New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

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  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
    OneLastGambit wrote:

    Hypothetical scenario ....

    Lets imagine instead of removing them they put them in an alternate pool. Well call it the retirement home since it contains old characters. Would you be rushing to then spend all your cp in the retirement home? Orrrr would you still be spending it on the newer characters even with the exact same odds?

    Chances are it'll be option b. The issue isn't that they took people out of the pool (the forum has been wanting that for a while) the issue is you want the ability to choose even though you won't choose. Which has the exact same effect as taking them away.
    If you're a player like me with over 30 champ 4 star.png s, you're G*D D**N right I'd be pulling from the retirement home. I cover new characters fast enough in the old system that I don't need them forced down my throat. Of the 12 most recent currently in packs I have 6 full covered and or championed and 2 more 1 cover away
  • smkspy
    smkspy Posts: 2,024 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2017
    fanghoul wrote:
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    smkspy wrote:
    When on gf's account where she only has 3 of the current 12 fours rostered. This pretty much kills any forward progression she had when it came to 4s.

    Hrrm? This should accelerate her progress on those 12 4s, particularly the ones she doesn't have. Now nearly 4x more likely to draw them!

    And if she has older 4*s she wants to work on, have her pick the 2 older 4*s as her favorites.

    Boom.

    At 1/40 odds of one of those being a bonus character drawn, she is now progressing with those two characters slightly faster than before the change.

    And if the bonus effect never or rarely drops for her because it resets every time you pull a new token?

    This just doubles down on the hoarding mentality for anyone that doesn't have every character already rostered. She barely was making pulls as it was, maybe one per week, now she has zero incentive to pull because the characters she is chasing HB and Rulk are now based on rng inside rng.

    For some on tier of almost quitting, this all of buts guarantees it for her. Sunshine moment, I get my game back lol.

    Really, this changes really drives home that we need a daily 4 star deadpool now.more than ever.
  • Brigby
    Brigby ADMINISTRATORS Posts: 7,757 Site Admin
    *Updated post with an exclusive drop-rate breakdown from Demiurge's developer, Anthony.
  • killerkoala
    killerkoala Posts: 1,185 Chairperson of the Boards
    aesthetocyst wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    Kind of shocked to hear that you like it.

    Like what where and when? When I said, "Overall the odds display is a lot more sophisticated and polished."? That's in reference to the overall presentation. Color scheme, layout, use of visuals, typography, etc. It's not perfect, but it's beautiful compared to all preceding UI efforts.

    Less informative, less accurate, and the big "?" in the bottom goes to the Bonus Heroes FAQ. ****? That should be a link to a "How the hell do I read this new table?" guide. Need for such a guide demonstrates it ain't perfection yet. Unclear unintuitive.

    As for the odds format, anything accurate is great. Proportions are always better at expressing them. But again, using approximations is ****.
    killerkoala wrote:
    it's because it's a special event token and "bag rags" is available in 3* pool.

    Tight. But no explanation of the implications. Rags is still given out at a higher rate presumably. What's the rate? Dunno. Doesn't say. Unless I'm missing it.


    1:4 in Bag Rags for 3*
    1:4 in Heroic for 3*
    I think he is just added to 3* character drop. idk if he has an increased drop rate.
  • matthatter
    matthatter Posts: 151 Tile Toppler
    PTI,

    I want to give a high five to the mods. I can't imagine having to read every single one of these posts to ensure they fall w/in the T&C. Great work, (gender neutral term of endearment)! Your dedication to your passion is commendable!

    Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.
  • astrp3
    astrp3 Posts: 367 Mover and Shaker
    So now that I think I understand this better (and maybe I still don't), assuming that the old pull percentages for a heroic were the same as they are now (26.5% for a3*, 7.1% for a four), it seems like:

    Under the old system, your chances at drawing a particular character from a heroic (after Coulson is added to the store) would have been 0.63% for 3*s and 0.16% for 4*s,
    Now, your chance of getting a particular one of the 20 chosen 3*s is 1.33% (2.1x better) and for one of the 12 4*s, it's 0.59% (3.66x better).
    If you only select one favorite, your chance of getting it are 1.33% for a 3* and 0.59% for a 4* (still better)
    For two favorites, the chance of getting a particular one of them is 0.66% for a 3* and 0.18% for a 4* (still slightly better)
    For three, it's 0.44% and 0.12% (worse than before).

    So if you want to have a better chance than you did before of getting a particular 3* or 4* that is not in the store, you should only favorite one or two of them.
    But my numbers are probably totally wrong.

    Since I want to max champ all the 3s and 4* someday, this will make it more difficult for the ones that aren't in the stores.
    OTOH, since I have no useable 4s yet, concentrating on a couple of the better ones is probably a better strategy for getting more competitive more quickly.

