New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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  • Jaedenkaal
    Jaedenkaal Posts: 3,357 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Kavosseay wrote:
    Is there any reason why this feature is specific to SCL8 and above? Seems like I'm in the minority on these forums as an SCL7 but without the Bonus Heroes, a lot of the 3* heroes are now almost inaccessible. While the 4* tier (usually SCL8 peeps) seem to have the most need for new ways to get covers, as a LVL 48 3-4* transitioner, I basically need to hoard every token for the next 4 shield levels for what seems like no reason. Otherwise, I get all the downside of "vaulting" covers and none of the upside of Bonus Heroes.

    Thoughts?

    Well, the advantage to lower SCL players is that it will be easier to get championed 3*s, for the 20 that are in the tokens. I've outlined the mix a few pages back and it seems... ok.

    For players who have gotten a bunch of 3*s already and are looking to start into 4*s but aren't quite in SCL8 yet... I don't know. It seems like it could be an advantage to have 10 3*s champed at level 186 than 20 champed at level 176, as the rewards get better the further you go, but... on the other hand champ scaling is pretty flat so the power advantages you get from those extra 10 levels isn't huge. And it'll also be super frustrating if those vaulted characters are also required characters in events. I guess you'll get a cover or two for them in the event, but after that...

    Oh, shield rank 8. Well that seems soon enough. I think the above is still applicable to some, however.
  • Saintsfanuk
    Saintsfanuk Posts: 21 Just Dropped In
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    The change in legendary tokens for me is perfect. I've all the old 4s fully covered and only need newer ones. I was holding my LTs until something changed. Now just opened 55 got 8 5 star covers and filled out most of the newer 4s.

    Of course now how do I get champ levels in the older ones, I just got 5 with Peggy as she is in the newest. Bonus heroes are supposed to be the answer, but out of 55 pulls I got 1 and that was Thora and of course blue that I have 5 in, I want to finish her but this did not help at all.

    Good change but I like the idea that was posted about the older 4s going into classics with the older 5s. Rotate them out each season or every 2 weeks or so. Then we can get champ levels and finish other 4s if we save up the CP.
  • crackninja
    crackninja Posts: 444 Mover and Shaker
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    I get the idea behind this. Everyone complains the pools are too diluted, and they addressed that by shrinking them dramatically, at least for 3* and 4*. Everyone says it takes too long to cover the new 4*'s, so now that isn't as true. And now you can fave oml and get covers specifically for him at random intervals. The thing that wasn't taken into account is that this is pretty discouraging to people like me with a bunch of 4 to 8 cover older 4*'s that now appear impossible to fully cover.
  • Nick441234
    Nick441234 Posts: 1,496 Chairperson of the Boards
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    sinnerjfl wrote:
    We wont really know how this change will work until a few weeks down the line, but if they have plans to rotate the charcters in packs every few weeks, I think its a great system. Any characters I particularly want covers for who aren't in this rotation (Iceman), I've added to my bonus list. The point to the bonus list is to add characters you really, really want. You'd think most would just add the ones who are best on their roster. Clearly, if you add everyone, you aren't changing your chances much from the previous system. Its about being selective now, so select the best guys that are going to help your roster needs the most right now.

    There is no plan to rotate the characters, all that's planned is vaulting older 4*'s when new 4*'s are added.

    I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.
  • hodayathink
    hodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    Reading all this and some of the reactions, the positives seem to be free covers at a drop rate of somewhere between 1% (Heroics) and 5% (Legendaries), a little bit of choice on the older 4* covers you get (or more importantly, the ones you don't get), and it's now easier to cover newer 4* characters. The primary negative is the significant slowing of getting older 4* covers and non-selected 3* (basically just progressions, placements, champ levels and vaults now). If I were them, I'd basically handle this 2 ways:

    1.) Do the same thing with classic/latest 4* in legendaries that they do with 5* (i.e. the Latest Legends continues to have the newest 12 4*, and classic legends contains everyone else). So that if you want to, you still have some way to directly RNG yourself into useful older 4*.

