** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

reckless442 wrote:

I guess she should be nerfed.

I guess she should be killed first. Any storm is auto first target for me since whatever (more precisely since I got screwed over bigtime .

While I certainly agree that mStorm is generally way more dangerous. Fortunately has that small HP to compensate so if not dealt with the problem sits on the other side of the keyboard.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

reckless442 wrote:

I guess she should be nerfed.

I guess she should be killed first. Any storm is auto first target for me since whatever (more precisely since I got screwed over bigtime .

While I certainly agree that mStorm is generally way more dangerous. Fortunately has that small HP to compensate so if not dealt with the problem sits on the other side of the keyboard.

Classic Storm is only strong due to user error. You shouldn't throw a Molotov while Storm is alive, let alone a Berserker Rage. These are events you have 100% control over. I have done both before and it's 100% my fault for being stupid.

You should kill her first because she has the lowest HP, and killing one person quick is always a good deal. This is especially true if you're running Spiderman.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Classic Storm is only strong due to user error. You shouldn't throw a Molotov while Storm is alive, let alone a Berserker Rage. These are events you have 100% control over. I have done both before and it's 100% my fault for being stupid.

You should kill her first because she has the lowest HP, and killing one person quick is always a good deal. This is especially true if you're running Spiderman.

Yeah, those are never fun. You're right that it's always an event you have control over, but I've made those little mistakes enough to make me tread lightly

Unknown

It's what we affectionately refer to as a PICNIC error.

Problem in chair, not in computer

IceIX

Telepath wrote:

It's what we affectionately refer to as a PICNIC error.

Problem in chair, not in computer

Better acronym than the one I always hear, PEBKAC. Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Computer.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Classic Storm is only strong due to user error. You shouldn't throw a Molotov while Storm is alive, let alone a Berserker Rage. These are events you have 100% control over. I have done both before and it's 100% my fault for being stupid.

You should kill her first because she has the lowest HP, and killing one person quick is always a good deal. This is especially true if you're running Spiderman.

Yep, that is what everyone says. And maybe there's no official definition for 'powerful' but in my book whatever needs priority kill matches. just because I'm in control of who I kill first she will not be less a danger.

The other part is questionable, killing off individuals is often a waste. I rather watch them all die or almost-die to area effects. But she quite prevents me using those before she hit the dust. Say I conveniently have 2 molotovs to shoot that would be GG. but can't do that, the first would backfire seriously. Or if you engage to kill someone else first you also risk problems.

So she pretty much twist my hand on how to play, that is helluva power.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

Telepath wrote:

It's what we affectionately refer to as a PICNIC error.

Problem in chair, not in computer

Better acronym than the one I always hear, PEBKAC. Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Computer.

That's between the keyboard and the CHAIR.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

reckless442 wrote:

I guess she should be nerfed.

I guess she should be killed first. Any storm is auto first target for me since whatever (more precisely since I got screwed over bigtime .

While I certainly agree that mStorm is generally way more dangerous. Fortunately has that small HP to compensate so if not dealt with the problem sits on the other side of the keyboard.

Classic Storm is only strong due to user error. You shouldn't throw a Molotov while Storm is alive, let alone a Berserker Rage. These are events you have 100% control over. I have done both before and it's 100% my fault for being stupid.

You should kill her first because she has the lowest HP, and killing one person quick is always a good deal. This is especially true if you're running Spiderman.

Hate to break it to you but the same strategies you would use for classic storm or if you are using Patch at all or for any Spidey battle are the same for OBW. Stun her if she gets too much AP. Play the denial game. And so on.

Just be glad one of her three colours is black which other than Punisher you probably won't see her paired with anyone that uses it.

Eddiemon

pasa_ wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Telepath wrote:

It's what we affectionately refer to as a PICNIC error.

Problem in chair, not in computer

Better acronym than the one I always hear, PEBKAC. Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Computer.

That's between the keyboard and the CHAIR.

Just to muddy the waters I always knew it as PEBCAK, problem exists between chair and keyboard.

I also like User Error: Abort, Retry, Ignore.

Kolence

Phaserhawk wrote:

Agreed. Just because a character is really good at what they do doesn't make them OP, sometimes, in fact a lot of times, its' that the rest of the characters are UP. Just look at the current 2*'s there are only 5 that are playable in PvP

OBW, Ares, Thor, C. Storm, and Wolverine and of those C. Storm and Wolverine are severely ****. You can maybe argue Magneto MN, but for the most part you are only going to see OBW, Ares, and Thor for 2*'s

Why not count Daken in that list as well? If paired with OBW, I'd rather use Ares + Daken, then Thor + Wolverine. Other than that I agree with everything you said.

