New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

Nepenthe

OneLastGambit wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

astrp3 wrote:

Previously, you had around a 1/8 chance (don't know the actual #s but basing it on their claim that the new rate is over 2X the old rate) for getting a 3*.

Now, you have a 1/4 chance of getting one of the 20 selected 3*s

You see, they used confusing wording there. What they actually meant when they said that 3* drop rates were doubled was that they were doubled for the characters still available in the tokens. This is staggeringly easy to do if you just take out half the possible results.

And then the 4* characters! They more than tripled the drop rate for the characters in the tokens by taking out more than two-thirds of the characters you could get!

Are you mad now?

Hypothetical scenario ....

Lets imagine instead of removing them they put them in an alternate pool. Well call it the retirement home since it contains old characters. Would you be rushing to then spend all your cp in the retirement home? Orrrr would you still be spending it on the newer characters even with the exact same odds?

Chances are it'll be option b. The issue isn't that they took people out of the pool (the forum has been wanting that for a while) the issue is you want the ability to choose even though you won't choose. Which has the exact same effect as taking them away.

I would ABSOLUTELY be pulling from the retirement home. I have those characters championed already, so I get champ rewarda and no risk of wasted covers or having to scrounge up 300k iso in a hurry. Once I had about a million iso reserved and the 12 newest had some good characters, only then would I switch, temporarily, to the newer tokens.

Don't assume that everyone would make the same choice as you.

astrp3

DayvBang wrote:

You see, they used confusing wording there. What they actually meant when they said that 3* drop rates were doubled was that they were doubled for the characters still available in the tokens. This is staggeringly easy to do if you just take out half the possible results.
And then the 4* characters! They more than tripled the drop rate for the characters in the tokens by taking out more than two-thirds of the characters you could get!
Are you mad now?

Ah, thanks for the clarification. That's not nearly as good as I thought - though I'm not mad about it and don't think the Bonus Heroes feature was a deliberate attempt to stick itto the players like some do).

So were the old odds of a 3* pull from a Heroic still 26,5%?

That's the percentage I see when I click the question mark on the store front page. My iPad version didn't have the question mark until today (I know i was in the online version and looked for it on my iPad, but never saw it until I got the Bonus Heroes update). Also, my version lists actual percentages for the stores, not ratios, so I'm not sure where people are seeing the ratios.

mwc

I hate this change for the simple fact it made my game unplayable. Can't even get into the app since this stuff has been pushed out. Anyone else having similar issues on Android 5.0.1?

firethorne

I also wish they would take some time discussing options with us before implementing, rather than just trying to keep everything super secret and redacting everything. Devs, you know it might be of use to know where the pitfalls are, before rushing head first into them.

Tiggida

Not sure if this has been said already, but why not make the latests tokens have the 3 newest 5*s and 12 newest 4*s and then put all the rest of the 4*s and 5*s into the classic tokens? Just extend the definition of latest and classic to include the 4* tier as well as the 5* tier.

whycantwesyncpc

Pylgrim wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I'm just about to go into the 4* transition, and of the ones I have rostered none of them are fully covered let alone champed. Taking them away is completely 100% unacceptable.

Solution: pick one of the characters that are closer to be max-covered and you look the most forward to play with and make it a favourite. So instead of getting a smattering of 4*s that you may or may not care for, who are close or not to be max-covered, you get a good 4* of your choice max covered and champed much more quickly than you would have before. Then pick the next one you'd like to champ and so on. This will increase your competitiveness at much higher rates that complete randomness allowed in the past. All while getting more quickly fully covered the newer 4*s which include some of the best characters in the game!

The closest I have is maybe 6 covers. I have almost none of the twelve chosen ones rostered and 100hp. I'm going to hit that progression brick wall really fast. Unbreaking the game would be a far better solution

fmftint

OneLastGambit wrote:

Hypothetical scenario ....

