Game Updates: 5-Star Rates & Iso

smkspy

I was wondering that too. What exactly is cheaper about it? And how does it work? Do I need to have a fully 2 star replacement ready to go or can I build one or is one simply given to me?

archmag

Yoik wrote:

We have increased the sell-back price of Max Champion level characters to better reflect the investment that has been made into that character. You can now start Championing your characters (and earning all the rewards!) all over again without having to spend the whole amount of Iso-8 required to fully level a character.
Lv 144 2-Star: 65,000 Iso-8 (Up from 17,500 Iso-8)
Lv 266 3-Star: 105,000 Iso-8 (Up from 45,000 Iso-8)
Lv 370 4-Star: 320,000 Iso-8 (Up from 90,000 Iso-8)
Lv 550 5-Star: 500,000 Iso-8 (Up from 180,000 Iso-8)

???????????

I think I’m reading this wrong. Does that mean if I sell all my maxed 2 stars that are champed. Ill get 65k and then I can re roster them and they will already be at level 94? Giving me another avenue to collect their covers and rewards up to 144 again where I can then re-sell

OR

You get 65k for selling one which is almost enough to use to re level another one from scratch to 94?

I know which scenario I prefer.

Anyone?

You are overthinking it. They just increased the price that you can sell them for, nothing else. You sell him for 65k so you have almost enough Iso to champion another one if you already have covers. If you don't have covers you are free to spend that Iso however you want.

smkspy wrote:

I was wondering that too. What exactly is cheaper about it? And how does it work? Do I need to have a fully 2 star replacement ready to go or can I build one or is one simply given to me?

You don't need to have a replacement, but I suggest that you get at least a single cover before selling so that you can still have that character in pve when he is required.

smkspy

That's what I figured but it is very poorly communicated. Their last sentence should just been left out entirely.

mr_X

Yep. Total buzz killed by radio silence. Opened 300cp day before changes. Made every effort to find out first by visiting this forum daily to find out when the odds where changing.

Chipster22

Lemminkäinen wrote:

homeinvasion wrote:

69,530 iso to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = -74,530 -74,530 iso
Sell max champ 65,000 iso + 17,500 iso champ rewards (82.5K) +7,970 iso
(5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 375 CP) other rewards
Implicit cost of 250 iso you could have earned to sell each one (12,500) -4,530 iso

Other rewards roughly as iso
5 heroic tokens = (minimum 2 star, 5 x 250 iso) -3,280 iso
3 X 3 star covers (3 x 500 iso) -1,780 iso
5 CP ~ 500 iso (based on 20Cp =minimum 4 star/ 4) -1,280 iso
375 HP

At the end of day its roughly 375 HP for 1,280 iso

Remember that you need those 13 covers for the 2* in order to be able to champion them in the first place. So it's actually 63 covers that you could've sold for 250 each.

Good catch. I never thought about the original 13 covers.

The 13 covers could have netted 3,250 ISO.

So the cost to rechampion would be about 1280 + 3250 = 4530 ISO.

smoq84

Laidbktonowhere wrote:

So does this mean I should sell my jean grey 5*?! From what it seems like if they are pulling her from the game to replace a new one then why keep the cover??

They are not pulling her from the game but from Latest Legendary Tokens.
She is still available in Classic LT the same like SS, OML and now BSS.

Yoik

Ok so ill still need 13 covers pending in order to re champ the toon again. I think its a positive move they have made and I welcome it. Now I need to see if its worth selling the 7 champed 2 stars I have then. 450 odd k iso. that's got to be at least one of my partially leveled 4 stars taken to full right? adding my 120k I was trying to save for rhulk.

then just keep a slot free for the 2 star for events. I was collecting them all but this has changed my mind I think

Quebbster

I am very tempted to start a Bagman farm with the new resale price, since he gives you a Legendary token at level 144.

DTStump

Yoik wrote:

Ok so ill still need 13 covers pending in order to re champ the toon again. I think its a positive move they have made and I welcome it. Now I need to see if its worth selling the 7 champed 2 stars I have then. 450 odd k iso. that's got to be at least one of my partially leveled 4 stars taken to full right? adding my 120k I was trying to save for rhulk.

then just keep a slot free for the 2 star for events. I was collecting them all but this has changed my mind I think

Well, you still need a few for the DDQ.

