Oscorp: Heroic Update (1/13/17)

drayviper32

I'm not in 5* world and never want to be ever! Even if there's a fire! So being able to use whoever I want in a Heroics event is awesome!!!

RemoDestroyer

Will the subs still have powered up reinforcements? Or now that every character will be available will the powered up characters be limited to the essentials and featured for the week?

TeamStewie

drayviper32 wrote:

I'm not in 5* world and never want to be ever! Even if there's a fire! So being able to use whoever I want in a Heroics event is awesome!!!

Seriously. If ever I draw one I think I'll just sell it and never look back. Seems to hurt more than help in pve.

revskip

wymtime wrote:

Then you have the 5* player where scaling gets dialed way back and A heroic PVE is enjoyable. Adding all characters will overall help a lot of players and hurt a lot of players.

I have to disagree here. This change will help a lot more rosters than it will hurt. The 5* crowd is a tiny percentage of the total user base. Even well rounded 4* rosters are in the top 10% of all users. Many users see a heroic and depending on the the characters that are available don't even bother with it. As far as I can tell the devs use play metrics heavily to make decisions on whether or not something is working. I'd imagine that their metrics for Heroics have been quite bad for a while relative to other events which is why they are getting tweaked.

The problem is that even though the 5* crowd is a tiny minority they are also comprise the majority of spending on the game so doing things that make their gameplay less enjoyable is not at all smart even if it would make hundreds of casual non-spending users have a better experience.

I'm on the fence myself. Since I'm early in the transition to 4*s this probably helps me since I won't be forced into using one character through the entire event but I've always enjoyed the puzzle aspects that Heroics offer. Sure matches take a little longer but some of the more interesting combos I've found have been due to a Heroic where I didn't have any of the staple characters available.

Wonko33

Really taking the puzzle out of puzzle quest. Not a fan.

WalrusBrigade

I hate to complain, but I'll agree that at least in appearance I'm not a fan of this change. I have a well developed 3* and transitioning 4* roster, so getting to use a new set of my ~100 characters was fun. Otherwise it is a whole lot of 4*Cyke/3*Storm/KK to get me through everything (unless Iceman is boosted . . . the I just need him and IM40). I suppose the boosted list might allow me to use new characters, but even then it is likely only to be the fully developed (champed) ones. Making me use 3*Thanos last time was a type of interesting I'm ok with. But let's see how this goes and what makes it "Heroic."

Hawkwood

Even as someone who isn't really in the 5* tier yet, I like the variety and I like the aspirational aspect of Heroics.

waywreth

Not a fan - I like the restrictions. It forces me to come up with some new team combinations rather than using the same half a dozen characters.

WEBGAS

I always hated heroics because of the restrictions to my roster, so I'm all for these changes.

I understand those 5* players that complain about the excessive scaling, and I feel for them.
Developpers need to focus on fixing the "scaling problem" and not only for Heroics events but for all the PVE system.
It's long overdue

CNash

I used to skip every Heroic as I never had the required characters. Then I champed all of the 3*s... and I still skipped every Heroic as I found being limited to a sub-optimal team of lesser used 3*s to be very tedious. Not to mention the limited roster depth meaning I ate through health packs fast.

So in short, this change is very welcome indeed!

Polares

Well, what a surprise, another change that completely ignores your more older and loyal players.

I get why Devs might be doing this change, what I don't understand is why now, and why before trying to address the scaling problem we all know exists.

Heroic format maybe needed some changes and some updates, it is a mode, that is usually enjoyed by players with wide rosters, so I am not against some updates. We recently had some changes, more characters included and more reinforcements, I think those changes were good for the format, but just removing all limitations defeats the format.

Just get ride of Heroics completely if you are going to remove all limitations.... What's the point now?????

