** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

I don't know why people are always obsessed with her healing ability. The offense/defense she brings with Aggressive Recon is far more important than her heal, and that's also why she's hard to stop. Blue is probably the best color in the game right now, so nobody's going to concede blue to OBW so it's easy to 'deny' her blue. The only characters who can make use of purple that are competitive is Magneto classic and OBW. It's pointless to talk about countering a character with the same one, so you're left with only Magneto as a response to OBW. Otherwise, each time you match purple you're just skipping your turn.

octagon69

D3,

Please nerf OBW so I don't have to use her all the time.

I MUST use her in PVE and PVP.

IF you aren't using OBW and the AI is using OBW you will lose.

She is too strong. Her heals and stealing means she is too vital.

For tanking you can use HULK or Thor. For DPS you can use Punisher, patch, etc, etc.

So you have to use OBW until your spider man is strong enough it looks like. Both these need to be changed. I would like recon to be removed from the game. The heals are fine.

Bacon Pants

octagon69 wrote:

D3,

Please nerf OBW so I don't have to use her all the time.

I MUST use her in PVE and PVP.

IF you aren't using OBW and the AI is using OBW you will lose.

She is too strong. Her heals and stealing means she is too vital.

For tanking you can use HULK or Thor. For DPS you can use Punisher, patch, etc, etc.

So you have to use OBW until your spider man is strong enough it looks like. Both these need to be changed. I would like recon to be removed from the game. The heals are fine.

This is one hilarious complaint. The AI can use OBW all they want, she is easy to take out if you block her tiles.

Unknown

Easier to just take her out before she casts much. We just need more healing options.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

She ruins PvP for bad players who don't understand the concepts of color denial and targeted damage.

Great summary. OTOH I'm all in for having more support-type or mixed characters and improving actual diversity by addition.

It's absolutely not her fault we have a boatload of mostly useless ** characters and even a list of their buffs that is not being processed in last several months. Probably if Captn and Hawkie got their buffs as promised we'd see more of them in her place.

Agreed, could you imagine if Hawkeye could place tiles or Cap, could do damage. Magneto MN is almost playable, he just needs something I don't know what, I think his blue could use a little rework, also if the gave C. Storm a tad more damage on her yellow, not what it was, but where it actually made you think a little you would see her numbers go down, also another healer

I think MN Magneto is fine, but he just doesn't play well with the current metagame, primarily because his blue and red blow up so much of the board and are random. This makes him terrible to team up with Spidey (who needs web tiles), Patch, or Punisher (strike tiles). He also doesn't play well with OBW because OBW's purple is more useful.

That said, I also don't think he's powerful enough to serve as a counter for Spidey or Patch without his countdowns being targetable.

But someday, when the metagame changes, MN Mags may see his day in the sun.

Unknown

I think it's the fact that there are only 2 healers in this game and imo it's pretty close to parity with Spideys (3000+ health heals tend to be overkill outside of lvl230 pve).

And to people saying she has no offense, stealing AP is both defensive and offensive.

I don't think she really needs a nerf outside of her heal, which really wouln't hurt her game that much if at all. I agree that her heal is secondary to AR/Espionage. I might also be tempted to adjust AR levelling so it's more linear (currently 3 is good, 4 is bad, 5 is good again).

However, if Spidey gets nerfed, it would be kinda stupid to not also nerf OBW because then people would prolly "upgrade" from 3-star Spidey to 2-star OBW.

Unknown

OBW needs a nerf as long as the only characters with viable active purple is herself and Magneto. This doesn't mean AR isn't overpowered, but right now it doesn't have a counter because you're forced to match a useless color to stop OBW's most powerful ability. If she's paired with say, The Punisher, they can use every color except yellow just between those two, so skipping your turn to deny AR is rather dangerous.

Just like Thor 3* totally changes yellow from being a dead color, there has to be someone else that's usable that can use purple too. Patch had the same problem with 3y, as in to deny that regen you've to match yellow, which is generally the same as skipping your turn due to a lack of usable yellow powers, so you're pretty screwed either way.

Honestly the simplest fix is change Psi-katana to purple. That way a quick 2 purple match leaves insufficient purples on the board for AR, and nothing to steal, which should be a reliable counter. It doesn't address the actual problem (AR is overpowered) but at least it'll give people an option beyond playing mirror match or rely on perhaps the most broken character in game, Magneto.

Unknown

nihilium wrote:

I really dont get what ppl want to nerf about a character with NO REAL OFFENSIVE SKILL.
To not make her OK they already gave her no attks, so now u want to take away her some HP too? o.o

Imho its not her thats the problem but the lack of alternatives.
Give us 2-3 more 2star support characters and ppl will replace her. I mean u just dont need 3 chars with red&green skills, so any change is actually awesome. But in lack of alternatives everyone runs their team with her.

WTH is everyone thinking 2* characters have to be completely useless anyway? o.o

I agree that maybe more 2* characters would make he replaceable, but not having an attack does not make a character average. Look at Spiderman, he doesnt have a single damaging attack and hes still unbelievably good.

Give her as much HP as Classic Storm and increase the cost of Agressive Recon and Anti-Gravity Device by 1 and I think shed be completely fair. That way you arent getting either of them for 8 Ap, which can be done easily via espionage. Then shes still a totally viable, good character, but doesnt have the ridiculous speed she does now

sinnerjfl

Her very low HP (a bit over 3000) and the fact that she caps at level 85 is more than enough to balance her out.
She is really easy to kill before she can do anything, just kill her first while denying purple.

Unknown

D3,

Please nerf the entire game so I don't have to play and I can push butan all day.