In my case I think I will try a rotation - around 5 2 stars rostered, and when they reach 144 I sell them and restart. This should help with my HP needs, since the biggest thing limiting my 3 to 4 star transition right now is that I cannot open my LTs due to a lack of roster slots.

Peoples14

Can somebody explain how the part about 2* charecters work ?

All my 2* charecters are maxed out champions.. but when i get them again i can only sell them for 250 iso..

I dont really get the part about it..

Thanks for helping in advance

Quebbster

Peoples14 wrote:

Can somebody explain how the part about 2* charecters work ?

All my 2* charecters are maxed out champions.. but when i get them again i can only sell them for 250 iso..

I dont really get the part about it..

Thanks for helping in advance

The sale price for a level 144 two-star has increased from 17,500 ISO to 65,000 ISO (or something like that, don't recall the exact numbers).
So you get more ISO for Selling fully leveled champions.

Malcrof

the Daily Iso change alone is enough for me.. that's 2k a day, for a year+.. Over 700k iso a year, 9+ Mother Lodes, basically $1k in iso for FREE.. how in the heck can anyone complain about this???

CyberVenom2001

The only issue I have (besides the forum not being told a few days in advance that an announcement was coming, so hold your tokens) is that as a collector player, I fought really hard to get all characters and still fight very hard to Max Champion them. All my 2* are finished (except Bagman) and that is something I'm super proud. Sure, I need that iso (and I applaud developers for that change, very great!), but I feel lIke I'm being asked to give away something I've earned. Just to grind again. Rinse. Repeat.

On a personal level, I'm going to keep my 2*s Maxed and not sell. I usually make 12,000-14,000 iso a day. I'll plug away with that. Or maybe I'll spend 1000hp on a throwaway slot on a random 2* to farm. We'll see.

Either way, mostly awesome changes. Great job!

JangoLore

I am happy about this change. Hooray for more ISO!

Gmax101

I don't think anyone is complaining about the ISO elements of this change...

they are simply GREAT.

There are no downsides....

There are 2 things I can see people complaining about:

1) The Devs were repeatedly asked about changes in 5* draw rates after the second run of CW and they said nothing. As a result, the understanding by the general population was that odds were about to get worse for the 5* they were chasing.... so they dumped their CP in order to maximise the chances of the 5* they had. Only for the % draw rates to actively increase without warning.

- While I sympathise on the grounds that Devs were asked and said nothing, fundamentally, the line had to be drawn somewhere.

2) The fact that there will now be more 5* in circulation, further emphasising the gap between the lucky and the unlucky (although the Unlucky will be a slightly smaller subset of players) and also further invalidating an entire tier of characters. It is relatively easy for even 2* players to pick up CP via PVE and pulling and 3* can certainly do it... so why bother levelling the 4*.... just grind the CP, open the legendary tokens and hope to land the 5* that allows you to keep competing...

- This is my biggest worry. I have almost all 3* championed but no 4* over level 174 at the moment. My one yellow OML cover has caused me issues in the Shield Simulator in PVP this season, instead of max 3star opponents with the odd 4* I am seeing lots of high level stuff... fortunately in my preferred PVE my boosted characters are generally higher level. If I start rostering the 5* then my 4* and 3* will become irrelevant.

But in general this update is all give and no take... so am hopeful other such gems are on their way

Pylgrim

Malcrof wrote:

the Daily Iso change alone is enough for me.. that's 2k a day, for a year+.. Over 700k iso a year, 9+ Mother Lodes, basically $1k in iso for FREE.. how in the heck can anyone complain about this???

Thankfully, not a single person has complained about this Iso increment! It is a great change, indeed.

PeterGibbons316

Der_Lex wrote:

revskip wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

revskip wrote:

Gotta love this forum. Devs address two major bugaboos which are constantly complained about ISO shortage and 5* pull rates. Rather than a thread where everyone is thankful for the fixes the majority of response are "Boo hoo, you should have told us sooner". And then people wonder why they don't post.

My sincere thanks to the devs for the extra iso, the better sell rates and the increased pull rates.

