** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

OBW is fine IMO. The absolute most you would need to do to her if you THOUGHT she was imbalanced would be to add 1 AP to AR's cost. That way 3 purple colours with espionage doesn't let you AR with only 2 matches if the opponent has at least 2 purple to steal.

It's not all that hard to stop her getting AR off in general and her heal is useful but not all that big when compared to actual damaging abilities considering players will focus one enemy hero not spread damage around like the AI is forced to. IIRC it's 1228 healing at 85 with 5 blue covers for 9 AP. There are plenty of ways to do more than that dmg with 9 or thereabouts AP in another colour.

IMO there are 2 reasons ppl think she is OP. Firstly her abilities actually stop you doing stuff rather than just damaging you which is a lot more memorable and secondly you see her A LOT because she is the only 2* healer.

Because she's so prevalent the chances are, if you lose to an AI cascade, she's on the field and doing something to you. That means almost every time you lose she's right there to take the blame when in reality any decent hero can chunk you with a nasty enough cascade. If you are losing to OBW without a cascade then you need to deny purples.

Incidentally she's not the first hero you play around in PvP. That is going to be M.Storm or Jugger who equally need playing around if you are in the 1* stage. You just get past that into 2* territory a lot quicker than you can get from 2 to 3, so a lot more focus on 2* heroes.

Unknown

Instead of repeating what I said several times across several similar forums I restrict myself to using the new cool +1 feature for at least a few days.

famousfoxking

octagon69 wrote:

Please nerf OBW so I don't have to use her all the time.

While I don't think this is the right approach, I do understand the frustration. I only have 2 yellow covers for my Spider-man, so his healing is much slower to get off than OBW's, and he simply can't be relied upon (yet) to provide that function. I effectively have only one healer, so I feel a bit compelled to use her when I can. She isn't, by any stretch of the imagination, over powered, however, and shouldn't be nerfed. My preferred solution would be to provide about 2 more healers (one each at the 2* and 3* level) to vary rosters a bit more. There are other characters who have a steal, so if you're building a list around that, you're well covered (mBW, Daredevil, the Hood, Psylocke), but group heals are fewer and farther between.

If I had my druthers, I'd see a 3* Silver Surfer with heal and protect tile generation (space hippie that he is) and a 2* Scarlet Witch with a heal and maybe some tile swapping/conversion.

Unknown

famousfoxking wrote:

If I had my druthers, I'd see a 3* Silver Surfer with heal and protect tile generation (space hippie that he is) and a 2* Scarlet Witch with a heal and maybe some tile swapping/conversion.

Yeah, she'd need three powers. A heal, a tile swap/convert, and a "destroy everything as you know it" power

GumisK

Telepath wrote:

Yeah, she'd need three powers. A heal, a tile swap/convert, and a "destroy everything as you know it" power

This one may prove pretty difficult to balance, I guess
On topic: more healers = less health packs used. While such change would be beneficial for the players, I'll bet the devs think otherwise.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

LOL indeed, I wonder what * team you would send against say maxed OBW/IM35/mStorm and just sit back to win easy points.

Just sit back to win easy points? Now we can see who have a problems with OBW.

What * team? Even standard IM35/Modern Storm / Modern Black Widow will do it. If IM35 or Black Widow replace to Juggernaut the fight will be much faster.

Unknown

Now seriously, suppose we have the *star tournament again but OBW added to the pool -- what is your estimate on teams using OBW? If ignore the set of people not having her I go with the 100% estimate.

Anyone for a lower than 95?

Gigas Breaker

Guys, her utility is obviously balanced by her goofy ridiculous outfit.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Now seriously, suppose we have the *star tournament again but OBW added to the pool -- what is your estimate on teams using OBW? If ignore the set of people not having her I go with the 100% estimate.

Anyone for a lower than 95?

And if we have the lonestar tournament and add Thor to the pool how many ppl would use Thor....
And if we have the lonestar tournament and add Daken to the pool how many ppl would use Daken....

Rinse - Repeat for any 2* which is commonly maxed out although I would agree that if you ran the 1* tournament and allowed people to add a single 2* of their choice to their team it would pretty much always be OBW BUT if there was a 1* healing alternative then IMO she'd be well down the list.

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

And if we have the lonestar tournament and add Thor to the pool how many ppl would use Thor....
...

You miss the context, someone here made statement that OBW's health is meh even for a *star arena.

Unknown

Gigas Breaker wrote:

Guys, her utility is obviously balanced by her goofy ridiculous outfit.

