New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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  • catcusvader
    catcusvader Posts: 93 Match Maker
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    PTI
    I want to give a high five to the late arriving readers. I can't imagine having to read every single one of these posts to ensure they know whats going on. Great work, ( icon_e_geek.gif )! Your dedication to know whats happening is commendable!

    Now, back to your regularly scheduled beebop bonanza twist.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    rixmith wrote:
    This change looks great for me. I have all the older 4*'s champed, and now I can easily get the newer ones up to the level where they can win their DDQ and get champed. I've spend a couple hundred CP and pulled a bonus 5* and a bonus 4*, and gotten a bonus 3* from a LR Standard Token. So far it looks great to me.


    Have you ever seen a 370 cyclops or Rulk? And when devastating at that level. Amd whem boosted FROM 370, they are easily better than any 5* in the game. Now even fewer players will ever have a chance to see a champ 4* above level 320, let alone 370. That is the downside to this change, and it's a very big one. Now there are clearly some upsides to this set of changes too.

    But as is often the case. Demi has tied together a set of player-friendly and player-unfriendly changes, presumably so that we won't be as upset about the unfriendly changes. And as is also often the case, there was no particular reason to tie them together. We could have had all the uspide of the favorites system without any change to token odds. So stop to think why demi has done both at the same time. . .
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think people have covered most of what I would have posted already, but jumping in with a question a few days early:

    When the next character rebalance happens in a week, it sounds like those characters will not get added to the limited selection of 3* and 4* characters in the packs unless they were already there? (Which if it is finally 3* Spider-Man's turn, that is covered.) And if the character is NOT in the packs, we have to use the Favorite system or hope for event-specific rewards to re-spec a non-Championed character?
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    rixmith wrote:
    This change looks great for me. I have all the older 4*'s champed, and now I can easily get the newer ones up to the level where they can win their DDQ and get champed. I've spend a couple hundred CP and pulled a bonus 5* and a bonus 4*, and gotten a bonus 3* from a LR Standard Token. So far it looks great to me.


    Have you ever seen a 370 cyclops or Rulk? And when devastating at that level. Amd whem boosted FROM 370, they are easily better than any 5* in the game. Now even fewer players will ever have a chance to see a champ 4* above level 320, let alone 370. That is the downside to this change, and it's a very big one. Now there are clearly some upsides to this change too.
    but why?
    before this change at 20cp you had a 1 in 40+ chance of getting the 4 star you wanted (ignoring 5 stars)
    now you have a 1 in 20 if you make them your favorite 4 star. (again ignoring 5 stars as I don't want to deal with figuring out that math icon_razz.gif)

    you want the love to be spread across a few characters you can do that.

    I mean if you are hoping for one of 10 old characters then yes your odds are decreased a little, but at the same time you will get to build up the newer characters while getting the older ones.

    in general with the change if your goal is to build a level 370 it seems like it is easier then ever o.O
  • whycantwesyncpc
    whycantwesyncpc Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    Pylgrim wrote:
    Pylgrim wrote:
    I'm just about to go into the 4* transition, and of the ones I have rostered none of them are fully covered let alone champed. Taking them away is completely 100% unacceptable.

    Solution: pick one of the characters that are closer to be max-covered and you look the most forward to play with and make it a favourite. So instead of getting a smattering of 4*s that you may or may not care for, who are close or not to be max-covered, you get a good 4* of your choice max covered and champed much more quickly than you would have before. Then pick the next one you'd like to champ and so on. This will increase your competitiveness at much higher rates that complete randomness allowed in the past. All while getting more quickly fully covered the newer 4*s which include some of the best characters in the game!

    The closest I have is maybe 6 covers. I have almost none of the twelve chosen ones rostered and 100hp. I'm going to hit that progression brick wall really fast. Unbreaking the game would be a far better solution

    If this is the case, your complaint makes even less sense. If the highest 4* you have has 6 covers, (and assuming a somewhat even distribution for sake of the argument), you'd first get one cover of every 4* in the game (an ever-increasing number), before you'd get the second of any given character. Meaning that to get your 6-covered 4* to 13 covers, it would take you a theoretical 315 or so 4* pulls or almost 4,500 heroic tokens (I'm also assuming that you don't get that many Legendary tokens at your roster current status). Obviously, randomness doesn't work like that and you could get it much earlier or much later, but the mean is good enough to draw conclusions.

    On the other hand, under current circumstances, you could make that 6-covered character your favourite and get 7 covers from only 140 4* pulls or less than 2,000 heroic tokens.

    As for roster slots for newer characters... well that always has been an issue and all I can tell you is that once you become more competitive (by, for example, champing more quickly some good 4*s) your HP flow will greatly increase to the point that you will actually start coming head.

    EDIT: With Anthony's new clarification things look even better. It's not 5% of your 3* or 4* pulls but 5% of all your pulls, so, according to Anthony, more like 17% of your 3* and 4* pulls. With that figure, you'd get your 7 covers from only ~700 heroic tokens.