People can be supportive and appreciative of changes while being critical of the less than optimal way in which they are being communicated at the same time, and pointing out the latter does not invalidate the former, and in the long run helps out the devs and their self-admitted problems with communicating more than simply ignoring the bad because of the good. Being a slobbering sycophant is just as useless as being a negative nancy.

That said, both the increased 5* pull rates and the increased alliance rewards are really pleasant surprises, that are definitely appreciated. I can understand the frustration of people who just spent their hoard, though.

If the changes had been communicated a week earlier there would have been complaints from all the people who opened tokens the week prior. If the changes had been communicated a month earlier there would have been complaints from the folks who had opened tokens prior to that. This forum is by far the most negative space of any game I have ever played online. All forums have complainers, here it is endemic.

I also wouldn't classify myself as a slobbering sycophant. I've posted critical stuff on the forums when things were off. Constructive criticism is great and absolutely helps the developers if they choose to read it. The way the majority of the user base on this particular forum excoriates the devs at every turn leaves very little chance that they will actually be able to pick through and find the constructive stuff. This thread should have been a salute to the devs for actually listening to the userbase and addressing some of the major concerns that are recurring on the forum. Instead of being that it quickly turned into "But why didn't you tell us this sooner". If I were a dev I would never come to this forum.

I just wanted to say for a moment that 'slobbering sycophant' and 'negative nancy' were meant as generalizations, not as a specific attack on you or any other poster (that and I'm an alliteration aficionado). If anything, I'm glad you're enjoying the game and think the devs are doing a good job. But I think that you should realize that, as someone who, as you mentioned in another thread, is in 3* land, you're not yet part of the group of players that bump into the more frustrating aspects of the game. The end game of MPQ needs a lot of work still, and although these changes are definitely positive, you should not be surprised that for a lot of veteran players it feels like a lot more is needed to make the game fun again.

I'm not going to disagree with you that this community is pretty negative (although it is far, far from the most negative place I've encountered so far. I think Games Workshop takes that prize, their official forums became such a cesspool that they had to shut them down entirely), but I also think it has several good reasons to be, and poor communication is definitely one of those reasons. And although the devs have no reason to be here or to make the developer videos that used to be released on a monthly basis (and are sorely missed), for the community managers it's part of their job description to be on here and engage the user base. Not that I blame David and Chthulhu (especially the seemingly genuine enthusiasm of the latter is very much appreciated, even), because it very often seems like their hands are tied because of either a lack of communication from the devs to them, or other directives from higher up the food chain.

But in this case, it's pretty baffling why changes that you know are going to be well received by the majority of the players are communicated at the eleventh hour. Will there always be complainers? Sure. But by waiting until the last minute, they've done a disservice to a lot of players who understandably spent their hoards before the chances of pulling those OML's or Phoenixes became even lower (or so they thought). There's even been a thread open for weeks asking for official clarification on the 5* token changes. And although I agree that there will always be people who complain about everything, if this announcement had been made a week earlier, this thread would have been a lot more like the thread of universal praise that you would have liked to have seen.

I'm pretty upset by this, and am NOT the type of person that complains about everything.....

original content
devs aren't deceiving us with cheating AI
ongoing support for DDQ4

I've been very supportive of this game, both financially, and here on the forums. And I feel I have every right to be upset when they intentionally allow me to believe that draw rates are decreasing to get me to spend before changing them. Especially when we first started asking for clarification over a month ago.

GrumpySmurf1002

homeinvasion wrote:

69,530 iso to go from 1-94 + 5k champ fee = -74,530 -74,530 iso
Sell max champ 65,000 iso + 17,500 iso champ rewards (82.5K) +7,970 iso
(5 heroic tokens, 5 cps, 3 - 3* covers and 375 CP) other rewards
Implicit cost of 250 iso you could have earned to sell each one (12,500) -4,530 iso

Other rewards roughly as iso
5 heroic tokens = (minimum 2 star, 5 x 250 iso) -3,280 iso
3 X 3 star covers (3 x 500 iso) -1,780 iso
5 CP ~ 500 iso (based on 20Cp =minimum 4 star/ 4) -1,280 iso
375 HP

At the end of day its roughly 375 HP for 1,280 iso

Beyond the other corrections, the sale price on a 144 2* is 65000iso/125HP, so it's 500HP (unless you already accounted for that, in which case nothing to see here)

MPQ_Daywalker

I think these changes are all extremely positive. More daily ISO? Better odds for 5*s? A way to farm 2* champions for 3* covers and HP for under 8000 ISO? All great stuff.

