Game Updates: 5-Star Rates & Iso

MojoWild

They could have announced this whenever, and people would still be complaining about having just opened tokens or what not.
Maybe just be grateful it happened at all.

Phaentom

Chipster22 wrote:

I tried to do the math earlier in this post: https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38691#p475438

I came up with falling 49,274 ISO short on the sale of a 2* champion, but you would get 375 Hero Points and 5 Command Points as part of the championing rewards.

They have added 47,500 ISO to the sale price of 2*s. So they way I see it you can get 375 Hero Points and 5 Command Points for 1,774 ISO now if my math is right.

It is actually 69,530 isos to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = 74,530 isos spent to champ a 2*.

When you sell one off you get 65k isos and don't forget the 17.5k isos you make while leveling from 94-144 = 82.5k isos plus the 5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 250hps + 125hps more when you sell it.

So in review if my math is correct it cost 74,530 to level/champ a 2* and you get back 82.5k which is a GAIN of almost 8k isos.

fight4thedream

fmftint wrote:

increasing 5* odds to 15% still does nothing to alleviate luck based progression. A unlucky player is just as likely to go 0-40 with 15% odds as they are 10%. A counter measure to prevent these slumps needs to be added

This. RNGesus is the devil! I am still holding out hope that they find better avenues for distributing 5* a la Civil War and new events, but at the very least a streakbreaker would be a welcomed improvement.

Anywhoo, just wanted to express my gratitude for the positive changes. Especially to Hi-Fi and Cthulhu who I know have been pushing for these kinds of improvements (and more). Looking forward to whats in store next!ﾞ☆⌒o(*^ｰﾟ)ｖ

mpqr7

Great!!! BRB selling my max-champed 2*s so I can champion them all over again! Championing 2*s is so much fun! I'm glad it's worth it now, from an ISO standpoint!

Vhailorx

Haven't read the whole thread.

I don't know if these changes will be enough to solve the various roster-building problems that people have identified and discussed at great length on the forums (e.g. rng and difficulty of 4* transition).

But this is definitely a player-friendly change; and shows a willingness from demiurge to move in the right direction. So thank you, and please can we have more changes along these lines in the near future (*cough* 4* cover rewards *cough*).

Pylgrim

revskip wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

revskip wrote:

Gotta love this forum. Devs address two major bugaboos which are constantly complained about ISO shortage and 5* pull rates. Rather than a thread where everyone is thankful for the fixes the majority of response are "Boo hoo, you should have told us sooner". And then people wonder why they don't post.

My sincere thanks to the devs for the extra iso, the better sell rates and the increased pull rates.

People can be supportive and appreciative of changes while being critical of the less than optimal way in which they are being communicated at the same time, and pointing out the latter does not invalidate the former, and in the long run helps out the devs and their self-admitted problems with communicating more than simply ignoring the bad because of the good. Being a slobbering sycophant is just as useless as being a negative nancy.

That said, both the increased 5* pull rates and the increased alliance rewards are really pleasant surprises, that are definitely appreciated. I can understand the frustration of people who just spent their hoard, though.

If the changes had been communicated a week earlier there would have been complaints from all the people who opened tokens the week prior. If the changes had been communicated a month earlier there would have been complaints from the folks who had opened tokens prior to that. This forum is by far the most negative space of any game I have ever played online. All forums have complainers, here it is endemic.

I also wouldn't classify myself as a slobbering sycophant. I've posted critical stuff on the forums when things were off. Constructive criticism is great and absolutely helps the developers if they choose to read it. The way the majority of the user base on this particular forum excoriates the devs at every turn leaves very little chance that they will actually be able to pick through and find the constructive stuff. This thread should have been a salute to the devs for actually listening to the userbase and addressing some of the major concerns that are recurring on the forum. Instead of being that it quickly turned into "But why didn't you tell us this sooner". If I were a dev I would never come to this forum.

I argue that the forums would have been better served by advanced notice. Let's say that they came out a couple weeks ago saying "we are planning improvements here, here and here. We don't have definite numbers but they are coming quite soon, stay tuned!" Imagine, if you can, every single thread and post complaining about Iso and 5* odds in the past two weeks would not have been made. Instead, the forums would be abuzz with hype and hope and speculation. instead, we got to gripe about these issues we had no idea that were being worked on for this two weeks and in addition, some people got to feel bad about the decisions they made since and which were proven ill-informed.

