New Feature: Bonus Heroes! *Updated (3/1/17)

D4Ni13

qandols wrote:

TL; DR Today I earned a Standard Token. I opened it and to my surprise it was 3* BWGS AND a bonus IF. That's great! But does it mean I will never have to see 1* from standards anymore?

You were just very lucky. I opened all kinds of tokens today including Standard, Elite, 1xHeroic, 10xHeroic Pack (from the current season) and 2xLT and yet not one single bonus. The standard gave me 1* and 2*, so don't worry, you'll have your 1* heroes.

Magic

Since I had some Kate covers already dying on the vine i went in with my CP to get the elusive blue. Took me 20 pulls and she is a champion now. Thanks to the new fav feature Carol D is maxed covered and waiting for ISO as well. So out of 12 4* in the selection I have 3 championed (well 2 - Kate and Peggy but Carol will be there soon). Spider-W is maxed covered but I have no intention of championing here (i will rather wait her out of the rotation) - I have sold 3 covers today from the pulls. Moonknight needs one cover but I doubt I will get it before he rotates. Other then him - only Medusa is my championing target. The others will be sold for ISO when they are maxed covered.

The new feature changed my approach as before I meant to champion all of them. But since I can choose not to get any Electra covers (or later Wasp or Agent Venom) I see no point it investing ISO in them. Crash level is max I am willing to go.

And coming to think about it - I like it.

Another advantage - the small pool of heroes makes the new release way more relaxed. You will keep getting the covers soon. Look at my Carol - I have never maxed a character this quickly. And with this feature it will happen again.

Bloody_Marvel

I can see a rather simple solution to this problem:

Legendary tokens:
Latest 3 5* covers
Latest 12 4* covers

Command Points:
Remaining 10 5*
Remaining 33 4* covers

That way you can still obtain the older 4* covers through Command Points.

DesertTortoise

I picked Carol as my lone 4-star favorite, opened a few LRs and a 40 pack. The result was my Carol went from 1/3/3 to 2/5/5 and I also got two Medusa covers so I championed her immediately. There was an insane element of luck in all of this, of course, but it was nice to have control over who I was drawing. I'm now saving up 120 CP for that last Carol cover because I believe that's an acceptable value for her. After that flurry, I'm in a bit of an iso hole, so I switched my favorites to some of my lower covered, high tier characters that are vaulted (like Jean, who is 3/4/4 and Star-Lord, who is 5/1/0) for the time being in case I get lucky and pull a bonus 4-star from a heroic.

I think there was some comfort in the linearity of the old system of champ every 4-star so no 4-star cover goes to waste, but I don't think that's what we should be striving for. My optimistic hope if we'll want to champ every 4-star anyway if they continue to update the low tier characters as well as they have been recently.

I think the most ideal system would be to make latest legendaries contain the three most recent 5-stars and the twelve most recent 4-stars. Allow the classic legendaries to be three 5-stars and twelve 4-stars that are not included in the latest packs that are chosen by the player. Even better if we could set those both at the same price of 20 CP.

This is sort of a stream of consciousness. I think this is an excellent first step but I hope both the players and the devs will be patient in the short term to really see what problems come from this end up being and swift to change things for the better based on those findings.

firethorne

Bloody Marvel wrote:

I can see a rather simple solution to this problem:

Legendary tokens:
Latest 3 5* covers
Latest 12 4* covers

Command Points:
Remaining 10 5*
Remaining 33 4* covers

That way you can still obtain the older 4* covers through Command Points.

I think the only real problem with this is the people in my boat, who have a fair number of the older 4*'s covered and champed, but don't have a single 5* fully covered. It keeps us in the state where, if we want to try and get the 5*'s we really want from classics, we'll continue to get a lot of wasted 4*'s, and if we focus on latest, we'll never finish all of the 5*'s that have been released.

smkspy

I think my problem with it is that it just continues and worsens the 5 star lottery scheme. Except now, older 4s and favorites have become glorified 5s.

So yay, some people are pulling bonus 4s, equally many people are going bone dry. It is nit a good thing to double down on something so many complain about as one of the number one reasons they hate acquiring the 5 star tier.

That being said, as a 4 star player, I do like them focusing on the latest 4s a bit (though 15-16 would have been a beer number imo), but all they needed to do was create a 3rd LT for those oldest and they could have further split the older 5s into that as well.

All this is needlessly complicated just to force to people to roster and play with the new toys that few were really using.

whycantwesyncpc

So I decided to look at my roster and actually do the math to see just how royally screwed I am by the changes.

I am assuming I start the 4* transition at the start of next season as I still have 2 3*'s to champ. That means after the first rotation of the chosen 12.

I will need the following:

700 hp, I have 100

4534752 iso assuming champing these characters which would totally screw up my roster and scaling forcing me to basically only be able to play these 12. That is also assuming I get these last 2 champed by then which is unlikely so I will likely need to collect even more iso. How the hell am I supposed to put that kind of iso together?

I am going to have to collect all of this with less champ rewards do to characters I am no longer worth of getting champ levels for, thanks...