Then, one of the worst problems this game has is it complete 'hatred' against its oldest players, I really don't understand it, and I think I have never seen something like this in any other game or company in the world. Yeah, I get it, any game needs new blood so it can continue but you don't need to ALWAYS do it with 'improvements' that go against some part of your player base. Sometimes I don't know why I keep playing this game when their Devs 'hate' me so much. After the money and time I have invested in this game, I think I deserve some respect and attention!

Bennydrill

Not a fan either, I like how heroics force you to use characters that would never see the light of day. I've developed a new love for Daredevil after the last heroic and looking for viable teams from what you have available is part of the challenge

Lemminkäinen

I'm not a 5* player (I have a 316 OML, all three-stars champed and a dozen four-stars champed) and I really dislike this change. Heroics used to be my favourite events (especially Juggernaut Heroic since you fight the Dark Avengers really little in that one and Juggs almost none in repeatable nodes - there's Doc Oc, Kingpin, and Magneto, which is refreshing!) because I had to try weird and sometimes awkward character combos. And this has been the case ever since I got my three-stars off the ground.

SangFroid

I will start by saying that I am not a fan of the new changes. I enjoyed the heroics for what they were which was a different form of gameplay and a challenge (both things that are sorely lacking from MPQ). I will also add that I have 3 5*'s championed so would consider myself a 5* player.

I really have no idea what feedback the devs need to hear from this "test" though? They have turned the heroic into a normal PVE; the people who previously enjoyed Heroics will be against it and the people who didn't like Heroics will be for it we already have these views expressed pretty much every week in one thread or another.

If this is a permanent change I will be very sad to see the loss of a game mode that was unique. Removing a game mode is exactly the wrong direction for this game as it desperately needs more game modes and more challenges not less.

cooperbigdaddy

I find Heroic restrictions fun when
-I have all/most of the required/essential characters (I have all 2/3*s, so it's basically 4*s I would be missing)
-The required characters, at least 3 of them, have GREAT synergy.

I do not find Heroic restrictions fun when
-The required characters don't have great synergy.
-Iron Fist is not a require character (to breeze through those easy first nodes)
-Secondary after Iron Fist, no Daken/Falcon/Blade (to breeze even more quickly through those easy first nodes)
-The required characters don't include Patch/IM40/OBW since that is my personal favorite overscaled all goon node team. This one is personal, but I love this team! Haha

So I can definitely see where the new team ideas would be fun, but sometimes it slows down the game for me.

Also, usually I only 3-5 usable characters in Heroics, so if one battle goes awry, then I have to either use health packs or wait a few hours to be able to play another battle, while without restrictions, I can go to a B team, or even a few different teams to save health packs/time.

Just my all 3*s, barely any usable 4* rostered opinion.

sinburn

At least this time you let us know that we were going to be Beta testers before making us your Beta testers. Bravo!
Ps: It would be a lot easier to tell you what we thought of using our favorite teams if our Ability Costs were actually correct...

Stax the Foyer

Polares wrote:

Then, one of the worst problems this game has is it complete 'hatred' against its oldest players, I really don't understand it, and I think I have never seen something like this in any other game or company in the world. Yeah, I get it, any game needs new blood so it can continue but you don't need to ALWAYS do it with 'improvements' that go against some part of your player base. Sometimes I don't know why I keep playing this game when their Devs 'hate' me so much. After the money and time I have invested in this game, I think I deserve some respect and attention!

Hatred is a strong word. I think it's a combination of an overarching design goal (provide an even experience for everyone) and the deployment of development resources. Indifference for systemic reasons, ratherthan actual antipathy.

A first chunk of developer time and other resources goes into developing new characters. That's really for the veterans in the moment, (although it's for everyone in the long term). A second chunk of developer effort goes into updating and providing new events.

Whether due to the effort required, or the effort allocated, there's a lot less released on the new event front than on the new character front. Given the relative rarity of those new events compared to new character releases, they're generally suited for everyone (consistent with both development of resources and their design goal).

