*** Captain America (Super Soldier) ***

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Comments

  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    dlaw008 wrote:
    Okay, so I've allowed myself to be convinced that Shieldbro is good. Heck, he's one of my favorite characters and I WANTED to be convinced. Now I'm itching to dump some covers and iso into him. So where does he fit on my existing three star team. I've got maxed Hulk, Black Panther, Punisher, and Patch, as well as 128 Cmags and 100 GSBW. He looks to pair reasonably well with BP, what's the third here? I have enough green users, goodness knows. I'm thinking possibly GSBW? Her green is nice, she brings an excellent (though not when used by the AI) purple power to the table, and her red doesn't really conflict with Cap's. I don't know about Patch in this setup, since you really want to bring someone like Cmags with him, and while Punisher seems like never a bad choice, I think he might be here due to his red and black semi-conflicting with his teammates. Hulk is fine, but it's just not striking me right now.

    What is the prevailing opinion here?

    On offense I think Hood / Cap / GSBW is probably the optimal team composition you can go for right now. Cap wants red/blue all to himself. Hood wants black to speed up Caps countdowns. This leaves you needing purple/green/yellowish, which leaves GSBW as the best 3rd to go for.

    Your roster, on the other hand, is pretty awkward. The main issue is that Cap wants blue/red all to himself, but almost every single character on your roster has either a blue or red ability. I think Cap / BP / GSBW is probably the most synergistic team comp you can go for here if you want to exploit Cap. Neither character mains red/blue so they don't interfere with Cap, and they have some pretty good abilities to round out the color wheel. Sub GSBW out for Hulk or Patch on defense.
  • HailMary
    HailMary Posts: 2,179
    dlaw008 wrote:
    While I'm not sure this belongs in Shieldbro's thread, I think MBW can get nine Blue in 5 turns relatively frequently and if her team can't kill at least one guy during that time, something is wrong. 27 blue for MBW is as close to a guaranteed stunlock as you will see outside Spiderman. You would stun the guy you meant to kill on turn 1. Attack him. Then stun guy B on turn 2, Attack guy A again, then stun guy C on turn 3, attack guy A. At turn 3 guy a is stunned for 2 more turns, B 3 more turns, C four more turns. Keep collecting blue and concentrating your attacks on the soonest ending stun. This is basically what you do in a 1* tourney to maximize your health packs.
    In a best-case blue-availability scenario, you'll still need an initial 21 B AP (27 - 2x3) to start a sustainable rolling stun-lock with MBW, and 21 B is a pretty hefty sum. Heck, it's at least 4-5 match-4s with very lucky placements (4x4 = 16, add a very lucky 5 B as part of row-clears/cascades). I've used the MBW stunlock back in my 1* days, but always with just two permastunned enemies, because full-team stunlock capability usually comes way too late when you factor in AP-denial matches and hitter-fueling matches.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Who you put together with Captain America depends on what you're going for.

    If you're going for some kind of unconditionally most powerful team it'd be Captain + Thor + magic glue guy, who can either be The Hood or OBW (Spiderman interferes with Thor's yellow and Captain's blue so probably shouldn't be used). Yes Thor's red gets in the way of Captain's red but Thor is still strong enough overall to take that risk. I don't think OBW's blue interferes with Captain because it's good enough that I wouldn't mind getting an Anti-Grav instead of Peacemaker on defense, and if anything given the AI's tendency to randomly place tiles, you'd probably prefer Anti-Grav over Peacemaker anyway).

    If you want a team tailored to Captain's strength then you can't have anyone with a cheaper red. This likely means Captain + Patch or Hulk + magic glue guy (same issue as above).
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Well first let me state that, for me, defense is really an afterthought. My Hulk is maxed due to his ability to cover Punisher on offense. As far as defense is concerned I figure if I'm worth a lot of points I will be attacked no matter what my team is and I will lose because the AI is that bad. Not that I mind because I like playing against a bad AI sometimes, too.

    So, strictly speaking as an attacker, I'm not too worried about Panther's blue or yellow conflicting with Cap. Blue goes to Cap, Yellow goes to Panther, although yellow won't be a priority to match. I suppose I should level my Hood more, but then I'm cutting into ISO for Cap. icon_e_sad.gif Hood is currently 60. The Hood and Cap team up definitely rules out Panther, though. Cmags is great even on his own, but has less synergy without Littlebunnypunpun or Patch. GSBW means not leaving purple on the table and has a good green. Will hood ever cover her on black? No matter who takes it I guess I'm exposing a weak character on a bunch of colors, including possibly green, depending on where Cap goes.