Lets imagine instead of removing them they put them in an alternate pool. Well call it the retirement home since it contains old characters. Would you be rushing to then spend all your cp in the retirement home? Orrrr would you still be spending it on the newer characters even with the exact same odds?

Chances are it'll be option b. The issue isn't that they took people out of the pool (the forum has been wanting that for a while) the issue is you want the ability to choose even though you won't choose. Which has the exact same effect as taking them away.

If you're a player like me with over 30 champ 4 s, you're G*D D**N right I'd be pulling from the retirement home. I cover new characters fast enough in the old system that I don't need them forced down my throat. Of the 12 most recent currently in packs I have 6 full covered and or championed and 2 more 1 cover away

smkspy

fanghoul wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

smkspy wrote:

When on gf's account where she only has 3 of the current 12 fours rostered. This pretty much kills any forward progression she had when it came to 4s.

Hrrm? This should accelerate her progress on those 12 4s, particularly the ones she doesn't have. Now nearly 4x more likely to draw them!

And if she has older 4*s she wants to work on, have her pick the 2 older 4*s as her favorites.

Boom.

At 1/40 odds of one of those being a bonus character drawn, she is now progressing with those two characters slightly faster than before the change.

And if the bonus effect never or rarely drops for her because it resets every time you pull a new token?

This just doubles down on the hoarding mentality for anyone that doesn't have every character already rostered. She barely was making pulls as it was, maybe one per week, now she has zero incentive to pull because the characters she is chasing HB and Rulk are now based on rng inside rng.

For some on tier of almost quitting, this all of buts guarantees it for her. Sunshine moment, I get my game back lol.

Really, this changes really drives home that we need a daily 4 star deadpool now.more than ever.

Brigby

*Updated post with an exclusive drop-rate breakdown from Demiurge's developer, Anthony.

killerkoala

aesthetocyst wrote:

Vhailorx wrote:

Kind of shocked to hear that you like it.

Like what where and when? When I said, "Overall the odds display is a lot more sophisticated and polished."? That's in reference to the overall presentation. Color scheme, layout, use of visuals, typography, etc. It's not perfect, but it's beautiful compared to all preceding UI efforts.

Less informative, less accurate, and the big "?" in the bottom goes to the Bonus Heroes FAQ. ****? That should be a link to a "How the hell do I read this new table?" guide. Need for such a guide demonstrates it ain't perfection yet. Unclear unintuitive.

As for the odds format, anything accurate is great. Proportions are always better at expressing them. But again, using approximations is ****.

killerkoala wrote:

it's because it's a special event token and "bag rags" is available in 3* pool.

Tight. But no explanation of the implications. Rags is still given out at a higher rate presumably. What's the rate? Dunno. Doesn't say. Unless I'm missing it.

1:4 in Bag Rags for 3*
1:4 in Heroic for 3*
I think he is just added to 3* character drop. idk if he has an increased drop rate.

matthatter

PTI,

I want to give a high five to the mods. I can't imagine having to read every single one of these posts to ensure they fall w/in the T&C. Great work, (gender neutral term of endearment)! Your dedication to your passion is commendable!

Now, back to your regularly scheduled program.

astrp3

So now that I think I understand this better (and maybe I still don't), assuming that the old pull percentages for a heroic were the same as they are now (26.5% for a3*, 7.1% for a four), it seems like:

Under the old system, your chances at drawing a particular character from a heroic (after Coulson is added to the store) would have been 0.63% for 3*s and 0.16% for 4*s,
Now, your chance of getting a particular one of the 20 chosen 3*s is 1.33% (2.1x better) and for one of the 12 4*s, it's 0.59% (3.66x better).
If you only select one favorite, your chance of getting it are 1.33% for a 3* and 0.59% for a 4* (still better)
For two favorites, the chance of getting a particular one of them is 0.66% for a 3* and 0.18% for a 4* (still slightly better)
For three, it's 0.44% and 0.12% (worse than before).

