** Black Widow (Original) ** [PRE 2014-06]

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

As a two star player I find there are many boards where matching purples just to deny OBW actually allows her to charge her recon faster because she can now use espionage against me.

Very true, you better look at the board and decide the tactics, often the better way is to leave the purples to her, collect some single color, wait out being robbed for the bare minimum and win from there. (mostly applies to the lev3 recon variant.)

Certainly with your own OBW you steal the purple back, it cna be better to play the chicken game and grab the second purple.

In any case be on lookout for all 3 colors in espionage and use the abilities while you can.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Has anyone else noticed OBW via the AI has been getting harder to play against?

Not really, what happened?

BearVenger

I'm an unapologetic 3/5/5 OBW user, and I will use her to get my team back into the game. I hoard my boosts and health packs, unless I'm at the end of an event and trying to fight off the zombie hordes dragging me back to the masses.

But I also find her very easy to play against. Unless she's paired with a CStorm, I always take out OBW first. I'd say about 95% of the time, I can keep her from throwing out Aggressive Recon, but that 5% of the time, it's Game Over. I can live with those odds. On her own, she's an annoyance and easily beaten. I don't think I've ever had more than two come-from-behind victories with only an OBW.

Unknown

I'm one of the many OBW users, and I do so because she keeps me in the game. A lot of time, with her two active abilities, I can win a match without taking so much damage I need to use health packs before the next match. If there was a replacement, I'd love to use them though. I know, Spiderman, but I just don't have any of those covers. I think we need more focus on two star characters for a bit. Ares was the last two star character we got, and he's as far from a support character as you can get. I'd rather get a few supporting two stars than rehashing two stars into three stars.

Unknown

Is OBW annoying, yes... But is she OP or ruining PvP, no...I dread facing a team with her more than any other character (mostly due to the monotony of it), but as discussed in this forum it isn't difficult to defeat her and I also find facing her an easy victory...My only problem is that I love to experiment with different teams however, I have to keep using teams that can counter OBW because she is on the majority of teams and does require a specific set of skills to defeat her... but I guess that's what S.H.I.E.L.D. Versus is for...

OzarkBoatswain

Here's a change to Aggressive Recon that I propose. If d3 wants to use this I give it away to them.

Aggressive Recon
Purple 6 AP
Steals 2 Yellow, Red, and Green AP.
Level 2: Also steals Black AP. Costs 1 AP more.
Level 3: Also steals Blue AP. Costs 1 AP more.
Level 4: Steals 3 AP. Costs 1 AP more.
Level 5: Also steals Purple AP. Costs 1 AP more.

Starting colors are the ones that Espionage doesn't use. Blue steal moved to level 3 to make sure that level is better than level 2.
At level 3, costs the same 8 AP, but steals 2 instead of 3. At max, costs 10 AP instead of 11, but steals 3 instead of 4.

Advantages:
Lower AP increases. No 'dud' levels like the old level 4.
Level 3, which most players use now, is very similar.
It is a minor nerf while also having an arguable buff (lower cost) at levels 4 and 5.

Unknown

An interesting observatiom: OBW is not really good standing alone.

In the current game I killed storm first (obviously) then somehow the other guy got downed leaving just OBW. I was thinking 'what threat'?

Unknown

And a quiz/trivia question: why OBW, that didn't change a bit was not ruining PVP before the thorverine nerf?

(note: the answer 'cuz at that time thorverine ruined PVP' worth a DQ )

vudu3

Slightly off topic--I just faced off against a team in PVP that had an OBW. Her Agressive Recon shows that it cost 11 AP and stole 4 of each color. She managed to use it twice before I could kill her--both times it cost her 8 AP and she stole 3 of each color. Anyone else ever experience this bug?

Unknown

Mooseman22883 wrote:

Is OBW annoying, yes... But is she OP or ruining PvP, no...I dread facing a team with her more than any other character (mostly due to the monotony of it), but as discussed in this forum it isn't difficult to defeat her and I also find facing her an easy victory...My only problem is that I love to experiment with different teams however, I have to keep using teams that can counter OBW because she is on the majority of teams and does require a specific set of skills to defeat her...

The only "specific skill" you need to beat OBW is damage. My level 141 team routinely kills her between turns 3 and 5. She's nothing but a giant PvP target that says "please crush me". There are characters to avoid and characters to seek out. She's top of the list for seeking out since she dies before she accomplishes anything useful.

