Oscorp: Heroic Update (1/13/17)

JVReal

I understand the decision. A majority of the player base likely have under-developed rosters, and Heroics make hitting progression very difficult for those people.

I hated Heroics before I acquired a developed roster as well. But I have grown to love them once my roster started filling out. Suddenly I had to use characters that I covered and leveled due to OCD, and got to make practical use of them.

If the concern is to aid those with developing rosters to be able to play and hit progression in Heroics, might I suggest making better use of the Clearance Levels?

CL1-6 can have open roster, and CL7-10 have restricted rosters? Being able to choose your clearance level will allow you to decide whether you want to be restricted or not.

Quebbster

I loved Heroics right from the start, but maybe I am a Little weird like that. Trying to make a good team of what was available was part of the fun!
...but certain Heroic runs have definitely been less fun than others. Thank god they stopped doing Heroic release events and retooled Juggernaut and Venom to have subs...

Twysta

What gets me is that out of all the suggestions and complaints on here this is the change that they make.
Especially after just adding extra character reinforcements.
Are they not seeing enough participation or something?

There is a reason so many people retire and quit/stop playing MPQ. Having a limited roster in Heroics isn't really one of them.

Crowl

xcience wrote:

this is an unnecessary change. heroics are typically run in the off season. they offer a break from the monotony.

That simply isn't true, they tend to show up every few events, particularly after a new character release.

Quebbster

Crowl wrote:

xcience wrote:

this is an unnecessary change. heroics are typically run in the off season. they offer a break from the monotony.

That simply isn't true, they tend to show up every few events, particularly after a new character release.

That's because there aren't that many Three day events - there's the Heroic, the Simulator, and Hearts of Darkness I Believe. Webbed Wonder too, but it only runs in very special ciircumstances.
New releases are never Heroic events (thankfully) and they are never seven day events (at least not for the last year), so more often than not a new release is a four day event running over the weekend, leaving Three Days for Another event. Since Heroics are overrepresented among the Three day events, they usually get to fill that particular hole.

Arphaxad

GritsNGravy wrote:

I hate this, these were the events where I can actually use my 4*s again and try different things... Back to Jean and OML I guess... Again I REALLY don't like this. What's the point?

No one is stopping you from playing any of your 4* in the new system. The old system narrowed your options and restricted which covers you could use. Feel free to limit yourself if you want the challenge.

JVReal

Arphaxad wrote:

GritsNGravy wrote:

I hate this, these were the events where I can actually use my 4*s again and try different things... Back to Jean and OML I guess... Again I REALLY don't like this. What's the point?

No one is stopping you from playing any of your 4* in the new system. The old system narrowed your options and restricted which covers you could use. Feel free to limit yourself if you want the challenge.

I think you missed the point that the 5* players are making.

They now have 5* scaled nodes, and to play them with 4* heroes is suicide. So you are restricted to 5* characters, and since there are only a limited number of 5* characters, and of those, an even more limited number champed/leveled, the restriction is equal to or greater than the restrictions on the lower developed rosters with the heroics the way they were.

To tell the 5* player with 5* scaling that they can play it with 4* characters is like you having 4* scaling and being told to play it with your 2* roster.

The problem is, the way Heroics have always been played (developer restricted rosters) seemed to impact a big population of players negatively, the way they are now (open to entire roster, but for 5* scaling restricted) help a lot of the population (most of which are free players) but hurt the smaller population who are no doubt the financial supporters of the game. There has to be a way to help both sets.

Some have suggested restricting 5* from being used, and that should bring the scaling back down (easiest fix)
Some have suggested to fix 5* scaling (permanent fix, but a lot of work I imagine)
I suggested linking roster restriction to Clearance Levels, open roster for lower CL's, restricted roster for higher CL's.

Something should change, you don't want to negatively impact any of your player base if at all possible.

catcusvader

Honestly, just let people pick from two versions before the event starts, limited or unlimited. The limited will have slightly better rewards.

Bondidude

So I'll throw my 2 cents in, even though it will likely be buried among the rest of the posts.

The problem with some Heroics really boils down to boosted list/essentials. it seems like there is little to no thought put into who will be boosted along with the essentials. The last list of 3* essentials was pretty dreadful. Almost all of them used black, most of them were pretty middle of the road as far as rating and power level goes and overall it was just a plain mediocre list with little to no synergy among the choices. This was the first event in a while where I threw in the towel and said early that I was shooting for progression only, usually I do at least 6 clears on most nodes.

However, compare that to the 4* tier of characters where you had RHulk and CHulk both boosted so if you had those characters well covered you were doing clears in 45 minutes.

The problem is that when you are creating a limited format, if you want it to be enjoyable, you can't just jam a bunch of random stuff together and throw it out there. I used to play a lot of Magic The Gathering and I also used to do a lot of what is called cube. This is where you use existing Magic cards to create a custom limited format. There is a lot of intense thought and balancing that has to occur to make it where players are able to enjoy somewhat balanced decks but also have fun in the process. If I just took a bunch of random Magic cards, some of the best, some of the worst and some of the weakest and threw them in a box and called it a cube then it wouldn't be very much fun.

This is what the last Heroic felt like.