This means that if I redeem any kind of legendary there is a 58.33% change it will be completely useless unless until I can put together the hp to roster it. Again with less resources coming in. That is assuming that I pull a 4*. Pull a 5* and then I am royally screwed as I only have 1, black bolt that is in classics. If I pull from classics what are the odds that I pull him and not someone else and get put in an even bigger HP crunch?

Tell me again why I shouldn't feel screwed by these changes? Why should I even consider trying to go into the 4* tier? Why I should keep playing at all? I am never going to keep up with these resource needs. I am never going to progress in this game. Never in the time frame allowed since they keep rotating stuff out of the chose making the resource needs higher as I'll never get anything done by the time stuff starts moving out again.

They just put a giant brick wall in front of me with "FU for wanting to progress" graffitied all over it and I am not supposed to feel completely f'd over?

Thanks for taking my favorite game away from me. I'm going to go cry now

Vhailorx

8punch wrote:

i figured actually out why they used the 12 level 4 card bracket for legends

this way it is much easier for whales to get their level 4 cards max champed. they dont get the old cards anymore, which they already have champed and has no more value for them.

Maybe. But "champed" is hardly the endgame for whales. They want 370 4*s that they can use with their 5* rosters.

GurlBYE

firethorne wrote:

Bloody Marvel wrote:

I can see a rather simple solution to this problem:

Legendary tokens:
Latest 3 5* covers
Latest 12 4* covers

Command Points:
Remaining 10 5*
Remaining 33 4* covers

That way you can still obtain the older 4* covers through Command Points.

I think the only real problem with this is the people in my boat, who have a fair number of the older 4*'s covered and champed, but don't have a single 5* fully covered. It keeps us in the state where, if we want to try and get the 5*'s we really want from classics, we'll continue to get a lot of wasted 4*'s, and if we focus on latest, we'll never finish all of the 5*'s that have been released.

They didn't increase the rates in 5 star packs. So I can't see how it'll change anything. You'll just get a bunch of the newest 12, and unless you champ them quickly, will remain that way for 24 weeks.

The 4's and 5's don't have equal probability, the 5's have a much much lower rate.
It's actually more likely you have the 4's they removed fully champed and ready to go.

DesertTortoise

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

So I decided to look at my roster and actually do the math to see just how royally screwed I am by the changes.

I will need the following:

700 hp, I have 100

This is honestly coming from a good place and I'm not trying to be rude, but is this a miscalculation or a typo? I don't think a 600 HP hole is worth complaining about.

4534752 iso assuming champing these characters which would totally screw up my roster and scaling forcing me to basically only be able to play these 12. That is also assuming I get these last 2 champed by then which is unlikely so I will likely need to collect even more iso. How the hell am I supposed to put that kind of iso together?

Doing the math, it appears you believe you're expected to champion all twelve of the non-vaulted four stars. That's not really a fair comparison since you could easily say that you'd have to champion all 40+ of the current 4-stars if there wasn't any vaulting. Looking at the 4-star transition from afar is always messy and the numbers will always seem overwhelming. This is a problem that isn't unique to the bonus heroes.

This means that if I redeem any kind of legendary there is a 58.33% change it will be completely useless unless until I can put together the hp to roster it. Again with less resources coming in. That is assuming that I pull a 4*. Pull a 5* and then I am royally screwed as I only have 1, black bolt that is in classics. If I pull from classics what are the odds that I pull him and not someone else and get put in an even bigger HP crunch?

This was always the case. In the old system you were expected to roster all 4-stars as well. This is not a new obstacle. In fact, you now only have to worry about 12 4-star to potentially roster rather than the 40+ it used to be so in some ways it's safer to pull LRs if you have the 12 current characters already rostered.

Do you have a link to your roster? I'd be happy to provide help/strategy with this new system. It changes things but not necessarily for the worst.

madok

I do have to give them props for releasing a feature that has generated even more "conversations" than Boss Rush did.

cozmo1682

So far, I haven't seen a bonus hero either yet. I haven't opened that many tokens, but basically 95% of the time you're going to get no bonus which makes the vaulting even harder to understand.

fmftint

Here's my issue, this change invalidates 3-4 months of championing, I'm never going to favorite Elektra, Reed, Sue, Miles, Gwen, XFW, Antman, etc, and they're all out of the dwar pool so they are now a several million iso write off

But you can get them as placement, progression and vault rewards! Great, once or twice a year I'll get +1/2 covers for them

whycantwesyncpc

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

So I decided to look at my roster and actually do the math to see just how royally screwed I am by the changes.

I will need the following:

700 hp, I have 100

This is honestly coming from a good place and I'm not trying to be rude, but is this a miscalculation or a typo? I don't think a 600 HP hole is worth complaining about.

4534752 iso assuming champing these characters which would totally screw up my roster and scaling forcing me to basically only be able to play these 12. That is also assuming I get these last 2 champed by then which is unlikely so I will likely need to collect even more iso. How the hell am I supposed to put that kind of iso together?