So if you want to have a better chance than you did before of getting a particular 3* or 4* that is not in the store, you should only favorite one or two of them.
But my numbers are probably totally wrong.

Since I want to max champ all the 3s and 4* someday, this will make it more difficult for the ones that aren't in the stores.
OTOH, since I have no useable 4s yet, concentrating on a couple of the better ones is probably a better strategy for getting more competitive more quickly.

It's not as big an effect for 3* covers, since I got a much higher % of them from PvE, PvP, and buying with CP.
For 4*s covers, the effect will be bigger since I don't have the roster (or maybe its the skill) to get them from PvP progression/placement or PvE placement and do not plan to spend 120 CP on one.

Pylgrim

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I'm just about to go into the 4* transition, and of the ones I have rostered none of them are fully covered let alone champed. Taking them away is completely 100% unacceptable.

Solution: pick one of the characters that are closer to be max-covered and you look the most forward to play with and make it a favourite. So instead of getting a smattering of 4*s that you may or may not care for, who are close or not to be max-covered, you get a good 4* of your choice max covered and champed much more quickly than you would have before. Then pick the next one you'd like to champ and so on. This will increase your competitiveness at much higher rates that complete randomness allowed in the past. All while getting more quickly fully covered the newer 4*s which include some of the best characters in the game!

The closest I have is maybe 6 covers. I have almost none of the twelve chosen ones rostered and 100hp. I'm going to hit that progression brick wall really fast. Unbreaking the game would be a far better solution

If this is the case, your complaint makes even less sense. If the highest 4* you have has 6 covers, (and assuming a somewhat even distribution for sake of the argument), you'd first get one cover of every 4* in the game (an ever-increasing number), before you'd get the second of any given character. Meaning that to get your 6-covered 4* to 13 covers, it would take you a theoretical 315 or so 4* pulls or almost 4,500 heroic tokens (I'm also assuming that you don't get that many Legendary tokens at your roster current status). Obviously, randomness doesn't work like that and you could get it much earlier or much later, but the mean is good enough to draw conclusions.

On the other hand, under current circumstances, you could make that 6-covered character your favourite and get 7 covers from only 140 4* pulls or less than 2,000 heroic tokens.

As for roster slots for newer characters... well that always has been an issue and all I can tell you is that once you become more competitive (by, for example, champing more quickly some good 4*s) your HP flow will greatly increase to the point that you will actually start coming head.

EDIT: With Anthony's new clarification things look even better. It's not 5% of your 3* or 4* pulls but 5% of all your pulls, so, according to Anthony, more like 17% of your 3* and 4* pulls. With that figure, you'd get your 7 covers from only ~700 heroic tokens.

zulux21

DayvBang wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

I've seen nothing that says the older 3* and 4*s will never appear in packs again. Clearly, that would be ridiculous. What I'm expecting to see is that all the items will get rotated at various intervals. Until I see that doesn't happen I'm not going to jump to conclusions.

They definitely implied that the 3* lineup would be changing over time.

The implication for 4* characters, however, is that the oldest will be displaced as the new ones go in and it will for the foreseeable future contain only the 12 latest 4* at any given time.

It's a bad move. If they don't walk this back in the next couple of days, I'm probably done. I wish I hadn't renewed VIP this morning.

I suppose I am not seeing why this is a bad move.

previously, I spent 20cp. I had a what 1 in 42 chance of getting the character I wanted. (not including 5 stars)
now, I spend 20CP, I have a 1 in 20 chance of getting the character I want and will also get one of the 12 newest characters.

alternatively if we look at the chance for 5 stars we went from a what 1 in 70 chance of getting a random cover for a character we want to that plus a second chance to?