    2.) Now would be the best time to open up placement rewards in PvP and PvE. Give people more covers there (especially 4*) to counteract the fact that they're getting less of the older covers from tokens directly. Throw 4* into alliance rewards and extend how far covers go down in them for events (say, top 50 alliances now get 4* covers each event, and top 250 get 3*), and extend them down in each Clearance Level above 6 (so, let's say, 4* for top 20 for CL6, top 50 in CL7, and top 100 in CL8, and extending the 2+ 3* covers to top 100 in CL6, top 200 in CL7, and top 300 in CL8).
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I understand that they'd finally released way too many 4*'s for odds to remain even remotely "viable" and the choice was either something which greatly benefits the players or this system (which still benefits players, but only slightly). My take from this is that Demiurge really just don't know what to do next or where to go.

    However, something that did draw my attention is that token odds are now given in the form 1 in X, rather than a percentage chance. This change in wording can be construed to mean that if I open, say, 20 Classic Legendary Tokens, I will get 1 of the selected Bonus Heroes. It's semantics, I know, but this definitely opens the door for people to spend big, buy a lot of tokens, and then ask for refunds when the results do not match the published odds.

    Very good point and that makes this "level up for $99 button" scam 2.0.
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
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    zodiac339 wrote:
    Okay, good with bad.
    Bad: 1/20 chance IF you get the 1/4 chance of available rares. So, 1 in 80 chance basically.

    Compared to what it was before, it seems to me it's both good and bad.

    Previously, you had around a 1/8 chance (don't know the actual #s but basing it on their claim that the new rate is over 2X the old rate) for getting a 3*.

    Now, you have a 1/4 chance of getting one of the 20 selected 3*s (and about a 4X better chance of getting a specific one) and about a 1/80 chance of getting one of your favorites (chance of getting a specific one could be higher or lower than before depending on how many you select - though if select more than a handful, your chances are lower).
  • sinnerjfl
    sinnerjfl Posts: 1,274 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.
    Newest Characters in Packs:
    Also, starting with Bonus Heroes, packs will contain the newest characters. In packs that have 4-Stars, you will be able to get the 12 latest 4-Stars that have been released. For 3-Stars, you will be able to get 20 3-Stars chosen by the Design team at Demiurge Studios. Whenever a new character is introduced into these packs, the oldest character will be rotated out of the pack.

    The only rotation thats planned is removing the oldest releases for the new ones. That's it.

    If they have plan to rotate them they need to clarify this ASAP.
  • beyonderbub
    beyonderbub Posts: 661 Critical Contributor
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    I'm willing to give it a chance. I blew through a mini-hoard of token packs and CP after this kicked in today. Didn't receive any bonus covers yet; but was able to 'use' everything pulled. Gonna try and just pull packs as I get them and see where that takes me. I hope my roster can handle it.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.
    They definitely implied that the 3* lineup would be changing over time.

    The implication for 4* characters, however, is that the oldest will be displaced as the new ones go in and it will for the foreseeable future contain only the 12 latest 4* at any given time.

    It's a bad move. If they don't walk this back in the next couple of days, I'm probably done. I wish I hadn't renewed VIP this morning.
  • Dayv
    Dayv Posts: 4,449 Chairperson of the Boards
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    astrp3 wrote:
    Previously, you had around a 1/8 chance (don't know the actual #s but basing it on their claim that the new rate is over 2X the old rate) for getting a 3*.

    Now, you have a 1/4 chance of getting one of the 20 selected 3*s
    You see, they used confusing wording there. What they actually meant when they said that 3* drop rates were doubled was that they were doubled for the characters still available in the tokens. This is staggeringly easy to do if you just take out half the possible results.

    And then the 4* characters! They more than tripled the drop rate for the characters in the tokens by taking out more than two-thirds of the characters you could get!

    Are you mad now?
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,579 Chairperson of the Boards
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    People just love to complain. icon_lol.gif

    Before, packs were becoming too diluted so they could never draw the character they wanted. Now, with packs watered down, people complain that they cant get a specific character. How do they win?

    We wont really know how this change will work until a few weeks down the line, but if they have plans to rotate the charcters in packs every few weeks, I think its a great system. Any characters I particularly want covers for who aren't in this rotation (Iceman), I've added to my bonus list. The point to the bonus list is to add characters you really, really want. You'd think most would just add the ones who are best on their roster. Clearly, if you add everyone, you aren't changing your chances much from the previous system. Its about being selective now, so select the best guys that are going to help your roster needs the most right now.

    The problem is that what people really object to is pulling useless characters or unusable covers, neither of these things have changed with this move because you have a large number of top tier 4* characters missing and that latest 12 includes a number of characters that stink.

