** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Vairelome wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Vairelome wrote:

One of the things I like about the current version of OBW is that aside from 5 blue being mandatory

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

Yes to the second question. One of the more significant aspects of OBW is that she's the only healer below 3*, which means you can bypass health packs to a limited extent by healing in prologue missions. Most of the prologue missions have CD-tossing minions, and it can be difficult to ensure a clean board in order to heal at all. If you're using a 5/3/5 build, I'd expect that you're using a different healing strategy.

I use the same strategy just different missions. There are plenty without goons especially on Venom. And healing is boring enough in its own right, doing it at half pace? What a waste.

But this was mentioned in the compare, and I accept as a personal style motivation. Is that all? 5 blue "mandatory" because of prologue healing?

Half pace is better than no healing, and I've been in that situation way too often. OBW covers are hard to come by; mine is only 3/4/3, and there is no single cover in the game I'd rather have than that 5th blue.

Unknown

If there's a reason OBW is vital, it's not PVP, but as a way to heal partially hurt characters before you get enough spidermans. She seems mandatory in the Juggernaut Heroic tournament, even though you can't actually use her! But going in, healing everyone up, then going in again is the one way for 2* rosters to grind fast enough.

Kolence

pasa_ wrote:

Vairelome wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Vairelome wrote:

One of the things I like about the current version of OBW is that aside from 5 blue being mandatory

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

Yes to the second question. One of the more significant aspects of OBW is that she's the only healer below 3*, which means you can bypass health packs to a limited extent by healing in prologue missions. Most of the prologue missions have CD-tossing minions, and it can be difficult to ensure a clean board in order to heal at all. If you're using a 5/3/5 build, I'd expect that you're using a different healing strategy.

I use the same strategy just different missions. There are plenty without goons especially on Venom. And healing is boring enough in its own right, doing it at half pace? What a waste.

But this was mentioned in the compare, and I accept as a personal style motivation. Is that all? 5 blue "mandatory" because of prologue healing?

To play the devil's advocate - what about using OBW with your 3*s (for players in 2* -> 3* transition) against Punisher or IM40? Especially Punisher, as the countdown tile sometimes survives for quite some time.

Unknown

OBW's best PVP ability is her double tap and minor drain, not her aggro recon.

Unknown

Kolence wrote:

To play the devil's advocate - what about using OBW with your 3*s (for players in 2* -> 3* transition) against Punisher or IM40? Especially Punisher, as the countdown tile sometimes survives for quite some time.

She's fine to use with 3*, she's a great partner to Patch and Punisher. But as with all the other 2*, she is squishy and there are better combos of 3* out there.

That's the point. She is the pinnacle of the 2* roster, but you will not find most of the people with maxed 141s rocking a level 85 OBW as part of their 3 person crew.

Unknown

octagon69 wrote:

D3,

IF you aren't using OBW and the AI is using OBW you will lose.

She is too strong. Her heals and stealing means she is too vital.

This is seriously ridiculous. I intentionally look for PvP teams with OBW because she's so incredibly easy to crush before she can do any harm to my team. A high level Hood is WAY scarier.

IceIX

Marquoz wrote:

This is seriously ridiculous. I intentionally look for PvP teams with OBW because she's so incredibly easy to crush before she can do any harm to my team. A high level Hood is WAY scarier.

I said that months ago while most players were talking about how useless he was. He's pretty amazing.

Unknown

On a side note...that moment when you go to steal from your enemy without checking what they have first...and all they have are more purple tiles. The worst feeling.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Marquoz wrote:

This is seriously ridiculous. I intentionally look for PvP teams with OBW because she's so incredibly easy to crush before she can do any harm to my team. A high level Hood is WAY scarier.

I said that months ago while most players were talking about how useless he was. He's pretty amazing.

He is, and I can't seem to get enough covers to field him. I really, really, REALLY hate facing him though. Shudder.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Marquoz wrote:

This is seriously ridiculous. I intentionally look for PvP teams with OBW because she's so incredibly easy to crush before she can do any harm to my team. A high level Hood is WAY scarier.

I said that months ago while most players were talking about how useless he was. He's pretty amazing.

At the time most people probably didn't have his 5 blue covers. Also he is SUPER squishy, but that is of course balanced by one of the most underrated and dangerous abilities in the game.

Unknown

Wish I could get covers for the guy, seems impossible to deny him something basically.

Unknown

Vairelome wrote:

Half pace is better than no healing, and I've been in that situation way too often. OBW covers are hard to come by; mine is only 3/4/3, and there is no single cover in the game I'd rather have than that 5th blue.

