Game Updates: 5-Star Rates & Iso

Lemminkäinen

homeinvasion wrote:

69,530 iso to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = -74,530 -74,530 iso
Sell max champ 65,000 iso + 17,500 iso champ rewards (82.5K) +7,970 iso
(5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 375 CP) other rewards
Implicit cost of 250 iso you could have earned to sell each one (12,500) -4,530 iso

Other rewards roughly as iso
5 heroic tokens = (minimum 2 star, 5 x 250 iso) -3,280 iso
3 X 3 star covers (3 x 500 iso) -1,780 iso
5 CP ~ 500 iso (based on 20Cp =minimum 4 star/ 4) -1,280 iso
375 HP

At the end of day its roughly 375 HP for 1,280 iso

Remember that you need those 13 covers for the 2* in order to be able to champion them in the first place. So it's actually 63 covers that you could've sold for 250 each.

Gmax101

I LOVE the ISO changes...

and I accept the 5* changes are a good thing towards mitigating the RNG issue.

My only concern is that it further invalidates anything other than a 5* strategy for PVP.

They will be more common and for the forumites who are often long term players with strong 4* rosters and are chasing 5* this is great, but for the more casual player who earns LT through progression in PVE it slows their 4* progression and increases the likelihood of pulling those 5* that kill scaling and invalidate the other characters in their roster.

However, 5* were already a thing and those issues were in the game... so a change that is making them more accessible is fundamentally a good thing.

Just not sure it builds a game I want to play...

Although the whole re-sell 2* to rechamp... now that is GREAT for me

smkspy

It's a step in the right direction, credit given where credit is due. Now if you could work rewards in the daily resupply itself and event rewards.

The lack of iso and not being able to level up characters at a reasonable rate without having to constantly grind everything really is taking the fun not of this game for me.

Thank though for the small iso increase though I wish you'd actually lower the 5 star odds in the classic LT.

Pylgrim

OneLastGambit wrote:

The posts in this thread remind me of how my 5 year old complains and cries that I didn't give him an hours notice that we were taking him to watch a movie.

Honestly the notification issue is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. So you pulled your stash a little early? Youd only complain that the new odds clearly weren't working when you pulled 10 x 4* anyway so what's the difference?

It's unfortunate that it happened that way but somebody will always be inconvenienced by big changes. No amount of notice will change that.

Would you not agree that advance notice would have helped diminish the negativity in the forums in the last few weeks quite a good deal?

Polares

Chrono_Tata wrote:

As it has already been mentioned, the devs specifically said that 5-star rates will remain at 10% and new characters being added to the pool will have a dilution effect, and I think it was a reasonable assumption that this trend would continue for at least a few more characters, so I don't think I or others like me did something unreasonable or were trying to game the system.

No they didn't, it was all assumptions. The only thing they said is that Spidey was going to be added to classic, and Phoenix and him removed from new. Nothing else. This is why there were so many threads asking for confirmation, it was all an assumption.

I also spend all my hoarded CPs (around 300), during CW because I was almost sure chances were going to remain at 10%. I would have been great to give a heads up to the 'loyal' customers that come to the forum every day to see the news and talk about the game BUT I guess that would have been a bit unfair in general (in fact, all the people that still has tokens and CP hoarded should have been forced to spend those before the change so everybody starts with the same amount of tokens/CPs).


The important thing is that from now on the chances are 15%. So I am very happy, but I am also very worried, a lot of doubts come to my mind. Has the game started the transition to 5 star game where anything else will be totally irrelevant? Have we moved from the Irrelevant 10 to the Irrelevant 31? Are CPs and tokens now the only thing important? Is it going to be possible now to transition from 2 to 5 straight away? Probably the answer to all is "not yet" but we are getting closer...

OneLastGambit

Pylgrim wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

The posts in this thread remind me of how my 5 year old complains and cries that I didn't give him an hours notice that we were taking him to watch a movie.

Honestly the notification issue is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. So you pulled your stash a little early? Youd only complain that the new odds clearly weren't working when you pulled 10 x 4* anyway so what's the difference?

It's unfortunate that it happened that way but somebody will always be inconvenienced by big changes. No amount of notice will change that.

Would you not agree that advance notice would have helped diminish the negativity in the forums in the last few weeks quite a good deal?

Honestly I think if viewed pragmatically the answer would be no.

There are many on the forum who look for reasons to complain, granted its easy to pick some with this game but it's equally easy to be positive.