    It's an interesting discussion.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    gamar wrote:
    HailMary wrote:
    locked wrote:
    Rorex, whatcha talking about? mBW stuns the entire enemy team for 1 turn and the targeted character for 5 turns at lvl 5 blue with 9 blue AP.
    Unless that's what you were trying to say. She's not the character to stunlock anyway, maybe with IM 40 or MMN.
    That's... exactly what he's saying. With 27 B: select enemy 1, MBW-stun, select enemy 2, MBW-stun, select enemy 3, MBW-stun. Et voila: 5-turn team stunlock!

    The huge startup-cost differential between MBW's 5-turn team-stun and Spidey's essentially endless team-stun, though, is, ahem, huge.

    5 turns isn't generally enough to kill an enemy team. Generally when people say they have a "lock" they mean they can almost always continue it indefinitely, or close enough to indefinitely to ensure a victory. Otherwise it isn't a stun-lock, it's just a stun.

    First thanks for clarifying that HailMary. I would give you a thumbs up if I could

    Second I agree its not a guarntee that you can keep everyone stunned but as close as your going to get outside of Spidey. I have done it using MMN in combination during one of the heroics where Spidey and OBW were not available.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I don't think you need to worry about how your team looks like for offense because Captain's red is just so overpowering it's hard to see you somehow not winning with any reasonable team. Therefore when setting up a team with him the question is really do you have Thor or not. If you have Thor, you can't count on his red being used, but it's probably worth it since Thor brings a ton to the power too. If you don't have Thor, no one else brings enough power to warrant risking Captain's red, so you either have to use someone without a red, or someone with a red that cost more than Captain's, and that pretty much forces the second guy to be Hulk or Patch out of the usable 3*s (third guy is still going to be support).
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    dlaw008 wrote:
    Well first let me state that, for me, defense is really an afterthought. My Hulk is maxed due to his ability to cover Punisher on offense. As far as defense is concerned I figure if I'm worth a lot of points I will be attacked no matter what my team is and I will lose because the AI is that bad. Not that I mind because I like playing against a bad AI sometimes, too.

    So, strictly speaking as an attacker, I'm not too worried about Panther's blue or yellow conflicting with Cap. Blue goes to Cap, Yellow goes to Panther, although yellow won't be a priority to match. I suppose I should level my Hood more, but then I'm cutting into ISO for Cap. icon_e_sad.gif Hood is currently 60. The Hood and Cap team up definitely rules out Panther, though. Cmags is great even on his own, but has less synergy without Littlebunnypunpun or Patch. GSBW means not leaving purple on the table and has a good green. Will hood ever cover her on black? No matter who takes it I guess I'm exposing a weak character on a bunch of colors, including possibly green, depending on where Cap goes.

    It's an interesting discussion.

    A little more on Topic. A level 60 Hood with 5 blue covers and at least 3 black covers (essentially assuming the normal 5/5/3 build) will be just as effective at stealing AP and reducing countdowns.

    In addition when paired with the max level BP who shares the same color combination and order will be 100% protected on offense with the excetption of AOE attacks. While obviously you don't want BP and Hood fighting over black at least BP's black attack is more of a finishing move. So early in the game you use Hood to speed up Cap, late in the game you use BP. That said they will be horrible on Defense.

    However using lvl 60 Hood/BWGS/Cap looks like your best option for offense. BWGS will cover Hood on Black and Blue and Cap on Yellow. So his horrible hitpoints don't matter unless you get hit by a AOE and since the only thing that scales is his black damage assuming full covers there really isn't a reason not to use him. I would say that if you do decide to go this route that you should ensure you change out Hood on your last battle of the day. Assuming a high MMR a lvl 60 Hood is going to look pretty irrestiable.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    On offense I think Hood / Cap / GSBW is probably the optimal team composition you can go for right now. Cap wants red/blue all to himself. Hood wants black to speed up Caps countdowns. This leaves you needing purple/green/yellowish, which leaves GSBW as the best 3rd to go for.

    Your roster, on the other hand, is pretty awkward. The main issue is that Cap wants blue/red all to himself, but almost every single character on your roster has either a blue or red ability. I think Cap / BP / GSBW is probably the most synergistic team comp you can go for here if you want to exploit Cap. Neither character mains red/blue so they don't interfere with Cap, and they have some pretty good abilities to round out the color wheel. Sub GSBW out for Hulk or Patch on defense.