Unknown

One of the things I like about the current version of OBW is that aside from 5 blue being mandatory, you'll get some debate as to how to split purple and black. Most of the other characters have a default spec that is pretty clearly the best.

I really would like to see a second 2* healer, though. OBW has a ton of near-unique utility tied up in one character, and it honestly makes a big difference whether you have a developed OBW in your 2* roster--more than any other 2*, full stop. I don't want her nerfed; I want her to have competition.

Clintman

Point 1: It is all about accessibility, The problem is not OBW, the problem is that there are not very many options in 2* land, and 3* take forever to build. If you ran up against the Hood all the time you would hate your life, but you don't have to worry about that, because not many people have the Hood at a playable level.

Point 2: When I come up against OBW and M Storm I take out Modern Storm first every time, and twice on Sundays.

Point 3: I ran up against a Hood, OBW, Fat Thor the other night that ate my maxed out level 141s team for lunch... I forgot to come make a thread to **** about the rare occasion that I lose a match through. (note to self, post OBW/Hood hate thread)

Point 4: Funny thing is I never used OBW, I have only started leveling her recently because she is fun to play, powerful sure, but my other 3* toons are much better choices.

Eddiemon

jozier wrote:

Hate to break it to you but the same strategies you would use for classic storm or if you are using Patch at all or for any Spidey battle are the same for OBW. Stun her if she gets too much AP. Play the denial game. And so on.

Just be glad one of her three colours is black which other than Punisher you probably won't see her paired with anyone that uses it.

Hood would like a word with you. Hood/OBW/Boosted character of the week is always fun.

Verno5x

IceIX wrote:

Telepath wrote:

It's what we affectionately refer to as a PICNIC error.

Problem in chair, not in computer

Better acronym than the one I always hear, PEBKAC. Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Computer.

I've always been a fan of the oldschool I-D-10-T error

mags1587

Verno5x wrote:

IceIX wrote:

Telepath wrote:

It's what we affectionately refer to as a PICNIC error.

Problem in chair, not in computer

Better acronym than the one I always hear, PEBKAC. Problem Exists Between Keyboard and Computer.

I've always been a fan of the oldschool I-D-10-T error

That's my favorite, too.

Unknown

Vairelome wrote:

One of the things I like about the current version of OBW is that aside from 5 blue being mandatory

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

I love that thread. Just goes to show how different play styles and pairings can go from "this is absolutely the worst build ever" to "I can't play with any other combination!"

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Vairelome wrote:

One of the things I like about the current version of OBW is that aside from 5 blue being mandatory

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

Yes to the second question. One of the more significant aspects of OBW is that she's the only healer below 3*, which means you can bypass health packs to a limited extent by healing in prologue missions. Most of the prologue missions have CD-tossing minions, and it can be difficult to ensure a clean board in order to heal at all. If you're using a 5/3/5 build, I'd expect that you're using a different healing strategy.

IceIX

Telepath wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

I love that thread. Just goes to show how different play styles and pairings can go from "this is absolutely the worst build ever" to "I can't play with any other combination!"

According to the tone of that thread, I run Black Widow (Original) with the worst build possible (4/4/5). I can live without the Purple steal and I just play more tactically when Countdown tiles are around and need to heal. Meanwhile all my base pre-Strike tile hits pack more punch. Ahh well, I'm happy in my ignorance.

Unknown

Vairelome wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Vairelome wrote:

One of the things I like about the current version of OBW is that aside from 5 blue being mandatory

Seriously I will cry if I see that statement again. Please read the related discussion here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=4392 . Which part makes it mandatory, the 89 extra points? Or that you usually appear in battles where CDs are present and 600 up will create the difference?

Yes to the second question. One of the more significant aspects of OBW is that she's the only healer below 3*, which means you can bypass health packs to a limited extent by healing in prologue missions. Most of the prologue missions have CD-tossing minions, and it can be difficult to ensure a clean board in order to heal at all. If you're using a 5/3/5 build, I'd expect that you're using a different healing strategy.

I use the same strategy just different missions. There are plenty without goons especially on Venom. And healing is boring enough in its own right, doing it at half pace? What a waste.

But this was mentioned in the compare, and I accept as a personal style motivation. Is that all? 5 blue "mandatory" because of prologue healing?