Oscorp: Heroic Update (1/13/17)

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Comments

  • Noobulator
    Noobulator Posts: 176 Tile Toppler
    I understand why you're doing this. But Heroics are only way I don't use my 5*s. I really enjoyed them now that I have nearly al 4* and 3* champed. Hope you go back to old format.
  • Daiches
    Daiches Posts: 1,252 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pants1000 wrote:
    Wow, we are a tough crowd. I've been seeing complaints about Heroics for a long time, so they change it so they're more like regular PVE events, and the complaints roll in?

    Personally I'm not sure if I like it or not. When I have good boosted characters they're fun, but the last one wasn't because the only 4* I had champed was Elektra.

    You must have missed the last few months where the only threads about Heroics have been love threads about how people used to hate Heroics, but now enjoy them due to finally having some normal scaling for a change.
  • DrNitroman
    DrNitroman Posts: 966 Critical Contributor
    Pants1000 wrote:
    Wow, we are a tough crowd. I've been seeing complaints about Heroics for a long time, so they change it so they're more like regular PVE events, and the complaints roll in?

    Personally I'm not sure if I like it or not. When I have good boosted characters they're fun, but the last one wasn't because the only 4* I had champed was Elektra.

    I totally agree with your comment. There is a long tradition of bashing Heroics on this forum. Every time an Heroic was put on the future event planning, there was someone to remind the devs that we all dislike Heroics.

    Ironically, since I'm on 5* land I learned to like Heroics more and therefore... I tend to agree with the complainers! icon_eek.gif I'm kinda sorry to see Heroics disappear.

    My point is, we should have told earlier and more clearly that <under some circumstances>, some players really like events with specific constraints. Now I read a lot of very good constructive suggestions already in this thread on how to implement such resctrictions in an event while avoiding messing with scaling.

    I think devs were convinced to please us with this change because they thought this was a recurring demand. It's a bit disheartening to see that so much announces of the devs are received by a flow of negative comments. Wer'e not an easy crowd, definitely not icon_rolleyes.gif

    Edit:
    Daiches wrote:
    You must have missed the last few months where the only threads about Heroics have been love threads about how people used to hate Heroics, but now enjoy them due to finally having some normal scaling for a change.

    I missed them too. Sincere apologies if you think I missed the point. Anyway, devs may have missed those posts like me! icon_lol.gif
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    Heroics really fall into different categories for different players. The players in 3* land get restricted to the buffed list and go through health packs if they want to compete. Early 4* players can be punished by having a buffed 4* they have to use for every fight.
    Then you have the 5* player where scaling gets dialed way back and A heroic PVE is enjoyable. Adding all characters will overall help a lot of players and hurt a lot of players. I am in the 5* tier so this will increase my scaling, but because I can use my whole roster buffed 4* and 5* it will feel like any other PVE.

    I will try it and let the devs know.
  • Frustrated1
    Frustrated1 Posts: 68 Match Maker
    Serious question: If all characters allowed, what makes it Heroic? I always assumed character restrictions is what set a normal PVE apart from Heroic PVE.
  • DeNappa
    DeNappa Posts: 1,390 Chairperson of the Boards
    I know heroics have seen a lot of hate, but I've mostly enjoyed them. That is, ever since I had a wide enough roster to choose characters from. And I'm not a 5* player, but a 3*/beginning 4* player. Because your roster options are limited, it will force you to rethink your strategies instead of just picking some of your 'preferred default teams'. Sometimes there are no 'efficient' winning teams to construct even. It certainly triggers you to explore a broader spectrum of your roster.

    I can see how it is more of a challenge if you don't have a large roster, or if you feel compelled to grind every node at least 6 times for placement or something. If it gets too hard, tedious, and/or annoying to win a node, you always have the option to nope the tinykitty out, you know.

    Anyway, lets just see how this one turns out.
  • spatenfloot
    spatenfloot Posts: 665 Critical Contributor
    Instead of this, you should try something different like a combined arms pve event. You could have 2 versions with different rewards: a 1/2/3 and a 2/3/4.
  • xdogg
    xdogg Posts: 334 Mover and Shaker
    I've seen a lot of complaints about Heroics on this forum and a lot of people even refusing to play them. I personally don't like them so I see this as a positive change. Its only a test run anyway so I don't think its really a big deal, try it out and then give your feedback.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    rbdragon wrote:
    I've always felt the best solution to the Heroic problem was to allow us to draft our own roster from who we have and build the scaling accordingly:

    Choose up to 4 characters from the 4*/5* tiers
    Choose up to 7 characters from the 3*/2* tiers
    All 1* characters available
    The 2*/3*/4* essentials are pre-selected, and do not factor into the number chosen

    This way, if a player chooses high level 5*s, then they have no one to blame but themselves for the scaling they receive.

    Also, the selected are not automatically boosted, the boosted list stays the same. This plays a part in the strategy, as well as the scaling (even though it shouldn't, but that's a whole other battle).

    I think your suggestion is overly complicated, the negative with heroics has tended to be those times when the boosted characters have poor synergy with each other, the simplest option to avoid that would be to allow people to choose a couple of wildcards, a 4* and a 3* to add to address any glaring weaknesses in the 'random' selection of boosted characters made available to us for that event.