    It's still pure stupid. I have almost none of the chose rostered. I have a large number of the earlier ones rostered. Actually being able to use covers pulled is better than drawing and letting them rot. Why would I want to champ a single 4*, it's just going to screw up scaling for the rest of my roster. Of course this is greedy devs trying to force us to pony up for hero points to roster the new characters. Pure greed, nothing else. If this was about making it easier to separate characters as things get diluted they wouldn't lock the old ones away. Why don't we just be honest about the flat out greed?
  • Lytes420
    Lytes420 Posts: 63 Match Maker
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    Interesting - looks like I may be better off selling my 1-cover Eddie Brock Venom, Carnage, Mr F & Invisible Woman, which would give me 4 roster slots for the 4 4* I dont currently have (Wasp/Riri/Blade/Agent Venom) and then go crazy (for me) opening up 30 Classic Legends (I have about 600 CP)

    At least until I pull a 5* I dont own - but then I just wouldnt roster Wasp etc

    Any thoughts on this approach on cutting my losses with 4*'s that are 'out of the pool', and focusing on these latest 12?

    https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/iron-n-wine/
    Iron-n-wine,I think it boils down to whether you focus more on pvp or pve.if it's pve,those 1 cover characters are eventually going to be essentials,an you will eventually get more covers for them from progression rewards,etc.if it's more pvp,those roster slots could be usefull.i'd definetly free up at least one for blade,those other 3,not so much.
  • iron-n-wine
    iron-n-wine Posts: 495 Mover and Shaker
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    thanks Lytes - I am more PVE focussed, and thats true about the essential nodes (and for the new DDQ too), so its probably better to hold onto what I've got, and just open one at a time when I have the spare HP
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
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    Brigby wrote:
    *Updated post with an exclusive drop-rate breakdown from Demiurge's developer, Anthony.

    I guess this explains how I got 3 bonus 3* heroes from only 10 elite tokens (apart from insane luck). Nice added value to the elites.

    Please put the older 4*s back into some sort of token though, like Classic Legendaries, if not back into everything. Bonus Heroes update would have been a grand slam if not for limiting the pools of 3*s and 4*s like this.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
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    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.
  • whycantwesyncpc
    whycantwesyncpc Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.


    The sad thing is that they could have so easily done this in a way that would have made everyone happy. Guess greed screws with judgement
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.


    The sad thing is that they could have so easily done this in a way that would have made everyone happy. Guess greed screws with judgement

    well, if by everyone you don't count the accountants at demi and d3 (and to be fair, the game does need to make $ to stay live).

    and wumpushunter, fwiw, I have a bunch of 4* champs and am still pretty skeptical of this change overall. . . (#notallvets? icon_e_smile.gif )
  • whycantwesyncpc
    whycantwesyncpc Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.


    The sad thing is that they could have so easily done this in a way that would have made everyone happy. Guess greed screws with judgement

    well, if by everyone you don't count the accountants at demi and d3 (and to be fair, the game does need to make $ to stay live).

    and wumpushunter, fwiw, I have a bunch of 4* champs and am still pretty skeptical of this change overall. . . (#notallvets? icon_e_smile.gif )

    There is a difference between paying the bills/making a profit and just being greedy. This is greedy. As long as this **** is going on they will never get a penny from me. I wish I could get some refunds as this is no longer the game I paid into.
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
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    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.
    I'm a person without a single 4 star champ (to be fair I do have like 6 of them I have the covers I could champ) that finds this to be a great change as I will be able to get the characters I want much faster now *shrugs*

    I'll take 1 in 20 odds I get a cover for the character I want to build over them being included in the normal draw at 1 in 40+ odds any day.

    it's win win to me, better odds I get a cover for my most wanted character and better odds of being able to build up the new characters.

    with my two star farm HP for roster space isn't an issue, and I am the type that tries to roster everyone anyways as the game from day one has always been roster everyone if you play PVE.
  • Nepenthe
    Nepenthe Posts: 283 Mover and Shaker
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    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.

    I have championed a lot of characters (all 3*s, 36 4*s) and I don't think the limited character pool part of it is a good idea at all. I think most of the people who are defending that part of the change are severely overestimating how much the 5% bonus hero will compensate for older heroes not being in tokens anymore. And underestimating the value in pulling champ rewards for all those older heroes we already championed, even if they weren't the ones we would have picked as favorites.
  • fanghoul
    fanghoul Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
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    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.

    I have three 4* characters championed, and I like this change. It's made it easier to champ exactly the ones that I like without drawing the garbage ones I don't.
  • whycantwesyncpc
    whycantwesyncpc Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
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    Nepenthe wrote:
    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.

    I have championed a lot of characters (all 3*s, 36 4*s) and I don't think the limited character pool part of it is a good idea at all. I think most of the people who are defending that part of the change are severely overestimating how much the 5% bonus hero will compensate for older heroes not being in tokens anymore. And underestimating the value in pulling champ rewards for all those older heroes we already championed, even if they weren't the ones we would have picked as favorites.