To those disappointed by the lack of advance notice about the change, I understand your frustration if you just blew through tokens and CP. But in my view, what Demiurge has done fits in with how they've always operated this game. They've never encouraged anyone to hoard tokens. The last major game-changing feature release was championing, and they didn't give us reasonable advance notice for that one either. At the time, everyone was speculating because we knew something was coming, and people looking at the code thought it had something to do with this "champion" stuff they're seeing in there, so people started hanging on to tokens and covers, just in case. But at no time did Demiurge make an announcement in advance saying what was coming -- in fact, they removed any posts speculating about championing from the forums. We found out about championing about a day before it launched, if I remember correctly, and even then I think it launched a little later than they originally planned so the announcement was slightly premature from their standpoint.

I think they don't want to encourage token or CP hoarding in anticipation of future changes simply because they don't want to give a subset of their player base (the forumites) additional notice that the rest of the the player base would not have. They want to limit the number of 5*s that people have, so why would they encourage just some players to hoard tokens/CP for better odds on those 5*s?

Many are upset at Demiurge/D3 for not answering their questions about the odds changing for the last month or so. Perhaps instead the community should learn a different lesson here. If Demiurge isn't saying anything on a particular feature, it doesn't mean that they aren't working on it or that it won't be coming. So if we make assumptions based on them not saying anything (and then open tokens/spend CP based on those assumptions), they're just that -- assumptions. Demiurge didn't lie and say nothing is changing, they just didn't answer because they didn't want to give anyone an advantage.

PeterGibbons316

_Daywalker_ wrote:

I think these changes are all extremely positive. More daily ISO? Better odds for 5*s? A way to farm 2* champions for 3* covers and HP for under 8000 ISO? All great stuff.

To those disappointed by the lack of advance notice about the change, I understand your frustration if you just blew through tokens and CP. But in my view, what Demiurge has done fits in with how they've always operated this game. They've never encouraged anyone to hoard tokens. The last major game-changing feature release was championing, and they didn't give us reasonable advance notice for that one either. At the time, everyone was speculating because we knew something was coming, and people looking at the code thought it had something to do with this "champion" stuff they're seeing in there, so people started hanging on to tokens and covers, just in case. But at no time did Demiurge make an announcement in advance saying what was coming -- in fact, they removed any posts speculating about championing from the forums. We found out about championing about a day before it launched, if I remember correctly, and even then I think it launched a little later than they originally planned so the announcement was slightly premature from their standpoint.

I don't believe you remember correctly. I was hoarding tokens and ISO for nearly a full season in anticipation of champions IIRC.

_Daywalker_ wrote:

I think they don't want to encourage token or CP hoarding in anticipation of future changes simply because they don't want to give a subset of their player base (the forumites) additional notice that the rest of the the player base would not have. They want to limit the number of 5*s that people have, so why would they encourage just some players to hoard tokens/CP for better odds on those 5*s?

****. They announced the change with a pop-up graphic in game, there would have been nothing preventing them from adding a note during CW1 telling of coming changes. I believe they have made announcements of things to come in this manner in the past as well.

_Daywalker_ wrote:

Many are upset at Demiurge/D3 for not answering their questions about the odds changing for the last month or so. Perhaps instead the community should learn a different lesson here. If Demiurge isn't saying anything on a particular feature, it doesn't mean that they aren't working on it or that it won't be coming. So if we make assumptions based on them not saying anything (and then open tokens/spend CP based on those assumptions), they're just that -- assumptions. Demiurge didn't lie and say nothing is changing, they just didn't answer because they didn't want to give anyone an advantage.

We didn't make assumptions based on them not saying anything. We made assumptions based on them saying that the 5* draw rate would stay at 10% when the 3rd and future 5*s were added.