Game Updates: 5-Star Rates & Iso

MPQ_Daywalker

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

I don't believe you remember correctly. I was hoarding tokens and ISO for nearly a full season in anticipation of champions IIRC.

I was too, but not based on anything officially announced either in-game or on the forums. All based on unofficial speculation.

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

They announced the change with a pop-up graphic in game, there would have been nothing preventing them from adding a note during CW1 telling of coming changes. I believe they have made announcements of things to come in this manner in the past as well.

I don't recall them ever making an announcement that "something cool is coming" with any details whatsoever either in game or in the forums. If you do, provide a link. Only thing I can think of is IceIX appearing on the Puzzle Warriors 3 podcast in December and talking, very generally, about how something big was coming in January.

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

We didn't make assumptions based on them not saying anything. We made assumptions based on them saying that the 5* draw rate would stay at 10% when the 3rd and future 5*s were added.

Still an assumption. We can always assume the game will never change or will still stay exactly as it has been announced in the past to be, but that won't stop them from changing their minds and putting in features or changing mechanics (Deadpool Daily, Command Points, 5*s, Championing, etc.).

I'm not even trying to defend Demiurge's actions here, to be honest. I'm just saying it fits in with how they've operated in the past, so I guess I'm not surprised.

mpqr7

Moving forward, players who hoard should perhaps open up half of their tokens before a big change. So you mitigate any loses either way... either half of them had better odds, and half had worse.

Myself, I can't hoard LTs, I'm just too excited to open them, so it had no negative affect on me.

slidecage

_Daywalker_ wrote:

I think these changes are all extremely positive. More daily ISO? Better odds for 5*s? A way to farm 2* champions for 3* covers and HP for under 8000 ISO? All great stuff.

To those disappointed by the lack of advance notice about the change, I understand your frustration if you just blew through tokens and CP. But in my view, what Demiurge has done fits in with how they've always operated this game. They've never encouraged anyone to hoard tokens. The last major game-changing feature release was championing, and they didn't give us reasonable advance notice for that one either. At the time, everyone was speculating because we knew something was coming, and people looking at the code thought it had something to do with this "champion" stuff they're seeing in there, so people started hanging on to tokens and covers, just in case. But at no time did Demiurge make an announcement in advance saying what was coming -- in fact, they removed any posts speculating about championing from the forums. We found out about championing about a day before it launched, if I remember correctly, and even then I think it launched a little later than they originally planned so the announcement was slightly premature from their standpoint.

I think they don't want to encourage token or CP hoarding in anticipation of future changes simply because they don't want to give a subset of their player base (the forumites) additional notice that the rest of the the player base would not have. They want to limit the number of 5*s that people have, so why would they encourage just some players to hoard tokens/CP for better odds on those 5*s?

Many are upset at Demiurge/D3 for not answering their questions about the odds changing for the last month or so. Perhaps instead the community should learn a different lesson here. If Demiurge isn't saying anything on a particular feature, it doesn't mean that they aren't working on it or that it won't be coming. So if we make assumptions based on them not saying anything (and then open tokens/spend CP based on those assumptions), they're just that -- assumptions. Demiurge didn't lie and say nothing is changing, they just didn't answer because they didn't want to give anyone an advantage.

thought most knew something was coming.. with 2 new 5 stars (capt and iron) knew something had to happen...... i was really hoping for a 4 star stand alone for 10 cp though

lockvine

Just think of your champed 2*'s as a loan with a 5000-7000 ISO fee depending on what covers you keep or sell. It makes since to do this if your going to loose a wanted/needed 3*,4*,5* cover because you don't have the ISO to champ it before the cover expires. You can get some quick ISO to save those covers but in the end you will pay all that back with a fee.

2* Costs
63 covers ISO -15750
cost to level ISO -69530
promote cost ISO -5000
Totals ISO -90280

2* Champ Rewards
Sell price HP 125 ISO 65000
CP 5
HP 250
ISO Rewards 17500
Heroic Tokens 5
3* Covers 3

2* Farming NET
CP's 5
HP's 375
ISO -7780
Heroic Tokens 5
3* Covers 3

vaportrail

Positive changes all around, thanks Devs!

cooperbigdaddy

Yay! This sounds wonderful! Thanks, devs!

Alliance ISO boost: No complaints. This is incredible. I'm in an alliance where not everyone plays everyday and I'm very excited for this ISO add.

Higher champ sellback: Great! I'm still 30 or so covers from selling any maxed 2*s (and forget about 3* or higher champs any year soon), but I'm still very excited to start over again on some 2*s when I do and not have a tremendous loss.

Higher 5* pull rates: This doesn't affect me because I won't open an LT until I've gotten all the 3*s and have an open slot (I'm a hoarder). But when I DO get to that part, I will enjoy this addition. Until then, I hope everyone else enjoys this higher rate. I like it when changes benefit people, whether it's me or not!

War Machine added: Whatever. I literally don't even think about the new characters.

Very happy with all these changes! Hoping for more positive changes like this.

Chipster22

A question occurred to me.

What would be the point of selling a 5* at level 550 for 500k ISO?

What is there in the game would be an improvement?

Codex

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

You can now start Championing your characters (and earning all the rewards!) all over again without having to spend the whole amount of Iso-8 required to fully level a character.

Thanks for playing. We hope you find the changes beneficial!

Can we get clarification on this. Doesn't seem to be in game currently

GrumpySmurf1002

Chipster22 wrote:

A question occurred to me.

What would be the point of selling a 5* at level 550 for 500k ISO?

What is there in the game would be an improvement?