It would too but the mask shifts it over again...

KaioShinDE

Gigas Breaker wrote:

Guys, her utility is obviously balanced by her goofy ridiculous outfit.

No love for fishnets? Her outfit makes her OP. Bah.

Unknown

mbpm1 wrote:

kaepamerica7 wrote:

SirKopath wrote:

Am I the only one who sees OBW and thinks, sweet, a team with a 3K health character? easy points

Before you can take 3k she will steal your AP and heal herself unsless you use a bunch of boosts in which you have a fighting chance

Not if you have OBW yourself.

Isn't that a sign that there's a problem? If only OBW can beat OBW, that means that everyone who has her, plays her.

Unknown

Gigas Breaker wrote:

Guys, her utility is obviously balanced by her goofy ridiculous outfit.

Heh. Actually I've always wondered, since that was her original outfit, did they change it because it was too close to Black Canary's and DC was getting a bit feisty or was it because it was outdated for the 70's or just for general practicality's sake?

Unknown

From the point of view of a new'ish player who only recently got OBW covers (from last Hulk events) and only have it at level 61, it's insane that this single character has finally allowed me to play a lot more competitively (sprinkling of top 5/10 placements on recent events against field of 85-100s). Beforehand, I can only play until health packs run out. With OBW, I can play indefinitely barring crazy cascades/one-shot abilities (which can be circumvented by retreating). So with just this single addition, who isn't even maxed btw, I can play the game more like a "normal" match-3 game without limiting my playtime at all.

Her low HP doesn't really matter defensively since defensive losses doesn't really matter when you can continuously play to regain the points. My characters don't lose HP when I get hit so by all means, attack away. As long as I have the time to play, OBW lets me play during the entire time I have available. Offensively, her low HP isn't that bad either since you can predict when the AI will use abilities and I can match my tank's (Thor's) color to eat the big hit while focusing on Purple/Blue matches otherwise. Barring one-shot abilities, I can take on higher leveled teams (level 100s Spidey/Punisher/x is the highest I've beaten so far) with OBW/Thor/MStorm just by grinding them down and denying AP.

So for me, she makes the game a lot more enjoyable. I only wish that I can finish her covers though (at 3/4/3 right now).

KaioShinDE

Viorala wrote:

Gigas Breaker wrote:

Guys, her utility is obviously balanced by her goofy ridiculous outfit.

Heh. Actually I've always wondered, since that was her original outfit, did they change it because it was too close to Black Canary's and DC was getting a bit feisty or was it because it was outdated for the 70's or just for general practicality's sake?

Back in the day Marvel changed outfits all the time...

Wasp alone during the original Avengers had like 15 different looks. And was just during the ~150 issues I read of it so far...

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

bonfire01 wrote:

And if we have the lonestar tournament and add Thor to the pool how many ppl would use Thor....
...

You miss the context, someone here made statement that OBW's health is meh even for a *star arena.

Ahh ok, well I guess Jugger and venom have more health than her but her health isn't all that bad. the Hood makes her look tanky!

Unknown

KaioShinDE wrote:

Viorala wrote:

Gigas Breaker wrote:

Guys, her utility is obviously balanced by her goofy ridiculous outfit.

Heh. Actually I've always wondered, since that was her original outfit, did they change it because it was too close to Black Canary's and DC was getting a bit feisty or was it because it was outdated for the 70's or just for general practicality's sake?

Back in the day Marvel changed outfits all the time...

Wasp alone during the original Avengers had like 15 different looks. And was just during the ~150 issues I read of it so far...

Ah yeah. Some characters they just never managed to get a decent look - Kitty Pryde also. But OT I'm so unhappy about the Antman movie, Hank Pym is a ****. I guess I should move to the off topic discussion board for that.

Unknown

KaioShinDE wrote:

Wasp alone during the original Avengers had like 15 different looks. And was just during the ~150 issues I read of it so far...

That was part of her charm though... she was supposed to be this jet-setting socialite. She simply couldn't defeat a super villain with the same outfit twice!

Unknown

grimeon wrote:

Isn't that a sign that there's a problem? If only OBW can beat OBW, that means that everyone who has her, plays her.

I don't see the problem. If you unroll the advice, it is really not about using your OBW but using whatever purple char at hand -- as in the match you will need to pick purples and without a user it's suboptimal play. Say in latest Thor tournament I was not using OBW while most teams had her, but hardly a problem with CMags.

Meanwhile underuse of purple in the game characters is indeed a problem -- to be handled by addition.