I MUST play this game and actually think and have variation.

IF you aren't playing the game and strategizing and varying your roster, you will lose.

The actual game is too strong for this game. It makes it a real game.

For gaming you can use CANDY CRUSH or FLAPPY BIRD. For time wasters you can use Angry Birds, clash of clans, etc, etc.

So you have to play the game until you play other games it looks like. Both these need to be changed. I would like the game removed from the game. The other part of the game is fine.

Unknown

it appears someone died to a OBW

HailMary

You know what's worse than Recon?

Damage abilities.

Also, passive abilities.

Strike tiles are the worst. They seriously need to go.

Unknown

HailMary wrote:

You know what's worse than Recon?

Damage abilities.

Also, passive abilities.

Strike tiles are the worst. They seriously need to go.

Yep, we definitely need more defensive abilities, like healing... and ap steal...

oh wait

fedlex20

Too Easy wrote:

it appears someone died to a OBW

I laughed at this

MNKromann

please give me OBW covers, I have not gotten anything useful in far too long.

Unknown

What's the strategy to deal with 2* Thor? Or 2* anyone that isn't OBW? There probably isn't one because I know most of the guys posting dealing with OBW is easy are all in the 141X3 range and wouldn't even need to think about any other 2* character. The fact that people always have their 'so easy anyone can do it' theory on dealing with OBW is a sign that you acknowledge her power. No other 2* even needs a strategy to be dealt with when you're on the high end of 3*.

Of course if you're running level 141 characters you shouldn't lose to OBW very often, if at all. She's powerful but she's not that broken to be able to make up for a difference of 56 levels. Even if you're not level 141, it's not like a high end 3* roster doesn't have its own share of cheap tricks, so most of the time it doesn't matter. Still, do you go to a game against The Punisher thinking about how to deny his colors or how to kill him quickly? I certainly do not and that's a character that's definitely top 5 by usage in 3* for sure.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

What's the strategy to deal with 2* Thor? Or 2* anyone that isn't OBW? There probably isn't one because I know most of the guys posting dealing with OBW is easy are all in the 141X3 range and wouldn't even need to think about any other 2* character. The fact that people always have their 'so easy anyone can do it' theory on dealing with OBW is a sign that you acknowledge her power. No other 2* even needs a strategy to be dealt with when you're on the high end of 3*.

Of course if you're running level 141 characters you shouldn't lose to OBW very often, if at all. She's powerful but she's not that broken to be able to make up for a difference of 56 levels. Even if you're not level 141, it's not like a high end 3* roster doesn't have its own share of cheap tricks, so most of the time it doesn't matter. Still, do you go to a game against The Punisher thinking about how to deny his colors or how to kill him quickly? I certainly do not and that's a character that's definitely top 5 by usage in 3* for sure.

? Of course I do. It all depends on roster construction. If I run with Patch, I am incredibly concerned about an enemy Punisher collecting black. Molotov is the anti strike tile.

Ares: He's strong enough that you need to be wary at times with his skills if he collects enough yellow or red. A very annoying opponent, especially if you knock his health down.
OBW: already addressed
Storm: Everybody gameplans around Storm and you totally ignored that to make your point. Show me a person that either doesn't take Storm out first or stun her?
Thor: Used to be a gameplanner because of his Red attack, now you just need to watch out for 14 green - nobody gameplans really because if he beats you to 14 green, chances are you got cascaded to **** anyway
Wolverine: Used to be a gameplanner but his nerfed feral claws and healing ability have changed that. Still an annoying fight if yellow is on the board
Daken: Yeah, you don't think about his passive when you collect green? I disagree
Bullseye: Ibid for purple
Moonstone: If she gets up to enough red you better believe I'm planning. If she gets enough purple, I'm definitely hoping to throw a special tile out there.

Just because you choose to ignore these characters doesn't mean everyone does. I take all of these into account when I play my matches.

Unknown

The game ends on the turn I use Berserker Rage 95% of the time so no I don't pay attention to whatever the other side is collecting as long as I have 9g. I have to pay attention to OBW because she's one of the few characters that can prevent me from collecting 9g if I'm not careful.

A level 141 Patch does not need to pay attention to any 2* besides OBW (because you can actually fail to get Berserker Rage with OBW around). Storm gets killed first because of her lack of HPs, not because she's particularly dangerous. You pretty much always defend blue by default (because that's the best color of Magneto and Spiderman) which renders Storm harmless.

I've seen Jozier's team so I know you have Patch and Spiderman, and I don't know why you'd even be concerned about any 2* besides OBW given you've the ability to instantly put a game away with 9g + some number of blues.

Eddiemon

So our new running philosophy is 'please nerf the strongest 2 star because they are the strongest and so I have to use them because they are strong'?

That's recursively destructive and never actually ends. Was thorverine, now OBW, next will be Ares, then Thor again, then Daken. Then moonstone.

Will you feel a sense of accomplishment when you are finally complaining that Cap and Bullseye are too powerful and need a nerf?

Kelbris

jozier wrote:

D3,

Please nerf the entire game so I don't have to play and I can push butan all day.

I MUST play this game and actually think and have variation.

IF you aren't playing the game and strategizing and varying your roster, you will lose.

The actual game is too strong for this game. It makes it a real game.

For gaming you can use CANDY CRUSH or FLAPPY BIRD. For time wasters you can use Angry Birds, clash of clans, etc, etc.

So you have to play the game until you play other games it looks like. Both these need to be changed. I would like the game removed from the game. The other part of the game is fine.

I get that this is parody, but calling a one button smartphone app a "game" is kind of pushing it