    The thing is that there are different player in the game. Some are big marvel fans and want to play their favorite characters. Some enjoy the game itself more and just want to have the best characters whoever they are. Locking out characters is good for the first group and bad for the first. It has nothing to do with who is in your roster. This is bad for those of us who aren't in the rush to the end. I didn't even roster a since 4* until I actually had every 3* rostered. Hey, why care about those of us taking it slow when they can try and force us to buy roster slots.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    zulux21 wrote:
    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.
    I'm a person without a single 4 star champ (to be fair I do have like 6 of them I have the covers I could champ) that finds this to be a great change as I will be able to get the characters I want much faster now *shrugs*

    I'll take 1 in 20 odds I get a cover for the character I want to build over them being included in the normal draw at 1 in 40+ odds any day.

    it's win win to me, better odds I get a cover for my most wanted character and better odds of being able to build up the new characters.

    with my two star farm HP for roster space isn't an issue, and I am the type that tries to roster everyone anyways as the game from day one has always been roster everyone if you play PVE.

    And greater odds of maxing new characters faster than you can champ them. And then having to sell covers instead of enjoying delicious 4* champ rewards. There are a lot of costs to this change that arent immediately obvious but will add up in the long run. And this game is all about the long run, so this stuff matters. . .
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
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    The thing is that there are different player in the game. Some are big marvel fans and want to play their favorite characters. Some enjoy the game itself more and just want to have the best characters whoever they are. Locking out characters is good for the first group and bad for the first. It has nothing to do with who is in your roster. This is bad for those of us who aren't in the rush to the end. I didn't even roster a since 4* until I actually had every 3* rostered. Hey, why care about those of us taking it slow when they can try and force us to buy roster slots.
    the plus side of taking it slow is that roster slots aren't an issue o.O
    In general I rarely buy anything but roster spots with my HP.
    back before champ levels it was strictly all I bought as it was hard to get enough hP to keep up with the character releases.
    now thanks to the champ stuff I buy a few roster slots a month and can buy a few tokens as 2* farms give plenty of HP.

    I'm a rather casual player usually only doing DDQ each day and every third event or so going for the 4 star progression from pve. even doing just that it's quite easy to get enough HP to buy 3-4 roster slots a month.
    Vhailorx wrote:
    zulux21 wrote:
    So everyone so far that thinks this is a good idea has already championed a ton of characters but those who just started will almost never champion certain great characters. This is an unnecessary change and hurts my interest in continuing with this game.
    I'm a person without a single 4 star champ (to be fair I do have like 6 of them I have the covers I could champ) that finds this to be a great change as I will be able to get the characters I want much faster now *shrugs*

    I'll take 1 in 20 odds I get a cover for the character I want to build over them being included in the normal draw at 1 in 40+ odds any day.

    it's win win to me, better odds I get a cover for my most wanted character and better odds of being able to build up the new characters.

    with my two star farm HP for roster space isn't an issue, and I am the type that tries to roster everyone anyways as the game from day one has always been roster everyone if you play PVE.

    And greater odds of maxing new characters faster than you can champ them. And then having to sell covers instead of enjoying delicious 4* champ rewards. There are a lot of costs to this change that arent immediately obvious but will add up in the long run. And this game is all about the long run, so this stuff matters. . .
    So, champ the new characters before focusing on champing all of the old?

    Aside from this initial period where there are suddenly 12 characters that have much higher odds it won't be much of an issue. and in general the new characters are more useful than most of the older ones anyways so you want to be focusing on champing them to remain competitive.

    but sure you might miss out on a few champ rewards during the process, you will also however have more iso because of it since 5% of the time worst case you just get bonus iso in the form of a cover.

    I mean missing champ rewards is sad, but at the same time everyone always complains that it is iso iso iso they need, and champ levels don't give you extra iso, just other things, this system does increase iso a bit as well as allow you to focus on certain characters.

    in the long run this should be better for pretty much everyone. But hey that is just my view. I still won't give this company a penny due to them still screwing over steam users, but I really don't get the anger with this change. I suppose people just like to hate change.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    zulux21 wrote:
    So, champ the new characters before focusing on champing all of the old?

    That's the problem. This game is a never ending stream of new. There will never be a chance to focus on the old.
  • fanghoul
    fanghoul Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    And greater odds of maxing new characters faster than you can champ them. And then having to sell covers instead of enjoying delicious 4* champ rewards. There are a lot of costs to this change that arent immediately obvious but will add up in the long run. And this game is all about the long run, so this stuff matters. . .

    Hmm, what actually are the odds of drawing the right 13 covers for a character while they're in the rotation?

    Getting 2-3 covers is relatively easy from progression, event and occasionally PvP progression rewards. And a character is going to be in rotation for maybe 6 months right now?

    Bah, I need to go to bed, not do statistical analysis of random variables. Maybe come back to this when I have a moment.