else - horrible. Freshly released characters are forced upon me, even if I don't like them.

1. How about a feature for least favourite characters?
Pick x heroes that you will never draw from any pack?

2. This whole new feature reminds me what happened in Hearthstone a while ago when new "standard" mode was introduced. The ranked mode was split into two parts: standard and wild.
Wild remained the way the game used to be - all cards available.
Standard format (heavily advertised as the correct way to play HS with lots of tournaments etc.) only uses cards from latest adventures and expansions, anything older can't be used.

What was the unoffficial reason for this?
To force players into buying newest expansion packs, no matter how bad they are.


Don't we have the same thing in MPQ? New characters are dropped every 2 weeks. Plenty of them are terribad, so people don't bother with them and stick to the good, old ones (OML, Cyke, Ice Man, Rulk etc.). You could try to make some new interesting designs (Strange, Peggy, Medusa) or just keep releasing mediocre ones and force people into using them a.k.a. removing everything else from Legendary Tokens.

I don't play Hearthstone anymore. I wonder if MPQ will share the same fate.

Pongie

I completely agree with El Santanno. I spend all of 2016 focusing on my 4* champions (as evident in my roster report and signature). The order were based on which had covers expiring. I completely neglected my 5* progress and hoarded all my legendary tokens and command points. I was sure then that this was the slow and steady progress that would reap me the maximum resources. Now, I'm not so sure that was the right move anymore. The majority of those 4* will never be played, unless required for pve and if I even bother to play pve that event. It was all planned on reaping the rewards that will no longer be flowing. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame anyone but myself for choosing this path. Just going to have to swallow the bitter pill and make do with what it is for what it is.

Bowgentle

Thanks for squishing any hope I had to get away from playing my 5s all the time, every event.

My 4s were coming along nicely, some reaching that magical 330+ mark where they become viable again.

Now they will never get enough champ levels.

"play with your 5s then" you say?
Sure, I will. But with a rate of 4 5s from my last 98 pulls it's kinda hard to keep doing that.

Crowl

Wumpushunter wrote:

So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.

Actually, if you read the posts, there are a lot of people with a lot of champions who hate this change too because they will stop getting champion rewards and levels for most of their champions.

The bonus heroes thing is a great idea and if it had been introduced without the idiocy of vaulting then the devs would be getting praised by almost everyone for a positive change, but instead they tacked on vaulting which practically destroys the championing system to push us towards a mixed bag of latest characters.

Crowl

Pylgrim wrote:

Do you want a level 370 Rulk? Now it is EASIER to achieve that than before. Take a moment and do the maths for yourself and tell me the estimate of pulls you'd need to get a 100 Rulks under the old model. I'll wait. (And yes, I know that you mean more than just Rulk but still, ask yourself how many of the pulls towards max-champing Rulk and all the other good characters would be "wasted" on the characters that you don't really care that much for under the previous model.)

They wouldn't be wasted though, just less focused, there are also a very large amount of omitted characters that you would want covers for in order to eventually move towards 370, not just one or two and for the others that you are less bothered about, you would still have champion rewards to keep pushing you forward too.

After a year or so of pushing us towards champing even lesser characters in order to reap the benefits of not wasting covers and getting champion rewards this latest change slams on the brakes for that approach and now any character that isn't top tier or in the latest 12 should basically be ignored, which seems like an idiotic approach.

Crowl

zulux21 wrote:

the favorite system is clearly introduced as a way to be able to do the token pool change. a change that has been needed for a long time as the pools are getting to diluted.

yes they could have done something like the favorites on their own and if they did it may have been better. but it's still an in general improvement even for old characters for getting what you want (higher odds than the whole pool being there), and overall an improvement for getting more 3-5* characters.

There is no may about it, adding favourites as the only part of this new feature would have been a massive improvement, you would have had an increased chance of getting the ones you wanted, while still getting the large ongoing benefits of the champion system as a whole.

If they wanted to do something about dilution then a better system would have been to add bonus heroes and let us select the characters we wanted to exclude from the token pools, it would also have the obvious benefit of signposting which ones were in a dire need of a rework too.

spectator

they could have just alleviated the problems they created by allowing us to choose which characters are available in tokens much like allowing us to choose which characters are available as bonus heroes

edit: oops beaten by about an hour

KingDon

I am not sure how I feel about this change.

On one hand, the bonus character is a nice welcome feature and a bonus way to get extra covers for the chars you are chasing.

On the other hand, re-implementing a vault that has removed all but 12 of the 4*s has thrown the largest wrench into my plans.

I have just started the 4* transition, as a casual player (and having only dropped around £50 over 3 years for roster slots during sales) this has been a slow process but in the last few months I have been getting there (with being championed...e.g most of the oldest 4*'s or ones which I had multiple covers expiring)

I have a number of 4*'s which I was planning on championing next ( having 13 covers and were next on the list) with (2/4/5 with a blue to come from mystique champ reward) and (5/3/2 with a blue coming from the daily rewards) (5/3/4) and (3/4/5) not far behind.

My plan was to accrue 1.5m (currently sat at around 1.1m) and then crack open my stash of CP and LT's (this was at 244 CP and 3 x LT) once I hit this mark (or just above with it being around 670k to champ the 2 covered 4*s that I have at 13 covers) to a) see if I get any of the covers for the 4*'s that I have at 13/12/11 covers and to flesh out come of the older ones that I only have a few covers for (such as who is sat at 4/0/0) this would allow me to champ a few 4*'s (covers permitting) and hopefully leave 1 mill in the bank

But now....now.....that has all gone to pot.....I cracked my 3 LT;s when the new vaulting was brought in but these yielded a ) and this just made me sad....I look at the 12 chars in the vault and from them, my best covered of these are MK (2/5/2) and SW (3/3/0) alas my Peggy is on (0/1/0) even if I use my stash, that is only 12 covers so could be just one of each....yes this with process I will not be selling any 4* chars (although I can guarantee of getting multiple pink MK covers) but I would rather have a chance of getting something that I cant use over no chance of getting one at all.

I don't want to spend any of my CP's now as the vaulted chars are just not ones I want/need right now. I know that with the bonus chars I can select my older 4*'s (I have done RH and LT) but this might yield 1 extra token every now and again and I can forget about adding any champ levels to the 4*'s that are champed...

All in all, I am happy for the bonus chars but feel deflated from the vault, I think I will be stashing the CP's until a vault is introduced that old the other 30 odd 4*'s or saving them to buy the last covers to bring them to 13