New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

Jaedenkaal

Looking at this from another angle. The 20 3*s available in tokens breaks to the following:

Yellow Powers: 7 Active, 5 Passive
Red: 8 Active
Blue: 7 Active, 2 Passive
Purple: 12 Active, 1 Passive
Green: 8 Active, 2 Passive
Black: 5 Active, 3 Passive

Y/U/B: 1 (Black Panther)
G/R/P: 1 (Black Widow)
B/P/G: 4 (Blade, Iron Fist, Loki, Thanos)
R/Y/B: 2 (Cyclops, Luke Cage)
P/U/R: 1 (Daredevil)
R/P/B: 1 (Deadpool)
U/P/Y: 3 (Doctor Strange, Sam Wilson, Spider-Man)
R/U/Y: 2 (Iron Man, Steve Rogers)
Y/P/G: 2 (Kamala Khan, Squirrel Girl)
Y/G/U: 1 (Rocket & Groot)
P/G/U: 1 (Scarlet Witch)
G/R/Y: 1 (Wolverine)

The champion rewards for those characters work out to:

(Not in tokens anymore)
Mr. Fantastic
Nick Fury
Ghost Rider
Cyclops
Elektra
Deadpool
Nova
Iron Man
Thor
Venom
Drax
Sam Wilson
Quake
Miles Morales
Ant-Man
Winter Soldier
Red Hulk
Wolverine

(in tokens)
Kate Bishop (for like 2 more seconds)
Luke Cage

I bring it up because this is the 3* game now. It'll be faster than before, I'll give it that.

killerkoala

so 22 out of 42 (3*) and 31 out of 43 ( 4*) and soon, to be 33 out of 45 (4*), with the addition of coulson and mordo next season and not counting Howard or Dino; will be out of tokens and will be "vaulted" unless u favorite them.

Jaedenkaal

killerkoala wrote:

so 22 out of 42 (3*) and 31 out of 43 ( 4*) and soon, to be 33 out of 45 (4*), with the addition of coulson and mordo next season and not counting Howard or Dino; will be out of tokens and will be "vaulted" unless u favorite them.

They'll still be in vaults (probably), progression rewards, placement rewards, champion rewards, and PVP stores when they are the featured character (which 4*s typically are not). Rags is in his right now. But otherwise, yep. That's about the gist of it.

Stax the Foyer

Pylgrim wrote:

Mordacity aside, all comparisons I'm seeing to the old "vaulting" are categorically erroneous due to two new features added ever since: champing and bonus heroes. The problem with vaulting was that if you had already max covered the characters available, while the ones you needed were in the "vault", you were basically screwed as you kept drawing covers that you didn't need and couldn't use, while your uncovered characters languished for several seasons. Now, if you already have max-covered the characters available for drawing, you can use the extra covers for champ levels and in the meantime you can get the "vaulted" characters of your choice at better odds than could be found under the previous system. I emphasise the choice aspect of it, because in the past, for every "lucky" draw of Iceman or one of the other staple characters, you drew lots of Mr Fs and V4nom and the such. Such waste of a draw won't happen ever again.

Of course it will. It'll just be Wasp and Mordo instead of Mr. F and Venom. Not every character is a winner.

The complaint around vaulting focused much more on the characters you couldn't draw, rather than the characters you could. I suppose there was some complaining about the Storm covers that were given out as a reward for every other event, but that was a special case.

Bonus heroes give you a miniscule amount of additional covers to be spread as you choose among 30-some characters, many of which were champed by people with the express intent of using them for cover rewards. The odds are only better under this system for the one or two characters that you focus on, to the detriment of all of the others.

Under the old system, I was making progress on a bunch of 4* characters that I was getting close to 5*-competitive levels, all of which were making steady progress. Nova and Quake were getting close to that threshold, and Thing and Kingpin were situationally good. Jean, Rulk, Iceman and XFDP were in that final stretch where every cover is significant because scaling is pants-on-head crazy. Punisher and Peggy weren't there yet, but they were getting close.