    It's not as big an effect for 3* covers, since I got a much higher % of them from PvE, PvP, and buying with CP.
    For 4*s covers, the effect will be bigger since I don't have the roster (or maybe its the skill) to get them from PvP progression/placement or PvE placement and do not plan to spend 120 CP on one.
  • Pylgrim
    Pylgrim Posts: 2,332 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2017
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    Pylgrim wrote:
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    I'm just about to go into the 4* transition, and of the ones I have rostered none of them are fully covered let alone champed. Taking them away is completely 100% unacceptable.

    Solution: pick one of the characters that are closer to be max-covered and you look the most forward to play with and make it a favourite. So instead of getting a smattering of 4*s that you may or may not care for, who are close or not to be max-covered, you get a good 4* of your choice max covered and champed much more quickly than you would have before. Then pick the next one you'd like to champ and so on. This will increase your competitiveness at much higher rates that complete randomness allowed in the past. All while getting more quickly fully covered the newer 4*s which include some of the best characters in the game!

    The closest I have is maybe 6 covers. I have almost none of the twelve chosen ones rostered and 100hp. I'm going to hit that progression brick wall really fast. Unbreaking the game would be a far better solution

    If this is the case, your complaint makes even less sense. If the highest 4* you have has 6 covers, (and assuming a somewhat even distribution for sake of the argument), you'd first get one cover of every 4* in the game (an ever-increasing number), before you'd get the second of any given character. Meaning that to get your 6-covered 4* to 13 covers, it would take you a theoretical 315 or so 4* pulls or almost 4,500 heroic tokens (I'm also assuming that you don't get that many Legendary tokens at your roster current status). Obviously, randomness doesn't work like that and you could get it much earlier or much later, but the mean is good enough to draw conclusions.

    On the other hand, under current circumstances, you could make that 6-covered character your favourite and get 7 covers from only 140 4* pulls or less than 2,000 heroic tokens.

    As for roster slots for newer characters... well that always has been an issue and all I can tell you is that once you become more competitive (by, for example, champing more quickly some good 4*s) your HP flow will greatly increase to the point that you will actually start coming head.

    EDIT: With Anthony's new clarification things look even better. It's not 5% of your 3* or 4* pulls but 5% of all your pulls, so, according to Anthony, more like 17% of your 3* and 4* pulls. With that figure, you'd get your 7 covers from only ~700 heroic tokens.
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
    DayvBang wrote:
    nick_chicane wrote:
    I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.
    They definitely implied that the 3* lineup would be changing over time.

    The implication for 4* characters, however, is that the oldest will be displaced as the new ones go in and it will for the foreseeable future contain only the 12 latest 4* at any given time.

    It's a bad move. If they don't walk this back in the next couple of days, I'm probably done. I wish I hadn't renewed VIP this morning.

    I suppose I am not seeing why this is a bad move.

    previously, I spent 20cp. I had a what 1 in 42 chance of getting the character I wanted. (not including 5 stars)
    now, I spend 20CP, I have a 1 in 20 chance of getting the character I want and will also get one of the 12 newest characters.

    alternatively if we look at the chance for 5 stars we went from a what 1 in 70 chance of getting a random cover for a character we want to that plus a second chance to?

    I mean what am I missing?
    the odds to trigger a bonus hero are higher than the previous odds to get any given hero so this just seems to give you newer heroes and a higher chance of getting the heroes you want.
  • iron-n-wine
    iron-n-wine Posts: 495 Mover and Shaker
    Interesting - looks like I may be better off selling my 1-cover Eddie Brock Venom, Carnage, Mr F & Invisible Woman, which would give me 4 roster slots for the 4 4* I dont currently have (Wasp/Riri/Blade/Agent Venom) and then go crazy (for me) opening up 30 Classic Legends (I have about 600 CP)

    At least until I pull a 5* I dont own - but then I just wouldnt roster Wasp etc

    Any thoughts on this approach on cutting my losses with 4*'s that are 'out of the pool', and focusing on these latest 12?

    https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/iron-n-wine/
  • Blergh
    Blergh Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
    Vhailorx wrote:
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    DayvBang wrote:
    astrp3 wrote:
    Previously, you had around a 1/8 chance (don't know the actual #s but basing it on their claim that the new rate is over 2X the old rate) for getting a 3*.

    Now, you have a 1/4 chance of getting one of the 20 selected 3*s
    You see, they used confusing wording there. What they actually meant when they said that 3* drop rates were doubled was that they were doubled for the characters still available in the tokens. This is staggeringly easy to do if you just take out half the possible results.

    And then the 4* characters! They more than tripled the drop rate for the characters in the tokens by taking out more than two-thirds of the characters you could get!

    Are you mad now?

    Hypothetical scenario ....

    Lets imagine instead of removing them they put them in an alternate pool. Well call it the retirement home since it contains old characters. Would you be rushing to then spend all your cp in the retirement home? Orrrr would you still be spending it on the newer characters even with the exact same odds?