Maybe you're in the situation way too often because you sacrificed the offensive aspects. If the opponent dies to more damage or stolen AP you'll have way less to heal up. Among other benefits. Err, I mean you're not there yet to use her full potential that sits in the espionage (quite uncontested) and more steal (as it influence the cost this one is subject to debate, some people want it low-cost and happy to not steal the purple for themselves and leave it to the other OBW or Mags or goons or whatever.)

I have that cover in the trash queue. A few weeks ago had 2 blue and 2 black ones, but no purples unfortunately, I wanted to experiment a little, but didn't start without a way back. Had to sell them before the next purple dropped.

I seriously suggest to read the said thread a few people adjusted their opinions. and the full series of Venom missions are good for healing at different level ranges.

Unknown

Most of the people here are older players with a good roster of 3* 141s, but when you actually go against OBW with a not fully leveled 2* team it can turn to disaster depending on the map, unless you have your own. I've had matches in the past with OBW/MStorm where I didn't get a turn and died in tears
Now things are different because
1/I have a fully leveled OBW
2/ I know how to kill her efficiently, and I can do it with my roster even without OBW.
But for a middle tier player she's probably among the best 2* you can have maxed.

Then again calling for a nerf is stupid, just give all those 2 abilities characters a third and healing to some of them, you'll see diversity...we will all be better off if they boost underused characters rather than nerfing overused ones...

Unknown

jozier wrote:

Kolence wrote:

To play the devil's advocate - what about using OBW with your 3*s (for players in 2* -> 3* transition) against Punisher or IM40? Especially Punisher, as the countdown tile sometimes survives for quite some time.

She's fine to use with 3*, she's a great partner to Patch and Punisher. But as with all the other 2*, she is squishy and there are better combos of 3* out there.

That's the point. She is the pinnacle of the 2* roster, but you will not find most of the people with maxed 141s rocking a level 85 OBW as part of their 3 person crew.

I use her a lot in the offense team -- then once done most of the push switch out for someone better for defense or spooks. And in short yes, I screwed up quite a few times shooting for heal when CD was around, but that is the saif user error and hardly ever was really needed right then (in fact most times I remember I was killing the said punisher/IM with the next ability. And as general observation if the 600 makes the difference the game is messed up seriously and really goes in the general luck/cascade territory. Shall use a full heal in time.

Unknown

I don't think Hood is that great, only marginally better than obw. Yeah I'd rather fight 85 obw over 141 Hood, but thats because of the higher health due to the level gap. Obw compares to 3-stars, that's how good she is. Obw is on the top end of 2-stars, Hood was on the low end of 3-stars, but is on the rise because of DD, Rags, gsbw, and other changes. Imo Hood is great in pve.

Unknown

Lol, if someone got a problems to downed OBW, it means just someone have bad game skills.

She squishy even for one star team.

And what mean «Forced»? If you don't want it to play — just don't choose it. The game have is plenty of choice and all the characters can win the battle.

Unknown

OTERSEY wrote:

She squishy even for one star team.

Yeah, no. Her health is comparable to Juggs. Only Juggs hurts himself and obw heals herself.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

I don't think Hood is that great, only marginally better than obw. Yeah I'd rather fight 85 obw over 141 Hood, but thats because of the higher health due to the level gap.

If Hood and OBW had identical health (and frankly, they almost do), I'd still fear Hood way more. Why? Because he's stealing pretty much every turn and does it from any color. You can't deny him by matching purple yourself (like you can with OBW) and you can't just kill him before he fires his steal (because he fires it constantly). He's a guaranteed AP leech who slows any fight against his team way down.

reckless442

Phantron wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

reckless442 wrote:

I guess she should be nerfed.

I guess she should be killed first. Any storm is auto first target for me since whatever (more precisely since I got screwed over bigtime .

While I certainly agree that mStorm is generally way more dangerous. Fortunately has that small HP to compensate so if not dealt with the problem sits on the other side of the keyboard.

Classic Storm is only strong due to user error. You shouldn't throw a Molotov while Storm is alive, let alone a Berserker Rage. These are events you have 100% control over. I have done both before and it's 100% my fault for being stupid.

You should kill her first because she has the lowest HP, and killing one person quick is always a good deal. This is especially true if you're running Spiderman.

You basically just proved the point everyone else has been making. Classic Storm has only 500 health lower than OBW. Why is OBW so much more powerful than Classic Storm, who also can stun and cause 1,670 damage with her blue or can generate AP with her green? You have to be mindful of OBW and deny her matches. If you're stupid and don't pay attention when it mentions espionage, you'll lose track of OBW's purple and get a surprise when she steals. At least, OBW can't hurt you for thousands of points of damage.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

Yeah, no. Her health is comparable to Juggs. Only Juggs hurts himself and obw heals herself.

I don't think so. Basis of game mechanics It's not the amount of health — the main thing is the right choice of skills for each battle and monitoring the situation on the board. I beat **star teams include OBW even with not full leveled startup chars.