    I think you are in for a shock if you expect them to rotate 4*s every few weeks, with the rate of releases they already have an established mechanism for changing the contents of a pack i.e. one in one out.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    broll wrote:
    Lukoil wrote:
    sinnerjfl wrote:
    Vaulting a ton of characters and making them unavailable is a lot more important. You've basically killed your champions
    system with this vaulting stuff, way to go!
    But you can make them available just by selecting all of them as favorites

    So instead of RNG they are now an RNG to an RNG to an RNG. I'm thrilled. icon_rolleyes.gif

    I was just thinking that actually then wondering why they was no "Yo dawg, we heard you liked RNG" meme
  • whitecat31
    whitecat31 Posts: 579 Critical Contributor
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    fmftint wrote:
    The 5 star odds on Latests now displays 1/7, is that a solid 1/7 or an ambiguous 1/7?

    My guess is it is a solid percentage drop from 15% to 14.25 %. Everybody who has said we have a standard 15% chance to pull a legendary token is in theory thinking they have added an extra 0.75% with the bonus pull chance. Nope 14.25 + 0.75 = 15%.
    Our 5 star percentage pull is still at 15%, it just means that if you spend 2800 cp in the legendary classics one of the covers you want will be a favorite.
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
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    This is gonna put an even larger gap between 5* and 4* rosters. Might actually be worth just skipping the 4* tier. They broke it pretty good.
  • HaywireII
    HaywireII Posts: 568 Critical Contributor
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    hqdefault.jpg

    Well...not ever. But I love this change. Took Captain Marvel from 10 covers to 13+3 and going to champ her. So nice to be able to target my pulls.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I think people are being a bit conspiratorial about the ~1:7 thing. They put the tilde in there, and 1:7 is the closest interger ratio (with 1 as a numerator) to 15%. Rounding to a nice even ratio seems more likely than stralth nerfing the 5* drop rate.

    This is why switching to ratios was stupid. It's less precise than percentages (which were already rounded themselves). But at least on the plus side. . .nope i honestly can't think of one thing about using ratios that is an improvement for players. Maybe the inscrutability is a perceivrd benefit for demi/d3? Since fewer players will understand how bad the odds are?
  • whitecat31
    whitecat31 Posts: 579 Critical Contributor
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    So I'm 1 cover away from maxing OML, my best odds are now to favorite him and him only and pull from the 25cp store yes?

    It's really just a question of which store gives the best odds of pulling a 5 period.. And then hoping the bonus kicks in?

    No. You still only have a 14.25% chance (~1:7) whether it is a legendary classics or a legendary token pull. So you currently have 10 five stars to choose from in the classics. That is a 1.43% chance to get an OML cover. With the extra 0.73% chance that translates to a theoretical 2.1% chance to get an OML cover now.
    So in Legendary Token land you would have to spend 140 pulls at 25 command points each, to get an OML cover. Total 3500 command points.
    While in Legendary Classics land you would have to spend 48 pulls at 20 command points each to get an OML cover. Total 960 command points.
  • Dragon_Nexus
    Dragon_Nexus Posts: 3,701 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Vhailorx wrote:
    I think people are being a bit conspiratorial about the ~1:7 thing. They put the tilde in there, and 1:7 is the closest interger ratio (with 1 as a numerator) to 15%. Rounding to a nice even ratio seems more likely than stralth nerfing the 5* drop rate.

    This is why switching to ratios was stupid. It's less precise than percentages (which were already rounded themselves). But at least on the plus side. . .nope i honestly can't think of one thing about using ratios that is an improvement for players. Maybe the inscrutability is a perceivrd benefit for demi/d3? Since fewer players will understand how bad the odds are?

    If I had my cynical hat on, I'd say they were aiming to deliberately obfuscate the odds to cause confusion and make something seem more obtainable than it actually is.
    15% sounds like **** odds, but 1:7 sounds pretty damn good.
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
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    i think the best solution over all would be:

    Bonus characters same as described.

    -Latest Legendary tokens have newest 3 (5*) and 12 (latest 4*'s).
    -Classic Legendary tokens have rest of 5* and 4*.
    -Have "new" drop rate of 4* still be 1:14 but have all 4*'s except "new and limited" characters available in Heroic/Events tokens.
    -Switch out Half 3* (21) every season so "new" drop rate stay about the same for them for all tokens they are in Standards, Elites and Heroic/Event tokens. so every character can drop every 2 seasons.