Doing the math, it appears you believe you're expected to champion all twelve of the non-vaulted four stars. That's not really a fair comparison since you could easily say that you'd have to champion all 40+ of the current 4-stars if there wasn't any vaulting. Looking at the 4-star transition from afar is always messy and the numbers will always seem overwhelming. This is a problem that isn't unique to the bonus heroes.

This means that if I redeem any kind of legendary there is a 58.33% change it will be completely useless unless until I can put together the hp to roster it. Again with less resources coming in. That is assuming that I pull a 4*. Pull a 5* and then I am royally screwed as I only have 1, black bolt that is in classics. If I pull from classics what are the odds that I pull him and not someone else and get put in an even bigger HP crunch?

This was always the case. In the old system you were expected to roster all 4-stars as well. This is not a new obstacle. In fact, you now only have to worry about 12 4-star to potentially roster rather than the 40+ it used to be so in some ways it's safer to pull LRs if you have the 12 current characters already rostered.

Do you have a link to your roster? I'd be happy to provide help/strategy with this new system. It changes things but not necessarily for the worst.

You're right, that was a typo, I need 7000 hp. That will take forever to do. Even without losing all the champ rewards from losing the unworthy characters that would take so long even more will rotate out causing me to need more hp.

I did say assuming champing them. Realistically under the new system odds are I will never be able to build up the resources to champ any 4*'s, at least not in a way that wouldn't totally screw up my roster or scaling. In the old system I could slowly build up my 4* roster and start champing when it sense down the line. With the new system virtually all I am going to get is the latest 12 so if I don't try to champ them there is nothing to do with my roster.

Don't have my roster updated online and not going to waste the time now that it's clear I'm not wanted in the game. I have every 2 and 3 star, all 3 star champed except for thanos and blade. I have all but 15 4* rostered but poorly covered I'm 1-2 rotations away from any hope of progression being a complete joke.

Nellobee

How are new players ever supposed to beat CotT in the future with this change?

GurlBYE

DesertTortoise wrote:

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

So I decided to look at my roster and actually do the math to see just how royally screwed I am by the changes.

I will need the following:

700 hp, I have 100

This is honestly coming from a good place and I'm not trying to be rude, but is this a miscalculation or a typo? I don't think a 600 HP hole is worth complaining about.

Everyone in this game is not in the same place. Perspective is necessary before you respond to criticism. I have 5000 HP, but I spend it fast then I've earned it. Roster slots cost A LOT, you don't know if he's just bought slots for a 2 farm, a new 4, or because of the ddq changes.

If HP were really a free flowing fountain do you not think they'd have not changed that considering it's the most important resource to actually roster characters?

GurlBYE

Nellobee wrote:

How are new players ever supposed to beat CotT in the future with this change?

I don't think that was considered, and this is a pretty funny change following the change to DDQ.

That extra taco and 2 CP is for full rosters only.

DesertTortoise

whycantwesyncpc wrote:

I have every 2 and 3 star, all 3 star champed except for thanos and blade. I have all but 15 4* rostered but poorly covered I'm 1-2 rotations away from any hope of progression being a complete joke.

The 4-star transition is a tough one (I'm just getting started, I have 11 champed 4-stars), but you had a tremendous amount of resources you'd need to get in order before you transitioned well before these bonus changes. You really need to roster all 25 of the 4-stars you don't have, regardless of this change. It depends on your roster, but this change could actually be good for you (and the HP you need) if you approach it a certain way. It's very roster dependent, of course, but I wouldn't feel too left behind just yet.

Quebbster

Nellobee wrote:

How are new players ever supposed to beat CotT in the future with this change?

Selective use of the bonus hero feature to build one fourstar up at a time. It is an interesting dichotomy though since the most recent fourstars do not get a Crash until they have been awarded a second time in PvE. Gwenpool, Luke Cage, Spider-Woman, Wasp and Peggy Carter all pass that test, but the more recent fourstars may be excluded from the next cycle - I am specifically looking at Agent Coulson who should be at the start of the list. Captain Marvel may be tricky to fit in too. Heck, Agent Venom may not have a second reward Before the cycle restarts soon.

BoyWonder1914

- Immediately made older people that I have trouble acquiring my favorites (Nova, Big Pun, Hulkbuster, Teen Jean, Star Lord, Ant-Man)
- Opened a classic for 20 CP since I have it to burn
- Medusa, with a bonus Nova

If I can look forward to getting this bonus cover EVERY time I open a classic or latest, then by all means I welcome this change. Because for someone who has a lot of CP to burn, but it is still wary of blowing 120 for a single specific cover, this definitely helps alleviate a lot of that risk by just making that person a favorite. The less favorite's you have, you're essentially guaranteeing your odds of pulling that specific character as bonus.

However, these bonus covers still have colors.....so you're at no less of a risk of pulling a bonus cover that ends up being unusable. Also, I'm not really seeing the sense in taking this feature away from vaults. Vaults already have a limited selection of characters, which is what you've essentially gone and done with the Classic/Latest stores - you've changed them from all-containing stores (as long as 4*s are concerned anyway) into limited vaults with only the 12 latest. Good idea overall, it will just need some tweaking with the next patch. Lord knows I NEEDED increased odds at pulling Peggy, so I have multiple silver linings in this regardless.