Would the negativity have gone? No.

Would There be a noticable effect on the reduction of complaints about the odds issue? Possibly.

I've been visiting this forum for almost a year and I've always seen complainers (usually the same ones as well) and I don't believe they Would be satisfied by anything. Those people will always find something to complain about, so much so that they are now complaining about a change which is positive.

And what notice should they have given? A week? What about the guys who opened 8 days ago?
A month? What about the guys who opened their stashes 32 days ago?

As I said there is no timescale that would have helped everybody.

My personal opinion is to view it as it is - a positive change. And nothing more.

Chrono_Tata

OneLastGambit wrote:

The posts in this thread remind me of how my 5 year old complains and cries that I didn't give him an hours notice that we were taking him to watch a movie.

Honestly the notification issue is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. So you pulled your stash a little early? Youd only complain that the new odds clearly weren't working when you pulled 10 x 4* anyway so what's the difference?

It's unfortunate that it happened that way but somebody will always be inconvenienced by big changes. No amount of notice will change that.

Except, it would? Most people pulled their stash after the second Civil War run anticipating the addition of Cap and Iron Man, and a couple of weeks notice would have prevented that. Just because you were not affected by a particular problem doesn't mean you have to belittle other people who have a legitimate complaint.

For the record, I never complain about bad pulls with the devs, so no I'm not going whine if my pull rates are not as good as the average, but the fact of the matter is the rates were changed, and a lot of people feel like they could have been informed better. Whether it would have resulted in different pull results or not is irrelevant.

DTStump

People did take a gamble based on speculation.

Pylgrim

OneLastGambit wrote:

Pylgrim wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

The posts in this thread remind me of how my 5 year old complains and cries that I didn't give him an hours notice that we were taking him to watch a movie.

Honestly the notification issue is nowhere near as bad as people are making out. So you pulled your stash a little early? Youd only complain that the new odds clearly weren't working when you pulled 10 x 4* anyway so what's the difference?

It's unfortunate that it happened that way but somebody will always be inconvenienced by big changes. No amount of notice will change that.

Would you not agree that advance notice would have helped diminish the negativity in the forums in the last few weeks quite a good deal?

Honestly I think if viewed pragmatically the answer would be no.

There are many on the forum who look for reasons to complain, granted its easy to pick some with this game but it's equally easy to be positive.

Would the negativity have gone? No.

Would There be a noticable effect on the reduction of complaints about the odds issue? Possibly.

I've been visiting this forum for almost a year and I've always seen complainers (usually the same ones as well) and I don't believe they Would be satisfied by anything. Those people will always find something to complain about, so much so that they are now complaining about a change which is positive.

And what notice should they have given? A week? What about the guys who opened 8 days ago?
A month? What about the guys who opened their stashes 32 days ago?

As I said there is no timescale that would have helped everybody.

My personal opinion is to view it as it is - a positive change. And nothing more.

Yeah, yeah *waves* complainers will complain, that's no mystery so shouldn't be even factored in any equation. It's like adding 0 at either side of the equal sign. But what about all the other people? Normal players who like the game and have been adversely affected by the issues this patch solves to different degrees for quite a long time and were driven to complain and feel bad? And don't make it all about being able to know in advance that you should stash LTs. That's another topic. I'm talking about going day by day, week by week, month by month without hearing a single peep that measures are being planned in order to combat the iso scarcity, low odds of 5*s and a sense of stagnation? For all we knew /yesterday/, relief for these issues wasn't something that we could expect any time in the short term future, let alone a week or a month ago. Wouldn't our lives have been better if we had something to look forward to? Wouldn't the sense of despair and abandonment from the devs that has made some players quit in the last few weeks been alleviated?

It is a very positive change but there's room for improvement. If we are afraid to give feedback to improve positive changes, they will always be tinted by a mediocre or thoughtless delivery.

Jabrony_Geoff

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Here’s some helpful info from the developers that we hope you will enjoy:

Increased the Amount of Iso-8 Received from the Daily Alliance Bonus

We increased the amount of Iso-8 you receive for each member of your Alliance that played that day to 100 Iso-8 (up from 10 Iso-8). The maximum amount of Iso-8 you can gain this way per day will be 2,000 Iso-8 (up from 200 Iso-8).”

Thanks for playing. We hope you find the changes beneficial!

.erm...could someone kindly explain this to me.
What daily alliance bonus?
Im not aware of a daily bonus from the alliance?
When is this applied ?