If you want to fix Heroics then put a little more thought into what the boosted lists are like the week you run them. We don't need IM40 every event or for it to always be stacked in favor of high power characters but making sure that there is at least SOME synergy there, something to build on even if it's not obvious is what makes them fun.

Stax the Foyer

Arphaxad wrote:

GritsNGravy wrote:

I hate this, these were the events where I can actually use my 4*s again and try different things... Back to Jean and OML I guess... Again I REALLY don't like this. What's the point?

No one is stopping you from playing any of your 4* in the new system. The old system narrowed your options and restricted which covers you could use. Feel free to limit yourself if you want the challenge.

Of course they are. It's how scaling works.

Just because you're allowed to start a match with a team, it doesn't mean that you'll be able to reliably beat it with that team. Nothing's stopping me from bringing my 1* DDQ team to PvE hard nodes either, but there's a reason I don't do it.

wymtime

So I am trying out the heroic with all my characters instead of the limited. This now just feels like every other PVE event. For me with a championed 5* and 2 level 435 5* the scaling has gone up significantly. I faced a level 411 juggs. What this means is it has limited my roster to my 5* and boosted 4* and my boosted 3* are only good for trivial nodes or the essential3* node where I am forced to use a 3*. I actually prefer the old heroic as the scaling was much lower and I could bring along a boosted 3* and not just IM40 for the AP gain. 3* in the old format could actually do helpful damage and not just get in the way.

I would actually like to see a heroic where just 5* are locked out instead of just a limited roster. I don't know how it would effect scaling, but I think it would be interesting.

Twysta

Arphaxad wrote:

GritsNGravy wrote:

I hate this, these were the events where I can actually use my 4*s again and try different things... Back to Jean and OML I guess... Again I REALLY don't like this. What's the point?

No one is stopping you from playing any of your 4* in the new system. The old system narrowed your options and restricted which covers you could use. Feel free to limit yourself if you want the challenge.

The Herald

I would just like to point out to everyone with a newer roster enjoying this change...

This time next year?

You will no longer have a new roster.

The year after that?

You'll have an even better developed roster.

And the year after that?

You'll spend more time screwed by Heroics being changed than you will by them staying the same. I've seen this with other games. You NEED long term prospects. Heroics really open up once your roster gets deep enough, and that was BEFORE they added more characters. Don't set your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, and 6th year of play on fire to have a slightly easier 1st year.

fnedude

I'm sure this is going to get lost in the noise of this post (since it's soooo long), but this PvE is going to be REALLY boring.

Combined with this, and being able to use "duplicates" (i.e. Daken vs computer Daken), there is no holds bar with this event.

So I'll probably be using X-23+LDaken+3*Strange on all of the puny goon nodes, then 4*Cyc+Peggy+X-23 verses everyone else (since they are all champed). Wiping the floor of everyone.

There is no incentive to use anything but the optimal boosted 4*, and your favorite "support" characters (peggy/strange/etc).

kidicarus

Just about to start my final clear of sub 1 - rampage is at lvl 414 and IW essential is at lvl 398.

I can handle the scaling but in a normal heroic, these would be in the low 300s and therefore a lot more relaxing to deal with.

I've been loving heroics for the longest time because I have spent time and effort champing just about every 4* to give myself an advantage during such events. Now with the non heroic scaling - I have to go through the same **** I have to go through in every other pve event.

Don't like - please revert back to limited rosters/scaling.

GurlBYE

I'm fine with the event personally.

It's very clear that pve is the one section of the game that doesn't immediately apparently benefit upper tier players.

They benefit in all other parts, even placement with ridiculous scaling. (top still has champed 4's and fully covered 5's )

It allows lower rosters to actually participate at all.

i remember being a 2-3 transition-er and literally having no choice but to sit the event out lol.

THATS the majority of the player base. unless they make 4s more common place, this change is an over all benefit.

stowaway

I think we've been making a mistake in believing the recent PvE changes have been for us. These changes are for them. The fewer restrictions there are on PvE, the less they have to worry about something like Ares showing up as an enemy in an Ares essential node (as he does in the current sub event). This is about being able to put these things on autopilot.

revskip

JVReal wrote:

CL1-6 can have open roster, and CL7-10 have restricted rosters? Being able to choose your clearance level will allow you to decide whether you want to be restricted or not.[/b]

That would also perhaps alleviate another issue of 5* players slumming in lower SCLs. Make it so that the top available SCL uses a restricted roster and all others use an open roster and see which is the really bigger issue for top tier players.

JeffCascadian

I'm now a 4-star player now although I still use some 3-stars, too. For me, this change is terrific. I play for progression, not placement, and enjoy having access to all of my roster. I've long disliked Heroics. This one is just another PVE and I have zero problem with that.

Quebbster

stowaway wrote:

I think we've been making a mistake in believing the recent PvE changes have been for us. These changes are for them. The fewer restrictions there are on PvE, the less they have to worry about something like Ares showing up as an enemy in an Ares essential node (as he does in the current sub event). This is about being able to put these things on autopilot.

I'd argue that is perhaps not a terrible thing - more villain essential nodes also means villain covers will be handed out more frequently as PvE rewards.