    Chances are it'll be option b. The issue isn't that they took people out of the pool (the forum has been wanting that for a while) the issue is you want the ability to choose even though you won't choose. Which has the exact same effect as taking them away.

    Except that LOTS of people would choose the retirement hime if it were priced anywhere close t9 the new characters. People gripe about dilution in classics, but lots of people still buyonly classics, preferring to build up their 5* bench slowly but all together.

    I always go classic as I play off and on depending how busy I am. Ghostwriter so some of my contracts can be quite time intensive and have a PHD thing going on.

    I want to build up all my fours, specailly as the older ones are my best covers. I kind rely on the older characters. I don't play to be competitive, but more as a distraction.

    Even with the added iso and rewards coming in from these random pulls I am struggling to level all my maxed covered fours to champ level. Restricting it to the newest fours will make this worse. Less champ rewards, less ability to level, more useless dupes. Less of a reason to use tokens for the 5% chance of something useful. I mean I could channel all BH to Fury for increased rewards but really...? And its progress and collecting to an extent that draws me back.

    So this totally ruins my plan to level most fours and progress. Think it will totally hinders the more slow, casual player that takes long breaks as it effectively ruins the strongest portions of my roster.

    Kind of feel like this change just leaves the majority of my roster that I've been collecting on and off for about three years(seriously my first post on here is April 2014 to find an alliance when they made them) totally stagnant too.

    Not saying evil its evil incarnate nor is it a raging how dare you post. Just saying to players like me it gives them less of an incentive to return after a break.
  • Wumpushunter
    Wumpushunter Posts: 627 Critical Contributor
    So if I have almost all covers for those 4 stars not on this list for example Mordo, quake, or iceman I will never be able to draw them unless they are rewards from some event?
  • broll
    broll Posts: 4,732 Chairperson of the Boards
    Brigby wrote:
    *Updated post with an exclusive drop-rate breakdown from Demiurge's developer, Anthony.
    Appreciate the effort but it still smells like polish on a turd to me. I'll give it a few weeks and see how it plays out but chances are high I'm done spending anything on this game if not finding better ways to spend my time...
  • rixmith
    rixmith Posts: 707 Critical Contributor
    This change looks great for me. I have all the older 4*'s champed, and now I can easily get the newer ones up to the level where they can win their DDQ and get champed. I've spend a couple hundred CP and pulled a bonus 5* and a bonus 4*, and gotten a bonus 3* from a LR Standard Token. So far it looks great to me.
  • Uthgarprime
    Uthgarprime Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
    I guess since there isn't a guarantee you cover a given 4* before it leaves the latest, would it make more sense to horde even more. So like 300 LL pulls for the 3 5*'s and about 6 million ISO so you can champion everyone you pull? I guess I will have to think about how I want to progress going forward. I think this is going to cause even more hording which we know they hate, but that is where they are herding everyone.
  • catcusvader
    catcusvader Posts: 93 Match Maker
    PTI
    I want to give a high five to the late arriving readers. I can't imagine having to read every single one of these posts to ensure they know whats going on. Great work, ( icon_e_geek.gif )! Your dedication to know whats happening is commendable!

    Now, back to your regularly scheduled beebop bonanza twist.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    rixmith wrote:
    This change looks great for me. I have all the older 4*'s champed, and now I can easily get the newer ones up to the level where they can win their DDQ and get champed. I've spend a couple hundred CP and pulled a bonus 5* and a bonus 4*, and gotten a bonus 3* from a LR Standard Token. So far it looks great to me.


    Have you ever seen a 370 cyclops or Rulk? And when devastating at that level. Amd whem boosted FROM 370, they are easily better than any 5* in the game. Now even fewer players will ever have a chance to see a champ 4* above level 320, let alone 370. That is the downside to this change, and it's a very big one. Now there are clearly some upsides to this set of changes too.

    But as is often the case. Demi has tied together a set of player-friendly and player-unfriendly changes, presumably so that we won't be as upset about the unfriendly changes. And as is also often the case, there was no particular reason to tie them together. We could have had all the uspide of the favorites system without any change to token odds. So stop to think why demi has done both at the same time. . .
  • ZeiramMR
    ZeiramMR Posts: 1,357 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think people have covered most of what I would have posted already, but jumping in with a question a few days early:

    When the next character rebalance happens in a week, it sounds like those characters will not get added to the limited selection of 3* and 4* characters in the packs unless they were already there? (Which if it is finally 3* Spider-Man's turn, that is covered.) And if the character is NOT in the packs, we have to use the Favorite system or hope for event-specific rewards to re-spec a non-Championed character?
  • zulux21
    zulux21 Posts: 249 Tile Toppler
    Vhailorx wrote:
    rixmith wrote:
    This change looks great for me. I have all the older 4*'s champed, and now I can easily get the newer ones up to the level where they can win their DDQ and get champed. I've spend a couple hundred CP and pulled a bonus 5* and a bonus 4*, and gotten a bonus 3* from a LR Standard Token. So far it looks great to me.