GuntherBlobel

I'm as sick of OBW as anyone. I don't use her myself and I've lost many rounds to her, but I don't think she's so overpowered that she requires a Thorverine-like revamp. She is powerful, but in a way that I wish other characters were. One reason she is so useful is because her powers actually synergize with other characters. Most other characters just complement each other, at best. But Espionage and strike synergize amazingly well.

Overall, the game is lacking in this design. And that is the major thing I blame for the lack of team diversity.

That said, I wouldn't mind if her Espionage double-tap only damaged me if I actually have AP left to steal! That **** hurts!

Unknown

I don't think that she is a problem at all. I have never skipped a match because I see a lvl 85 OBW. Even with other 2* characters, just kill her and move on. Plus, being a 2* char most people have access to her so you can just bring your own.

I think that diversity can be fixed in other ways. In the current simulator event, OBW is not buffed. I find myself playing with three buffed char and leaving her on the sideline. You see this a lot in lightning rounds also. Who wants a level 85 OBW when you can have a level 120 tank or damage dealer? Some tournaments exclude char all together. This forces people to build their roster to compete (good and bad if you don't have a deep roster).

I say leave her alone for now.

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

...Because she's so prevalent the chances are, if you lose to an AI cascade, she's on the field and doing something to you. That means almost every time you lose she's right there to take the blame when in reality any decent hero can chunk you with a nasty enough cascade.

this is completely true.

but has anyone else noticed her having a high "luck" with cascades? i'm not complaining (my OBW brings the same "luck" as any opposing OBW i've faced), but for every 10 cascades i give or take, she is the cause of 8 of them. and i'm talking about the kind that can't be planned because they involve tiles from off screen to come into play.

i thought i noticed it when i started battling other 2-star teams but thought maybe MPQ & OBW just hated me for whatever reason (you can't block her purple AP if she cascades it from off screen). but then i got a few of her covers and started using her and since then she has been "luckily" creating about 80% of my cascades (the unplannable kind that involve tiles from off screen).

maybe it's just me.

(once i faced her and the match started with only 5 purple on the board. i matched 3 of them and figured i'd be safe from her grabbing purple for at least a few turns. then her first move pulls off a lucky cascade that included 6 purple from off screen and she nets in 8 purple + steal 1 purple from me. LOL. EDIT: i still won that match but similar cascades happen often with her.)

Frubzy

I only recently started playing with obw.... She really is a game changer

octagon69

... Didn't expect my nerf thread to get that many replies.

Too much reliance on OBW in 2 stars and too much on Spider man in the three stars it looks like.


If someone uses Spiderman, I don't feel I have to use Spiderman to counteract him.

But OBW you do. She will steal pink and blue until she can heal and steal.

You all need to get off OBW's D.

Unknown

octagon69 wrote:

You all need to get off OBW's D.

Nope. Wee all need to get off you.

octagon69 wrote:

... Didn't expect my nerf thread to get that many replies.

Guys, don't feed the troll.

Unknown

Not agreeing for a nerf but "just deny purple" is a copout. Im not sure if you've noticed but the boards are random. If the ai gets the right drops she's going to get enough no matter what you do. Im running a 100 or slightly above team and she's one of three or four characters that im wary of, she's also the reason for just about every loss I've had for a long while.
Nine times out of ten she's easy but if she gets the right drops and gets off her purple outside of the first few turns im usually screwed.

Unknown

The AI places no special emphasis on a color as long as it's one that it is not weak at (single digit damage). OBW covers black, purple, and blue. Unless you're trying to build a very weird team, you almost certainly also have red and green on your colors, so you should have at least 5 colors with OBW on your team. So the chance for the AI to not pick purple to focus on is 5/7, or 71% (AI clearly values environmental), and 86% if it has all 6 colors.

It's not that you can deny purple but rather the AI didn't want purple because it never valued any color over any other color (or over environmental).

Unknown

I don't think talking about AI OBWs is particularly relevant. People are right, she *is* easy to kill when she is on defense. Her sheer strength on defense is making her a required two-star, though.

I think the game either needs no healers, or more of them. I personally would prefer more of them.

Unknown

I mostly have 2 star characters and never had a problem with a level 85 OBW.

Just target her first and don't let her get purple or blue. She's usually an easy kill.