You cannot place the burden of positivity on the people. This is the entertainment industry. People invest money and time to have fun and feel satisfaction and pleasure in return. As an entertainer it's your responsibility -nay, the very basis of your livelihood!- to improve feelings of wellness and happiness and to diminish "feel-bad" moments. When you spent your developers and number-crunchers time and effort developing positive features such as this, it is YOUR loss if you don't cash in by hyping it. MPQ is not a charity where we should feel grateful and blessed whenever they, out of the goodness of their hearts, throw a few crumbs our way. They are a business and they are not maximising the efficiency of their fun-creating measures. If any, they should feel grateful that we're offering them feedback to do it better next time.

The changes are unarguably positive, I'm quite happy about them. The delivery could have been much better.

Smudge

Breadsticks wrote:

However, connecting ISO increases to people I have no control over is ridiculous.
The ISO I earn shouldn't depend on others playtime. It should depend on mine.

If you think about it, this still is mostly under your control. If you find an active alliance, you won't feel any negative impact. Besides that, if you have 18 active members who play daily, you still see a net gain of 1620 ISO daily, or 11,340 per week. 20 active members gets you 12,600 more ISO per week... with this change, it behooves you to find a full, active alliance.

If you aren't in an active alliance, you only have yourself to blame in the end. I understand that it may be fun to be in an alliance with friends from real life as just one example for why you might not be among more active players, but if you're serious about ISO gains and your buddies don't play every day, is it really going to hurt them (or you) to get into a more serious alliance? If you're in a public alliance with no standards, post in the alliance forum and find a better one. Just my two cents on that.

While I understand the complaints and grief of those who cashed in hoards with no notice, I will still express my thanks for the updates to ISO and 5* draw rates. I'm not really interested in moving into the 5* meta at this stage, but I'm glad to see that it is at least slightly improved for those who are. Fun to see WM hit the tokens too since I pulled two classics after hitting my TaT progression and drew his blue cover!

Thanks dev team!

Now can you please remove the PvP skip tax? Pretty pretty please?

Moon Roach

This is great, but I have one question: what have you done with the devs?

They have obviously been replaced with doppelgangers, someone go check for cocoons.

BlackSheep101

Phaentom wrote:

So in review if my math is correct it cost 74,530 to level/champ a 2* and you get back 82.5k which is a GAIN of almost 8k isos.

The cost of the covers spent on the character has to be included in your math.

Chipster22

Phaentom wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

I tried to do the math earlier in this post: https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38691#p475438

I came up with falling 49,274 ISO short on the sale of a 2* champion, but you would get 375 Hero Points and 5 Command Points as part of the championing rewards.

They have added 47,500 ISO to the sale price of 2*s. So they way I see it you can get 375 Hero Points and 5 Command Points for 1,774 ISO now if my math is right.

It is actually 69,530 isos to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = 74,530 isos spent to champ a 2*.

When you sell one off you get 65k isos and don't forget the 17.5k isos you make while leveling from 94-144 = 82.5k isos plus the 5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 250hps + 125hps more when you sell it.

So in review if my math is correct it cost 74,530 to level/champ a 2* and you get back 82.5k which is a GAIN of almost 8k isos.

There is a loss of 12,500 ISO that must be accounted for from the 50 covers that were used to go from level 94 to 144. They could have been sold for 250 ISO each instead.

DFiPL

Chipster22 wrote:

Phaentom wrote:

Chipster22 wrote:

I tried to do the math earlier in this post: https://d3go.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38691#p475438

I came up with falling 49,274 ISO short on the sale of a 2* champion, but you would get 375 Hero Points and 5 Command Points as part of the championing rewards.

They have added 47,500 ISO to the sale price of 2*s. So they way I see it you can get 375 Hero Points and 5 Command Points for 1,774 ISO now if my math is right.

It is actually 69,530 isos to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = 74,530 isos spent to champ a 2*.

When you sell one off you get 65k isos and don't forget the 17.5k isos you make while leveling from 94-144 = 82.5k isos plus the 5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 250hps + 125hps more when you sell it.

So in review if my math is correct it cost 74,530 to level/champ a 2* and you get back 82.5k which is a GAIN of almost 8k isos.

There is a loss of 12,500 ISO that must be accounted for from the 50 covers that were used to go from level 94 to 144. They could have been sold for 250 ISO each instead.

You're getting 17,500 ISO in rewards from a 2* champion. Hold my beer while I do the math...12,500+5,000...carry the one...

Yeah. You're not actually losing anything. You're clearing exactly as much ISO from champ'ing the 2* as you would have just selling off all those covers.