    Have you ever seen a 370 cyclops or Rulk? And when devastating at that level. Amd whem boosted FROM 370, they are easily better than any 5* in the game. Now even fewer players will ever have a chance to see a champ 4* above level 320, let alone 370. That is the downside to this change, and it's a very big one. Now there are clearly some upsides to this change too.
    but why?
    before this change at 20cp you had a 1 in 40+ chance of getting the 4 star you wanted (ignoring 5 stars)
    now you have a 1 in 20 if you make them your favorite 4 star. (again ignoring 5 stars as I don't want to deal with figuring out that math icon_razz.gif)

    you want the love to be spread across a few characters you can do that.

    I mean if you are hoping for one of 10 old characters then yes your odds are decreased a little, but at the same time you will get to build up the newer characters while getting the older ones.

    in general with the change if your goal is to build a level 370 it seems like it is easier then ever o.O
  • whycantwesyncpc
    whycantwesyncpc Posts: 188 Tile Toppler
    Pylgrim wrote:
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    Pylgrim wrote:
    whycantwesyncpc wrote:
    I'm just about to go into the 4* transition, and of the ones I have rostered none of them are fully covered let alone champed. Taking them away is completely 100% unacceptable.

    Solution: pick one of the characters that are closer to be max-covered and you look the most forward to play with and make it a favourite. So instead of getting a smattering of 4*s that you may or may not care for, who are close or not to be max-covered, you get a good 4* of your choice max covered and champed much more quickly than you would have before. Then pick the next one you'd like to champ and so on. This will increase your competitiveness at much higher rates that complete randomness allowed in the past. All while getting more quickly fully covered the newer 4*s which include some of the best characters in the game!

    The closest I have is maybe 6 covers. I have almost none of the twelve chosen ones rostered and 100hp. I'm going to hit that progression brick wall really fast. Unbreaking the game would be a far better solution

    If this is the case, your complaint makes even less sense. If the highest 4* you have has 6 covers, (and assuming a somewhat even distribution for sake of the argument), you'd first get one cover of every 4* in the game (an ever-increasing number), before you'd get the second of any given character. Meaning that to get your 6-covered 4* to 13 covers, it would take you a theoretical 315 or so 4* pulls or almost 4,500 heroic tokens (I'm also assuming that you don't get that many Legendary tokens at your roster current status). Obviously, randomness doesn't work like that and you could get it much earlier or much later, but the mean is good enough to draw conclusions.

    On the other hand, under current circumstances, you could make that 6-covered character your favourite and get 7 covers from only 140 4* pulls or less than 2,000 heroic tokens.

    As for roster slots for newer characters... well that always has been an issue and all I can tell you is that once you become more competitive (by, for example, champing more quickly some good 4*s) your HP flow will greatly increase to the point that you will actually start coming head.

    EDIT: With Anthony's new clarification things look even better. It's not 5% of your 3* or 4* pulls but 5% of all your pulls, so, according to Anthony, more like 17% of your 3* and 4* pulls. With that figure, you'd get your 7 covers from only ~700 heroic tokens.

    It's still pure stupid. I have almost none of the chose rostered. I have a large number of the earlier ones rostered. Actually being able to use covers pulled is better than drawing and letting them rot. Why would I want to champ a single 4*, it's just going to screw up scaling for the rest of my roster. Of course this is greedy devs trying to force us to pony up for hero points to roster the new characters. Pure greed, nothing else. If this was about making it easier to separate characters as things get diluted they wouldn't lock the old ones away. Why don't we just be honest about the flat out greed?
  • Lytes420
    Lytes420 Posts: 63 Match Maker
    iron-n-wine wrote:
    Interesting - looks like I may be better off selling my 1-cover Eddie Brock Venom, Carnage, Mr F & Invisible Woman, which would give me 4 roster slots for the 4 4* I dont currently have (Wasp/Riri/Blade/Agent Venom) and then go crazy (for me) opening up 30 Classic Legends (I have about 600 CP)

    At least until I pull a 5* I dont own - but then I just wouldnt roster Wasp etc

    Any thoughts on this approach on cutting my losses with 4*'s that are 'out of the pool', and focusing on these latest 12?

    https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/iron-n-wine/
    Iron-n-wine,I think it boils down to whether you focus more on pvp or pve.if it's pve,those 1 cover characters are eventually going to be essentials,an you will eventually get more covers for them from progression rewards,etc.if it's more pvp,those roster slots could be usefull.i'd definetly free up at least one for blade,those other 3,not so much.

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