    As far as lower level rosters, simply allow all 1* and 2* characters to be used as the people with scaling that would allow them to use those characters are the ones most likely to not have them all available and have a greater need of reduced restrictions.
  • Crowl
    Crowl Posts: 1,580 Chairperson of the Boards
    Pants1000 wrote:
    Wow, we are a tough crowd. I've been seeing complaints about Heroics for a long time, so they change it so they're more like regular PVE events, and the complaints roll in?

    Personally I'm not sure if I like it or not. When I have good boosted characters they're fun, but the last one wasn't because the only 4* I had champed was Elektra.

    In part it is different people complaining, but the regular complaints about heroics are more about wanting tweaks to the format rather than throwing away the format entirely to just leave a regular pve with a larger than usual amount of one-time entry nodes you have to do before starting the sub proper.
  • msp2211
    msp2211 Posts: 47 Just Dropped In
    I think this thread is more of a testament to the MMR 5* players are subjected to. This MMR has created an environment where those players look forward to the Heroics they once disliked.
  • TLCstormz
    TLCstormz Posts: 1,668
    The thing is......THE PREMISE of Heroics IS VERY FUN!!!

    The main reason that everyone had complained about them over the years, is the fact that they almost always put LITERALLY the worst combination of characters possible into them. And the enemies were usually the much hated Dark Avengers, along with the godawful Muscles. Scaled to Timbuktu.

    Yet and still, it WAS cool to use a wider breadth of uncommonly used characters. But now, that's going away?

    I will echo the smartest posts in here and say, HEROICS SHOULD BE A LOCKED ROSTER SELECTION THAT'S ACTUALLY COMPATIBLE, WITH 5*s LOCKED OUT, WITH NO 5* SCALING.

    I'm pretty sure THAT is the solution everyone has been asking for, all along. Not the COMPLETE erasing of the entire purpose of Heroics........that's just common sense.
  • carrion_pigeons
    carrion_pigeons Posts: 942 Critical Contributor
    I'm not a 5* player, but I'm still really unenthused about lowering the level of variety of experience in PvE. We seriously do not need more PvE events which play exactly like every other PvE event, especially not one that's full to the brim with Dark Avengers.

    Maybe you could make it "heroic" by restricting players to only using one character at a time (and adjusting scaling appropriately). That wouldn't be unfriendly to new characters and would still make the experience less mind-numbing.

    Maybe you could let players select a restricted roster to play with, and adjust scaling according to their selections.

    Maybe you could offer bonus Iso for winning a node with characters you've already used.

    There's any number of ways you could vary the experience. Why are you trying to flatten it out?
  • apmonte
    apmonte Posts: 72
    It would seem that the devs could make almost everyone happy by simply locking out the 5-stars during heroic events.
  • hodayathink
    hodayathink Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
    apmonte wrote:
    It would seem that the devs could make almost everyone happy by simply locking out the 5-stars during heroic events.

    The devs would make "everyone" happy by fixing high-level scaling. Keeping heroics the way they are is a patchwork solution meant to placate the 5 star players. And it's kind of weird seeing so many people be in favor of it.
  • mega ghost
    mega ghost Posts: 1,156 Chairperson of the Boards
    hodayathink wrote:
    apmonte wrote:
    It would seem that the devs could make almost everyone happy by simply locking out the 5-stars during heroic events.

    The devs would make "everyone" happy by fixing high-level scaling. Keeping heroics the way they are is a patchwork solution meant to placate the 5 star players. And it's kind of weird seeing so many people be in favor of it.

    I don't think it's as simple as that. As I said earlier in the thread:
    mega ghost wrote:
    I also just started liking Heroics now that almost all of my 3* characters are champed and ~12 of my 4* characters are champed. I'm nowhere near 5* territory, but even I default to teams of roughly the same 4-6 champed 4* characters. I like it when the game forces me to play with a boosted Mystique. As useful and wonderful as he is, I'd rather not just rely on the spry, brute force of Red Hulk again and again to one-hit kill waves of goons.
  • Shmoe50
    Shmoe50 Posts: 39 Just Dropped In
    I have always hated heroics because of the limitations and being basically incapable of playing because of my limited roster. Now that they are not terrible for me, I would be a hypocrite to say that I am not a fan. I like the move, because I remember how incredibly frustrating they were when half the characters that were allowed were not really playable for me.
  • Arphaxad
    Arphaxad Posts: 278 Mover and Shaker
    Thank you D3. I hope this goes permanent and across all heroics.
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    It seems to me like everyone outside the 5* crowd Are the ones least liking this change.

    So an obvious and time saving solution is to make it so that cl6 and below all have no roster restrictions while cl7 and above all follow classic heroic rules
  • TeamStewie
    TeamStewie Posts: 357 Mover and Shaker
    OneLastGambit wrote:
    It seems to me like everyone outside the 5* crowd Are the ones least liking this change.

    So an obvious and time saving solution is to make it so that cl6 and below all have no roster restrictions while cl7 and above all follow classic heroic rules


    The best suggestion was to make all 1 and 2 stars available and only a select few 3 and 4 stars. That way players just starting out should have a good selection to choose from and it would still make it a challenge for the people with better rosters.

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