The net result is that veteran players get a lot of new toys, but keep playing in the exact same sandbox. The even experience of PvE means that most of these new toys don't have much of an impact on gameplay. Lots of those new toys never really get used, since you're forced to use the best ones if you want to be competitive.

The old heroics served as one of the major aspects of PvE where your roster development had an actual impact on gameplay. (The other notable exception is the 4* DDQ matches.) Losing that is disappointing. I'm not looking at this from a competitive point of view, as I don't play PvE competitively anymore. I'm generally T100 or lower, unless the alliance really needs everyone to contribute. It just makes the game less fun.

Cycling back to the original point, even if this change becomes permanent, I think a little bit more should be done for veterans on the event side of things, to combat the feeling expressed above. It doesn't even have to be that much. But imagine if all of the PvE events were retrofitted to include a few challenge nodes (maybe worth 0 progression points, maybe using essential characters to further reward roster diversity), with fixed scaling and corresponding rewards, similar to Clash of the Titans nodes. Win a big chunk of ISO, some CP, something meaningful like that. Throw us a little bone on the PvE side of things, and it'll go a long way.

babinro

Having now completed my first major sub clear up to max scaling I can confidently say that I dislike the changes.

This should come as no surprise from someone in 5* tier play. Scaling requires that I bring in 2x 5*'s with a semi-flexible 3rd which makes this PvE feel exactly the same as PvP, LR and typical PvE's.

Limited heroics for the later game crowd is often viewed as a breath of fresh air. A rare chance to enjoy roster diversity on nodes that are challenging but still passable.

Suggested Change
I recognize that people who enjoy Heroics, like myself, are in the minority. I think you might be able to hit a better middle ground in heroics by making the following changes.

1) Increase the number of buffed characters for the event. Add one or two more 4*'s and 3*'s to the list to help out those with limited rosters. Given that 3* and 4* tiers are now expanding beyond 40 characters this is probably a change that should happen regardless.

2) Tone down the scaling. A lot of people skip heroics because they view it as a health pack drain. This is largely accurate when compared to traditional PvE's as well. While I think Enemy Health scaling needs to be toned back in all events regardless, this is more of an immediate concern in Heroics.

The above changes won't be as well received as just making Heroics like every other pve in history but I think its important to keep the limited roster event concept alive. Its among the few unique gameplay experiences the game offers.

broll

When I first started I hated heroics. As a new player with just 1* and 2*s they are literally unplayable as you can easily be forced into 2 v 3 or 1 v 3 due to the majority of characters being restricted. I put it on the biggest issues lists on at least 2 survey's in the year I've played. This is a huge problem for early rosters because they can't play PvP either, so they are basically forced to sit out on the 99% of the game for the length of the event.

The 5* crowd is unhappy with the change because they have to face tougher scaling then they previously did, but is it any different than a normal event?

The Old Way:
Pro - Easier for the top tier rosters by excluding their 5*s
Con - Difficult to completely unplayable for the lowest tier rosters due the the extremely restricted characters.

The New Way:
Pro - Any roster that's cleared the prologue should be able to play.
Con - The top tier rosters have problems with scaling similar to they have for any PvE event.

So in the old way the people who needed it the most were completely locked out. In the new way the people who don't need it as bad, have a tougher time. I have to vote that the new way is better on the whole. However, maybe there is a better way to make everyone happy?

Changes that could fix the issue for everyone:
1. Fix the 5* scaling issue. This is needed across the board and way overdue if the forums are to be believed (just saying that cause I have no first hand knowledge, not casting doubt).
2. Why not make heroic events continue to have character restrictions, but less and targeted ones. For example maybe heroics only lock out all 5*, or all 5* and 4*. Nothing 3* or below should be locked out IMO.

Orion

The problem with excluding 5*s is that every will just run Peggy/IM40/Iceman or something similar. I liked the fact that Heroics made you use teams you've never used before. I was running Miles/TAHulk/RHulk in the last PvE. Cho and RHulk work well together which I never would have known outside of a Heroic event.