There's a slight negative ISO loss if you're spending 69,530 to level and getting 65,000 back from the sale. But along the way you're getting 5 command points, three 3* covers and 5 heroic tokens for that 4,350 ISO "spent." Maybe you have zero need for those 8 covers and sell them for, at minimum, 2750 ISO. You're down to a 1,600 ISO loss in exchange for 5 command points. Factor in the increase from 10 to 100 ISO daily for each alliance member playing, and what you're actually losing by riding the 2* champion carousel a second time amounts to about 30 seconds spent by everybody in the alliance doing the 1* DDQ fight on one single day, in exchange for 5 command points.

It'll be okay. I promise.

Crowl

Shame they didn't also do something like increase the sell value of covers on maxed champions, give people more iso for having maxed out characters without forcing them to sell off those hard-earned covers.

DTStump

Oh my goodness I love these changes, I'll gladly recycle my 2*s.

EDIT: Looks like even a cost of 8k iso was a little overestimated. In any case, it seems like a great deal for someone who's interested in getting more HP for roster slots.

Ungoliant

Man, I was saving up my command points hoarding up just for the Winter Soldier to enter the tokens, and I'm so glad I delayed.

These changes are great! Thank you, devs.

Lilith

I too would like to add my voice to the thanking. This is all great news, and the suggestion of possibly more to come is just as welcome.

Thank you to the Devs for taking this excellent first step, and thank you to Hi-Fi and Cthulhu for braving out the storms of negativity to continue communicating with us.

Cheers!

carrion_pigeons

How negative should I be, here?

I do really like the change to championing. I feel like that was a valuable and useful change that should have a worthwhile long-lasting effect on the game. The rest just kinda feel like stop-gap measures to get people to shut up complaining without actually addressing the root of the problems that get complained about. Stop-gap measures are better than no measures at all, though, so kudos for not doing nothing, I guess.

When endgame stops having completely randomized rewards and Iso rewards are tiered based on how advanced one's roster is, I'll start applauding. Until then, putting band-aids on endemic problems gives me a small degree of hope that someone is at least thinking about starting to try and fix the game, which will tide me over for a bit, I guess. But that doesn't mean I'm impressed with the design choices being made here.

homeinvasion

69,530 iso to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = -74,530 -74,530 iso
Sell max champ 65,000 iso + 17,500 iso champ rewards (82.5K) +7,970 iso
(5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 375 CP) other rewards
Implicit cost of 250 iso you could have earned to sell each one (12,500) -4,530 iso

Other rewards roughly as iso
5 heroic tokens = (minimum 2 star, 5 x 250 iso) -3,280 iso
3 X 3 star covers (3 x 500 iso) -1,780 iso
5 CP ~ 500 iso (based on 20Cp =minimum 4 star/ 4) -1,280 iso
375 HP

At the end of day its roughly 375 HP for 1,280 iso

knifedge

Devs, thank you very much for the positive changes to alliance ISO daily bonus, and to ISO sell rates! I greatly appreciate these changes.

Chrono_Tata

These are great change and overall I applaud the devs for it. However, I literally have just spent 1k of hoarded CP on legendary tokens the past week (in anticipation of rate dilution due to the new 5-stars coming), and obviously I'm feeling pretty rough about that.

As it has already been mentioned, the devs specifically said that 5-star rates will remain at 10% and new characters being added to the pool will have a dilution effect, and I think it was a reasonable assumption that this trend would continue for at least a few more characters, so I don't think I or others like me did something unreasonable or were trying to game the system.

While I understand that the changes have been in the work behind the scene and details are bound to change before the final release, a simple announcement with 1-2 week lead time like "hey guys, we have some great changes planned for legendary tokens soon, stay tuned" would have been nice. In fact, several members of the community have asked the devs specifically about their plans on legendary token updates but were met with silence.

So yeah, I'm really not going to complain about that because it is a great change that benefit the vast majority of players including me in the long run, but I implore the devs to think about the minority of players who are likely to be impacted by such a big but sudden change, especially when those affected players are likely to be long-time players/customers.

In the past, for all the devs' flaws, one thing they had done right was that big changes to the game were given significant lead times for players to prepare for, but it seems to not be the case for several recent changes which is disappointing. I hope they read this and keep it in mind for any future major changes.

OneLastGambit

The posts in this thread remind me of how my 5 year old complains and cries that I didn't give him an hours notice that we were taking him to watch a movie.

Honestly the notification issue is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. So you pulled your stash a little early? Youd only complain that the new odds clearly weren't working when you pulled 10 x 4* anyway so what's the difference?

It's unfortunate that it happened that way but somebody will always be inconvenienced by big changes. No amount of notice will change that.