Nick441234

jgomes32 wrote:

I'm also a bit confused by the selling champions part. When is a good thing to do that? Should i sell all now and save half the iso to level again? It takes some time to get 13 covers. Maybe wait for 13 covers in queue before selling? I don't know what's the optimal approach to this.

Thats what I dont like about it. I dont want to have to earn 13 covers again as the 2*'s are great for DDQ. Now, if the game just reset the characters to level 94 and you kept all your covers, then I'd be all for that. It takes time to gain 13 covers, even for 2*s.

DTStump

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Here’s some helpful info from the developers that we hope you will enjoy:

Increased the Amount of Iso-8 Received from the Daily Alliance Bonus

We increased the amount of Iso-8 you receive for each member of your Alliance that played that day to 100 Iso-8 (up from 10 Iso-8). The maximum amount of Iso-8 you can gain this way per day will be 2,000 Iso-8 (up from 200 Iso-8).”

Thanks for playing. We hope you find the changes beneficial!

.erm...could someone kindly explain this to me.
What daily alliance bonus?
Im not aware of a daily bonus from the alliance?
When is this applied ?

Every day, when you get your SHIELD resupply award, you would also get +10 iso for every member of the alliance who played in the last 24h. Now you get +100 iso for every active alliance member.

Jabrony_Geoff

DTStump wrote:

Jabrony Geoff wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]Hi everyone,

Here’s some helpful info from the developers that we hope you will enjoy:

Increased the Amount of Iso-8 Received from the Daily Alliance Bonus

We increased the amount of Iso-8 you receive for each member of your Alliance that played that day to 100 Iso-8 (up from 10 Iso-8). The maximum amount of Iso-8 you can gain this way per day will be 2,000 Iso-8 (up from 200 Iso-8).”

Thanks for playing. We hope you find the changes beneficial!

.erm...could someone kindly explain this to me.
What daily alliance bonus?
Im not aware of a daily bonus from the alliance?
When is this applied ?

Every day, when you get your SHIELD resupply award, you would also get +10 iso for every member of the alliance who played in the last 24h. Now you get +100 iso for every active alliance member.

Thanks for the info DTstump ...Wow, the bonus was so low I didn't even notice.
The increase is positive indeed.

archmag

homeinvasion wrote:

69,530 iso to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = -74,530 -74,530 iso
Sell max champ 65,000 iso + 17,500 iso champ rewards (82.5K) +7,970 iso
(5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 375 CP) other rewards
Implicit cost of 250 iso you could have earned to sell each one (12,500) -4,530 iso

Other rewards roughly as iso
5 heroic tokens = (minimum 2 star, 5 x 250 iso) -3,280 iso
3 X 3 star covers (3 x 500 iso) -1,780 iso
5 CP ~ 500 iso (based on 20Cp =minimum 4 star/ 4) -1,280 iso
375 HP

At the end of day its roughly 375 HP for 1,280 iso

And 63 covers instead of 50 for maxed champ, so 15750 instead of 12500 cost.

So spending 15750+69530+5000=90280 Iso.
Getting 65000+17500=82500 Iso.

Result is 7780 for 375 HP, 5 CP, 5 Heroic Tokens and 3 3* Covers. Looks pretty great especially because there is something to do with these 2* characters again.

I don't understand complaints about a lack of advance notification. If there was advance notification other people who spent their CP before that notification happened would have complained and you would have to wait till actual release. I prefer just a surprise approach instead of the same surprise (when you get notification)+waiting. Would it have been different if today instead of a patch we got a notification that this thing will happen in two weeks?

Felonius

The increased 5* draw rates are a good thing for those in 4-5* land. It's probably a bad thing for those in 3*-or-less land. Those 5* on low rosters only cause scaling grief (When is that gonna get fixed, anyway?).

The increased Daily Alliance Bonus of ISO is an AWESOME thing (Thanks!) and quite simply the single best part of the update. Nothing but upside here. Well done, Devs!

The increased sell-back value of maxed champions... It's a too-confusing mixed bag. I'll quote what I think are the best math posts here:

archmag wrote:

homeinvasion wrote:

69,530 iso to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = -74,530 -74,530 iso
Sell max champ 65,000 iso + 17,500 iso champ rewards (82.5K) +7,970 iso
(5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 375 CP) other rewards
Implicit cost of 250 iso you could have earned to sell each one (12,500) -4,530 iso

Other rewards roughly as iso
5 heroic tokens = (minimum 2 star, 5 x 250 iso) -3,280 iso
3 X 3 star covers (3 x 500 iso) -1,780 iso
5 CP ~ 500 iso (based on 20Cp =minimum 4 star/ 4) -1,280 iso
375 HP

At the end of day its roughly 375 HP for 1,280 iso

You forgot about 125HP when you sell a maxed 2* champ.
And 63 covers instead of 50 for maxed champ, so 15750 instead of 12500 cost.