    I've been thinking about this comp myself
    The main draw to using Cap for me is getting surprise defense wins with cap + hood synergy while I'm climbing
    I don't really see that happening with GSBW using red randomly though icon_e_sad.gif
    If I'm switching teams for defense anyways I'd rather put in a full hp wall team, which is probably gonna look like hulk/lazythor/daken soon

    also re the post above me
    Why would you want gsbw covering hood
    Hood's the ideal first teammate to go down, and their hp is very similar at max anyways
    let's not even go into climbing points with a level 60 3*** on your team ;PPP
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Puritas wrote:
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    On offense I think Hood / Cap / GSBW is probably the optimal team composition you can go for right now. Cap wants red/blue all to himself. Hood wants black to speed up Caps countdowns. This leaves you needing purple/green/yellowish, which leaves GSBW as the best 3rd to go for.

    Your roster, on the other hand, is pretty awkward. The main issue is that Cap wants blue/red all to himself, but almost every single character on your roster has either a blue or red ability. I think Cap / BP / GSBW is probably the most synergistic team comp you can go for here if you want to exploit Cap. Neither character mains red/blue so they don't interfere with Cap, and they have some pretty good abilities to round out the color wheel. Sub GSBW out for Hulk or Patch on defense.

    I've been thinking about this comp myself
    The main draw to using Cap for me is getting surprise defense wins with cap + hood synergy while I'm climbing
    I don't really see that happening with GSBW using red randomly though icon_e_sad.gif
    If I'm switching teams for defense anyways I'd rather put in a full hp wall team, which is probably gonna look like hulk/lazythor/daken soon

    also re the post above me
    Why would you want gsbw covering hood
    Hood's the ideal first teammate to go down, and their hp is very similar at max anyways

    I"m still debating whether or not Hood deserves a spot on defense: I'm pretty sure he warps the game enough to be considered in all events that don't involve a buffed character that can destroy him. AP boosts are pretty terrible against the Hood since he'll just steal stray AP.
  • HailMary
    HailMary Posts: 2,179
    Puritas wrote:
    a full hp wall team, which is probably gonna look like hulk/lazythor/daken soon
    Yep. That'd be an extremely annoying defensive team. BP in place of LThor might actually be better, since you lose the green generator, but you gain RageOTP.

    That said, Shieldbro seems tailor-made to take down Hulk + Dakenator. You do need someone to stop LThor from using his powers, though. Hood/OBW, perhaps.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    HailMary wrote:
    Puritas wrote:
    a full hp wall team, which is probably gonna look like hulk/lazythor/daken soon
    Yep. That'd be an extremely annoying defensive team. I very much look forward to getting my hands on such a monumental annoyance. icon_e_biggrin.gif

    That said, Shieldbro seems tailor-made to take down Hulk + Dakenator. You do need someone to stop LThor from using his powers, though. Hood/OBW, perhaps.

    I think BP would be better than Hulk in that team composition. Since Dakens color priorities are Green -> Black -> Purple, black is going to be a high priority match for the AI. Since no one on your team can use black, it'll go largely wasted, whereas a BP would change that completely. You might even consider BP over LT and keep Hulk on the team if you wanted maximum annoyance, but LT is probably good enough to win you games on defense whereas Hulk might not.
  • HailMary
    HailMary Posts: 2,179
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    I think BP would be better than Hulk in that team composition. Since Dakens color priorities are Green -> Black -> Purple, black is going to be a high priority match for the AI. Since no one on your team can use black, it'll go largely wasted, whereas a BP would change that completely. You might even consider BP over LT and keep Hulk on the team if you wanted maximum annoyance, but LT is probably good enough to win you games on defense whereas Hulk might not.
    Hehe, I was editing as you were responding. icon_razz.gif

    I didn't even know about Daken's color priorities. Cool info! I think you still want the Hulkenator tag team, though, since any AoE (ahem, Call the Storm) or errant Hulk-targeted attack would probably create Dakenator strike tiles, and Dakenator's self-heal can probably shrug off any medium-damage attack. So, yes, Hulkenator + BP would be quite annoying and fairly dangerous.

    However, without LThor, the AI likely wouldn't match red tiles much, which makes the team more susceptible to Shieldbro. So, there are tradeoffs,from where I stand.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    I really love the Shieldbro designation, but I can't decide by looking at his portrait if it is really merited. I think he may look a little more metrosexual than bro....