I mean what am I missing?
the odds to trigger a bonus hero are higher than the previous odds to get any given hero so this just seems to give you newer heroes and a higher chance of getting the heroes you want.

iron-n-wine

Interesting - looks like I may be better off selling my 1-cover Eddie Brock Venom, Carnage, Mr F & Invisible Woman, which would give me 4 roster slots for the 4 4* I dont currently have (Wasp/Riri/Blade/Agent Venom) and then go crazy (for me) opening up 30 Classic Legends (I have about 600 CP)

At least until I pull a 5* I dont own - but then I just wouldnt roster Wasp etc

Any thoughts on this approach on cutting my losses with 4*'s that are 'out of the pool', and focusing on these latest 12?

https://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/iron-n-wine/

Blergh

Vhailorx wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

DayvBang wrote:

astrp3 wrote:

Previously, you had around a 1/8 chance (don't know the actual #s but basing it on their claim that the new rate is over 2X the old rate) for getting a 3*.

Now, you have a 1/4 chance of getting one of the 20 selected 3*s

You see, they used confusing wording there. What they actually meant when they said that 3* drop rates were doubled was that they were doubled for the characters still available in the tokens. This is staggeringly easy to do if you just take out half the possible results.

And then the 4* characters! They more than tripled the drop rate for the characters in the tokens by taking out more than two-thirds of the characters you could get!

Are you mad now?

Hypothetical scenario ....

Lets imagine instead of removing them they put them in an alternate pool. Well call it the retirement home since it contains old characters. Would you be rushing to then spend all your cp in the retirement home? Orrrr would you still be spending it on the newer characters even with the exact same odds?

Chances are it'll be option b. The issue isn't that they took people out of the pool (the forum has been wanting that for a while) the issue is you want the ability to choose even though you won't choose. Which has the exact same effect as taking them away.

Except that LOTS of people would choose the retirement hime if it were priced anywhere close t9 the new characters. People gripe about dilution in classics, but lots of people still buyonly classics, preferring to build up their 5* bench slowly but all together.

I always go classic as I play off and on depending how busy I am. Ghostwriter so some of my contracts can be quite time intensive and have a PHD thing going on.

I want to build up all my fours, specailly as the older ones are my best covers. I kind rely on the older characters. I don't play to be competitive, but more as a distraction.

Even with the added iso and rewards coming in from these random pulls I am struggling to level all my maxed covered fours to champ level. Restricting it to the newest fours will make this worse. Less champ rewards, less ability to level, more useless dupes. Less of a reason to use tokens for the 5% chance of something useful. I mean I could channel all BH to Fury for increased rewards but really...? And its progress and collecting to an extent that draws me back.

So this totally ruins my plan to level most fours and progress. Think it will totally hinders the more slow, casual player that takes long breaks as it effectively ruins the strongest portions of my roster.

Kind of feel like this change just leaves the majority of my roster that I've been collecting on and off for about three years(seriously my first post on here is April 2014 to find an alliance when they made them) totally stagnant too.

Not saying evil its evil incarnate nor is it a raging how dare you post. Just saying to players like me it gives them less of an incentive to return after a break.

Wumpushunter

So if I have almost all covers for those 4 stars not on this list for example Mordo, quake, or iceman I will never be able to draw them unless they are rewards from some event?

broll

Brigby wrote:

*Updated post with an exclusive drop-rate breakdown from Demiurge's developer, Anthony.

Appreciate the effort but it still smells like polish on a turd to me. I'll give it a few weeks and see how it plays out but chances are high I'm done spending anything on this game if not finding better ways to spend my time...

rixmith

This change looks great for me. I have all the older 4*'s champed, and now I can easily get the newer ones up to the level where they can win their DDQ and get champed. I've spend a couple hundred CP and pulled a bonus 5* and a bonus 4*, and gotten a bonus 3* from a LR Standard Token. So far it looks great to me.

Uthgarprime

I guess since there isn't a guarantee you cover a given 4* before it leaves the latest, would it make more sense to horde even more. So like 300 LL pulls for the 3 5*'s and about 6 million ISO so you can champion everyone you pull? I guess I will have to think about how I want to progress going forward. I think this is going to cause even more hording which we know they hate, but that is where they are herding everyone.