So spending 15750+69530+5000=90280 Iso.
Getting 65000+17500=82500 Iso.

Result is 7780 for 500 HP, 5 CP, 5 Heroic Tokens and 3 3* Covers. Looks pretty great especially because there is something to do with these 2* characters again...

So, if you sell a 2*, you're at a net ISO loss of ~8k ISO.

This is an good update if you view certain (2*) maxed champions as useless and planned to clear a roster slot and drop them anyway. In that case, you win!

However, using this feature to repeatedly "grow" and sell toons to farm covers, HP, and CP at the expense of ISO is, in my opinion, bad. Getting more covers, HP, and CP is only going to get you into higher tiers faster, and doing so with an overall net ISO loss is foolish.

I'm someone trying to get into useful 4* land. I've got 12 fully covered 4*, requiring something like ~4.3M ISO to level-up and champion (and that doesn't include my other under-covered 4* or fledgling 5*). I still earn only 10-20k ISO a day.

Ultimately, the bottleneck for improvement is ISO, NOT covers, CP, or HP.

Beyond any initial sell-off of existing maxed champs, this feature does NOTHING to help remedy that bottleneck, and if anything is misleading enough that it could harm players in the long run.

archmag

Felonius wrote:

So, if you sell a 2*, you're at a net ISO loss of ~8k ISO.

This is an good update if you view certain (2*) maxed champions as useless and planned to clear a roster slot and drop them anyway. In that case, you win!

However, using this feature to repeatedly "grow" and sell toons to farm covers, HP, and CP at the expense of ISO is, in my opinion, bad. Getting more covers, HP, and CP is only going to get you into higher tiers faster, and doing so with an overall net ISO loss is foolish.

It's not bad, in my opinion. Getting more covers means you can cover important characters faster, you don't need full 4* roster. Also pouring Iso into 2* and then selling it with about 10% tax allows you to get Iso in bulk instead of temporarily increasing it. Then releveling 2* when their covers come back is easier than investing 300k+ into 4*. Extra HP means extra chances at 5* characters due to 100 hp tokens in vaults.

Ultimately, the bottleneck for improvement is ISO, NOT covers, CP, or HP.

Beyond any initial sell-off of existing maxed champs, this feature does NOTHING to help remedy that bottleneck, and if anything is misleading enough that it could harm players in the long run.

Yeah, it does not help with Iso shortage, even makes it a little worse, but it makes it more enjoyable to progress, in my opinion. I would not mind recreating my 2* characters so that I can progress in them again. Sold 5 already, planning to sell 5 more when I get at least 1 of their covers. Will make three clones of characters that I use for ddq. Champed two 3* that were waiting in a queue and have some leftovers Iso. Sure I will need to invest in them later to level them from 15 to 94 again, but it will be easier to gather compared to 3* requirement so won't fill as stagnant.

You forgot about 125HP when you sell a maxed 2* champ.

My mistake, it's included in 375 it seems. I calculated it twice.

Actual result is 7780 ISO for 375 HP, 5 CP, 5 Heroic Tokens and 3 3* Covers.

Laidbktonowhere

So does this mean I should sell my jean grey 5*?! From what it seems like if they are pulling her from the game to replace a new one then why keep the cover??

Dalbok

Felonius wrote:

Ultimately, the bottleneck for improvement is ISO, NOT covers, CP, or HP.

Beyond any initial sell-off of existing maxed champs, this feature does NOTHING to help remedy that bottleneck, and if anything is misleading enough that it could harm players in the long run.

I'd prefer to see a sell back rate of new covers of a fully champed char to be worth 2x or 3x the ISO.

So if you had level 144 champed 2* and received an extra cover for that same 2*, you could sell the cover for 2x (500 ISO) [or even 3x (750 ISO) if they were feeling more generous].

From their perspective it could boostcould demand for roster spots to keep around more 2*s. It also wouldn't affect ISO gain for the lower level players.

But, I still appreciate the changes they made. Of course the boost in 5* pulls likely means I'll just skip 4* and go straight from 3* to 5* game overtime.