Now, that progress has been put on hold for all but one or two of those at a time. There'll be the odd progression cover a couple times a year, and maybe a lucky vault pull, but the rest will basically stall out. That's seriously disappointing on its own merits, whatever problems people previously had with vaulting.

killerkoala

Jaedenkaal wrote:

killerkoala wrote:

so 22 out of 42 (3*) and 31 out of 43 ( 4*) and soon, to be 33 out of 45 (4*), with the addition of coulson and mordo next season and not counting Howard or Dino; will be out of tokens and will be "vaulted" unless u favorite them.

They'll still be in vaults (probably), progression rewards, placement rewards, champion rewards, and PVP stores when they are the featured character (which 4*s typically are not). Rags is in his right now. But otherwise, yep. That's about the gist of it.

i was thinking about non-special or event tokens like standard, elite, heroic, or legendaries.

Quest34

Maybe cl9 is coming after the season with easier access to 4 star rewards. Wishful thinking but would make some sense with the vaulting that was implemented

Tilesmasher

This this improves my chances at getting my last OML cover, so I'm happy.

Been pulling 5-10 classics a week since October.. Anything is better than that.

Magic

Still mixed feelings about this. I have this fix:

1. Odds of BH at 10% (can be 12-15 in 10 and 40 packs)
2. Vault 4* in legendary pulls (preferably keep all in the classic pulls but I could live with the vault in both). That way you discourage hoarding in a way
3. Restore all 3 and 4* in every other type of token.

I say this change with the above details would be close to a home run. What devs gave is now is not even close.

aergia

Honestly for where I'm at with my roster (needing mostly newer 4*s) this feature is great.

However, for players who are still working out their 4* roster, even with the bonus heroes feature, this vaulting forces players to roster newer champions and therefore spend HP.

whycantwesyncpc

aergia wrote:

Honestly for where I'm at with my roster (needing mostly newer 4*s) this feature is great.

However, for players who are still working out their 4* roster, even with the bonus heroes feature, this vaulting forces players to roster newer champions and therefore spend HP.

Of course, got to try and squeeze every penny out of the playerbase that you can!

NewMcG

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

aergia wrote:

Honestly for where I'm at with my roster (needing mostly newer 4*s) this feature is great.

However, for players who are still working out their 4* roster, even with the bonus heroes feature, this vaulting forces players to roster newer champions and therefore spend HP.

Of course, got to try and squeeze every penny out of the playerbase that you can!

It's almost like that's how they make their money!

CNash

I don't mind the 3* vaulting so much. It's (almost) a straight 50% in and out - and it's not like we'll never see the other 22 again, they'll still be in Vaults (including Taco vaults), progression and placement rewards, and the DDQ Big Enchilada rotation will (hopefully) continue as normal.

The 4* situation, though, is terrible. 12 out of 45 means that almost 75% of some of the most hyped characters in the game are basically inaccessible outside of the Bonus Hero feature - and as before, placement/progression rewards and Vaults, although there are typically far fewer 4*s in most Vaults compared to 3* and below. This is ill-advised and won't endear Demiurge to players who've spent their entire MPQ career trying desperately to collect 13 covers for one of the classic 4* powerhouses like Hulkbuster, Iceman or Deadpool, and now find their task that much harder (and with more RNG hoops to jump through).

Xenoberyll

My token luck sucks. This feature only increases the already huge gap between the lucky and the unlucky.

Since 5stars are next to worthless unless you have them maxed, i hoarded almost 250 latest legend pulls so far. While hoarding i also champed as many 4stars as possible, so the covers i'd pull would not be useless.
Since the older 4stars are out now all that effort is now wasted, my champs won't get any champ levels and i won't have the iso to champ the new guys I'll inevitably have extra covers on.

Since the bonus 5% will only apply to 5stars if i pull one already, the real number is ridiculously low. If i keep pulling at <9% i'll have a bogus percentage of less than 0.5%

And here you thought we'd all be exited..

firethorne

New McG wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

aergia wrote:

Honestly for where I'm at with my roster (needing mostly newer 4*s) this feature is great.

However, for players who are still working out their 4* roster, even with the bonus heroes feature, this vaulting forces players to roster newer champions and therefore spend HP.

Of course, got to try and squeeze every penny out of the playerbase that you can!

It's almost like that's how they make their money!

You'll get more money from a long term happy player than one you've just alienated. My VIP expired today, and it shall remain that way until they come up with a better solution. I know I can be a bit of a curmudgeon. But, I've now seen forum mods saying this as well. That's got to raise some eyebrows.