You could in theory farm duplicate 5* in the same fashion as you would any other character. No one but the Ultra-Whales will sniff such a scenario anytime soon, but those players like rewards too, and they could always convert those resources into the next 5* that comes through.

There's always the possibility (years down the line) that doing so becomes as 'easy' as doing it with a 3 or 4* now, so no reason not to add the feature at the same time.

snlf25

I love these changes, sold my three least used 2* champions, will rebuild and do it again too. Gave me enough iso to finish championing Vision and I have enough left to finish any of my remaining 3* depending on token pulls. Gonna be booting people a lot faster for not playing everyday now lol.

Thank you for this, devs. I'm glad you still listen.

Linkster79

The increase in ISO for being in an alliance is good news as long as you are in a full and active alliance.

The increase draw rate for 5* isn't as good. Those who make these decisions seen to be in complete denial about the 5* tier and acquiring them. The game wasn't ready for the god like 5* tier, the way to gather command points got utterly borked as soon as they were awarded for purchases and the randomness just meant that those who got lucky got ahead faster. A small increase in drop rates still means there will be winners and losers. The token award system for 4* and above drastically needs overhauling.

mazerat

So the chance of pulling a 4* was already worse than a 5* and will continue to get worse with each new 4*--counting Kate, it would have been 2.64% under the old odds and is 2.5% under new odds. So why should players bother with the 4* tier at all? Are the t10 and PvP 4* covers accessible enough to a 3* champ team to make it worthwhile?

BlackSheep101

People don't transition to specific 4*s, they transition to the tier. You're still pulling 85% 4*s from LTs, still getting 4*s as champ rewards, so yes, you should still transition to 4* from 3*.

Jam_Adams

it would still be nice to have a 4* only token. maybe even two, broken down like LTs are: "Classic" and "Latest". prices set accordingly (15 CP and 18 CP?)

snlf25

mazerat wrote:

So the chance of pulling a 4* was already worse than a 5* and will continue to get worse with each new 4*--counting Kate, it would have been 2.64% under the old odds and is 2.5% under new odds. So why should players bother with the 4* tier at all? Are the t10 and PvP 4* covers accessible enough to a 3* champ team to make it worthwhile?

I'm soft capping at level 280 so everything 3* and up will stay relevant for me as 3* champs max out at level 266. That will give me good scaling and won't ruin my game by forcing me to only use the most elite tier, the 5*s. Being able to use many diverse teams and collecting and leveling toons and figuring out new ways to use them is my favorite part of the game and that keeps the vast majority of my roster useable. It will take my badly nerfed 3*s some time to get there though. Mostly Iron Fist and Battery Man getting used now.

snlf25

Jam_Adams wrote:

it would still be nice to have a 4* only token. maybe even two, broken down like LTs are: "Classic" and "Latest". prices set accordingly (15 CP and 18 CP?)

You couldn't sell the Classic one for even 5 cp because nobody is gonna pay that for yet another bag lady, Elektra or Fury. I'd consider 10 to 15 for a latest though.

KGB

mazerat wrote:

So the chance of pulling a 4* was already worse than a 5* and will continue to get worse with each new 4*--counting Kate, it would have been 2.64% under the old odds and is 2.5% under new odds. So why should players bother with the 4* tier at all? Are the t10 and PvP 4* covers accessible enough to a 3* champ team to make it worthwhile?

As a 3* transition player who will be facing this dilemma shortly I say no and here's why (mentioned it earlier in this thread).

Once there are 40 4*s (in a few months time) the odds will be .85/40 = 2.1% for a given hero. Specific covers available via PvE/PvP rewards will come every 160 days (4 day event * 40 characters) or roughly twice a year. So even if you finish top of the top in PvP/PvE you can earn at most 4 covers (maybe 5 via DDQ if you can beat it). So 2 years to earn 8-10 covers and another 190 LT tokens opened to get roughly 4 more. Then you have to hope those 12-14 covers are not duplicates (ie 6+ of one color). Lastly you need the insane amount of ISO to level from 70 to 270 just so you can champ them.

Or you can just rely on 5* drop rate and start at L270 with characters that are vastly superior to the 4* even when they reach L270 (by the time you open those 190 LT's I mentioned above you should have almost 30 5* covers).

Why would anyone who is now in 3* land or below want to go to the 4* land? The only way will be if DDQ adds a daily 4* reward like they have in the big enchilada for 3* covers and even then it may not make any sense.

KGB

Konman

So when you increase the odds for 5*s, continually, relentlessly add more and more 4*s, then the odds of getting a particular useful 4* cover for a player in that tier of the game diminishes even more. Add to that a variety of characters that are equivalent to 4* Bagman that no one wants, and the transition from 3* to 4* is overlooked again.

Bowgentle

I'm so glad the odds were upped.
Much better to go 0/3 at 15% than at 10%.

RNG based progression needs to DIAF.

Dragon_Nexus

Codex wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

You can now start Championing your characters (and earning all the rewards!) all over again without having to spend the whole amount of Iso-8 required to fully level a character.

Thanks for playing. We hope you find the changes beneficial!

Can we get clarification on this. Doesn't seem to be in game currently

Also wanting clarification.
Does that mean if I, for example, sell my level 144 Storm, if I get a Storm cover she'll be 1/0/0 level 94? Do I need to find 13 Storm covers and she'll automatically hit the maximum possible level for those covers without needing to spend ISO?

Because if you're adding the ability to sell a 2* character for 66K ISO with the limit of needing to max them out again before selling them, but it requires NO ISO to get them to level 144 again, just covers...then this could be the greatest new feature ever and I'll sell off all my 2*s immediately.