Der_Lex

revskip wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

revskip wrote:

Gotta love this forum. Devs address two major bugaboos which are constantly complained about ISO shortage and 5* pull rates. Rather than a thread where everyone is thankful for the fixes the majority of response are "Boo hoo, you should have told us sooner". And then people wonder why they don't post.

My sincere thanks to the devs for the extra iso, the better sell rates and the increased pull rates.

People can be supportive and appreciative of changes while being critical of the less than optimal way in which they are being communicated at the same time, and pointing out the latter does not invalidate the former, and in the long run helps out the devs and their self-admitted problems with communicating more than simply ignoring the bad because of the good. Being a slobbering sycophant is just as useless as being a negative nancy.

That said, both the increased 5* pull rates and the increased alliance rewards are really pleasant surprises, that are definitely appreciated. I can understand the frustration of people who just spent their hoard, though.

If the changes had been communicated a week earlier there would have been complaints from all the people who opened tokens the week prior. If the changes had been communicated a month earlier there would have been complaints from the folks who had opened tokens prior to that. This forum is by far the most negative space of any game I have ever played online. All forums have complainers, here it is endemic.

I also wouldn't classify myself as a slobbering sycophant. I've posted critical stuff on the forums when things were off. Constructive criticism is great and absolutely helps the developers if they choose to read it. The way the majority of the user base on this particular forum excoriates the devs at every turn leaves very little chance that they will actually be able to pick through and find the constructive stuff. This thread should have been a salute to the devs for actually listening to the userbase and addressing some of the major concerns that are recurring on the forum. Instead of being that it quickly turned into "But why didn't you tell us this sooner". If I were a dev I would never come to this forum.

I just wanted to say for a moment that 'slobbering sycophant' and 'negative nancy' were meant as generalizations, not as a specific attack on you or any other poster (that and I'm an alliteration aficionado). If anything, I'm glad you're enjoying the game and think the devs are doing a good job. But I think that you should realize that, as someone who, as you mentioned in another thread, is in 3* land, you're not yet part of the group of players that bump into the more frustrating aspects of the game. The end game of MPQ needs a lot of work still, and although these changes are definitely positive, you should not be surprised that for a lot of veteran players it feels like a lot more is needed to make the game fun again.

I'm not going to disagree with you that this community is pretty negative (although it is far, far from the most negative place I've encountered so far. I think Games Workshop takes that prize, their official forums became such a cesspool that they had to shut them down entirely), but I also think it has several good reasons to be, and poor communication is definitely one of those reasons. And although the devs have no reason to be here or to make the developer videos that used to be released on a monthly basis (and are sorely missed), for the community managers it's part of their job description to be on here and engage the user base. Not that I blame David and Chthulhu (especially the seemingly genuine enthusiasm of the latter is very much appreciated, even), because it very often seems like their hands are tied because of either a lack of communication from the devs to them, or other directives from higher up the food chain.

But in this case, it's pretty baffling why changes that you know are going to be well received by the majority of the players are communicated at the eleventh hour. Will there always be complainers? Sure. But by waiting until the last minute, they've done a disservice to a lot of players who understandably spent their hoards before the chances of pulling those OML's or Phoenixes became even lower (or so they thought). There's even been a thread open for weeks asking for official clarification on the 5* token changes. And although I agree that there will always be people who complain about everything, if this announcement had been made a week earlier, this thread would have been a lot more like the thread of universal praise that you would have liked to have seen.

Yoik

We have increased the sell-back price of Max Champion level characters to better reflect the investment that has been made into that character. You can now start Championing your characters (and earning all the rewards!) all over again without having to spend the whole amount of Iso-8 required to fully level a character.
Lv 144 2-Star: 65,000 Iso-8 (Up from 17,500 Iso-8)
Lv 266 3-Star: 105,000 Iso-8 (Up from 45,000 Iso-8)
Lv 370 4-Star: 320,000 Iso-8 (Up from 90,000 Iso-8)
Lv 550 5-Star: 500,000 Iso-8 (Up from 180,000 Iso-8)

???????????

I think I’m reading this wrong. Does that mean if I sell all my maxed 2 stars that are champed. Ill get 65k and then I can re roster them and they will already be at level 94? Giving me another avenue to collect their covers and rewards up to 144 again where I can then re-sell

OR

You get 65k for selling one which is almost enough to use to re level another one from scratch to 94?

I know which scenario I prefer.

Anyone?