    I bet he man-scapes.
  • HailMary
    HailMary Posts: 2,179
    dlaw008 wrote:
    I really love the Shieldbro designation, but I can't decide by looking at his portrait if it is really merited. I think he may look a little more metrosexual than bro....

    I bet he man-scapes.
    He looks like an evil, high-level henchman -- the kind who menacingly cracks his knuckles at 007 while sporting a thousand-yard stare.

    In short: yes, he probably manscapes.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Puritas wrote:
    I've been thinking about this comp myself
    The main draw to using Cap for me is getting surprise defense wins with cap + hood synergy while I'm climbing
    I don't really see that happening with GSBW using red randomly though icon_e_sad.gif
    If I'm switching teams for defense anyways I'd rather put in a full hp wall team, which is probably gonna look like hulk/lazythor/daken soon

    The lowest cost for GSBW's red is 14 AP at level 3 (can be made even higher by adding more covers). That should be comfortably safe in terms of AI usage (you'd need to be sitting on 10 red AP and got 4 red AP in one turn). The problem is what are you expecting out of GSBW defensively? Do you really think the computer will miraculously collect 19 green and pull off a victory? If so you might as well use Thor, who requires less and has two ways to unleash his game over attack (via yellow or via green). If not, Hulk has an equally expensive red, and his green is more practical.
  • Puritas
    Puritas Posts: 670 Critical Contributor
    yeah good point icon_e_sad.gif
    I was mostly hoping for some miraculous reason to level my GSBW
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    GSBW is a good character, but she won't do anything for you on defense, if that is your concern. Her purple not only helps get to her green, but can do a hefty sum of damage, too. Most of the time, if you can get her purple (9 is it?) you will kill two characters that turn and cripple the third. I tried using her with BP a while ago and it was almost too much. I found I almost never needed both AOEs. If one got off it was enough. Now thinking of putting Cap in that mix, someone is going to get hurt....
  • Phaserhawk
    Phaserhawk Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    I agree, I think Cap and Hood are gonna be great defensively, it's just finding that 3rd guy that won't mess with Cap much. So as I said we need a green, purple to complete the rainbow, and someone who won't interfere with Caps blue and red or Hood's black since his black is oh so good with the CD tiles. I honestly think Hulk is probably the best pairing followed by Patch. And if you put Hulk front and center he'll tank red for Cap as they are both 60. If you are okay giving up Caps's red and yellow up, then you can look at Thor, and if you are okay with giving red up, the new Human Torch may be a good pairing as well.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    When you got an overpowered guy you're building around you really don't have to worry about offense. It's hard to see an attack failing in PvP with Captain plus any two decent guys. So you only have to worry about defense, because winning is nearly assured. The Hood seems tailored as a support guy for Captain, so your third guy boils down to:

    Thor, who has two colors he can win defensively (green and yellow) but interfers with red

    or

    Strongest character who doesn't interfere with red (can't have cheaper cost red). In particular, that rules out anyone with a red under 11. This pretty much limits you to Hulk and Patch for all practical purposes. Both have a green power, which is a good thing too since giving up green is not the greatest idea in the world (it's probably the best overall offense color).
  • aussiemac
    aussiemac Posts: 140 Tile Toppler
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I agree, I think Cap and Hood are gonna be great defensively, it's just finding that 3rd guy that won't mess with Cap much. So as I said we need a green, purple to complete the rainbow, and someone who won't interfere with Caps blue and red or Hood's black since his black is oh so good with the CD tiles. I honestly think Hulk is probably the best pairing followed by Patch. And if you put Hulk front and center he'll tank red for Cap as they are both 60. If you are okay giving up Caps's red and yellow up, then you can look at Thor, and if you are okay with giving red up, the new Human Torch may be a good pairing as well.

    An issue with Human Torch is the black may interfere with Hood. If you're worried about defense, you can go wrong with Thor/Hulk/Patch + Hood and Cap. They are all tanks and deal huge damage. They also keep Hood's black open. The only issue is you may not get any defensive wins, just everyone passing. But I suppose not getting knocked back is a successful defense as well!

    EDIT: An interesting combo would be Hood/CapA/IM40. Hood's black would help both CapA and IM40. And I'd have to think a successful recharge would be game over with the AP loop of Cap's shield play.

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