DrDevilDinosaur

I understand that they'd finally released way too many 4*'s for odds to remain even remotely "viable" and the choice was either something which greatly benefits the players or this system (which still benefits players, but only slightly). My take from this is that Demiurge really just don't know what to do next or where to go.

However, something that did draw my attention is that token odds are now given in the form 1 in X, rather than a percentage chance. This change in wording can be construed to mean that if I open, say, 20 Classic Legendary Tokens, I will get 1 of the selected Bonus Heroes. It's semantics, I know, but this definitely opens the door for people to spend big, buy a lot of tokens, and then ask for refunds when the results do not match the published odds.

Agent XLII

Just in case they are taking tallies, not a fan +1.

Kavosseay

Is there any reason why this feature is specific to SCL8 and above? Seems like I'm in the minority on these forums as an SCL7 but without the Bonus Heroes, a lot of the 3* heroes are now almost inaccessible. While the 4* tier (usually SCL8 peeps) seem to have the most need for new ways to get covers, as a LVL 48 3-4* transitioner, I basically need to hoard every token for the next 4 shield levels for what seems like no reason. Otherwise, I get all the downside of "vaulting" covers and none of the upside of Bonus Heroes.

Thoughts?

notamutant

Kavosseay wrote:

Is there any reason why this feature is specific to SCL8 and above? Seems like I'm in the minority on these forums as an SCL7 but without the Bonus Heroes, a lot of the 3* heroes are now almost inaccessible. While the 4* tier (usually SCL8 peeps) seem to have the most need for new ways to get covers, as a LVL 48 3-4* transitioner, I basically need to hoard every token for the next 4 shield levels for what seems like no reason. Otherwise, I get all the downside of "vaulting" covers and none of the upside of Bonus Heroes.

Thoughts?

It is shield rank 8, not shield clearance level 8. You are included in this.

Agent XLII

I'll admit, things were becoming quite saturated. I thought they would do something along the lines of waiting until there was 20 or so 5 star guys in game and then split the two vaults. 20 cp/leg tokens for 4 stars and 100 or 200 cp/new epic token for 5s.

I was wrong.

shobi6669

Pylgrim wrote:

I emphasise the choice aspect of it, because in the past, for every "lucky" draw of Iceman or one of the other staple characters, you drew lots of Mr Fs and V4nom and the such. Such waste of a draw won't happen ever again.

The problem with this point of view is that those of us who are loathe to waste/sell covers already adapted to the status quo and have champed IW / Elektra / Mr. F / EddieVenom / Spider-Gwen / Flaptain / Carnage / pick whichever 4star you do not like or consider worthy. We did it to supposedly take advantage of the champion system (which I still maintain was a great add to the game) and to not waste covers. The real problem is not with what they have done with the new system, the problem for me was that it was announced and then patched into the game so quickly and with no warning that I had no time to react. When I left for work earlier today b/c I have 31 champs (not counting Dino & Duck), if I opened my hoarded tokens MOST of them would have been champion rewards. When I was free to open the game again, the only thing I can pull with my hoarded tokens are new characters of which I only had 2 champed. I did open some tokens, but it did not take long b/f I had to stop - few enough that I never even got a "bonus hero" so I will take others word that it actually works - but because all the new characters are not champed, I had to stop pulling to avoid wasting / selling covers.

I cannot decide if I feel like they actually planned a bait & switch on me (you need to champ all the old fours, so you stop wasting covers and the champion system really gives you an incentive to do that, so I did it) or if circumstance just fell that this really moved the goal line even further away for me. I can't open my tokens now b/c I simply do not have enough iso to champ the 9 4stars which remain in tokens that I do not have covered/champed. I guess this gives me a real incentive to champ the new 4s, but I feel like a fool for buying into the champ system and champing the dud old fours, thinking their champ levels would pay off down the line. Sounds like I'll never be getting those champ levels for the old 4s now.

TLDR = this only forces me to hoard more and progress less and I really wish they had explained it longer in advance of pushing it through so I could have cracked my legendaries and spent my CP on further progressing the roster I already chose to progress rather than the 12 newest I am left with now.