*** Iron Man (Model 40) ***

Buret0

dathremar wrote:

With Simulator rolling in today with 3* Ironman's yellow as the progression reward, I was wondering if leaving his yellow at 2 covers still a good build. He's currently sitting at 4/5/2 in my roster.

He's the one build that I would actually have two of in my roster. The green AP generation is team dependent, so I would prefer to bring in the two cover version if I'm not relying on green AP generation.

Two yellow covers makes him so much faster. And turning 8 yellow AP into ~9 Red and 9 Blue AP (surviving CD tiles) makes a lot of 2* teams great. As a 2 to 3* transitioner, I still get a lot of use out of 2* Mag and Storm with IM40. Purple generates 5 match blue combos and red tile explosions to make 5 red cover magneto bombs with. Blue launches Storms damage and stun combos. On that team, yellow is useless, so dropping IM40 recharge in there makes Red Mag and Blue Storm bombs that clear PvE like crazy.

I wouldn't take that team into PvP, because the useless AI is going to match your own recharge CD tiles, Purple mag is going to create random blue and red tiles instead of match five+ crit tiles, and will often waste blue AP on Iron Hammer. This is a solid PvE choice and I often rotate IM40, Hood, Bullseye, and Hawkeye through as the final character in that party. Especially for the final DDQ node where this party almost never takes a point of damage because I can stun or kill every enemy and then Lightning Storm, Magnetic Flux, and Polarity Shift to instantly restore all of my AP. Hood or IM40 make the AP regen faster and Bullseye's Black Crit Tiles or Hawkeye's speed shot downs enemies quicker. I still think IM40 is the best of those for the PvE options.

Fixing the AI on D would go a long way to cleaning up the PvP part of this game and how ineffective 90% of teams become as soon as you lose control of them.

Unknown

I like recharge, that i dislike is the cost of blue and that every freaking move makes you lose ap or stuns you
They could just say "every time you make a match you lose 50hp"

ErikPeter

Unibeam: No AP drain. Done. It's already a solid attack (not the best but something worth spending Red on).
Recharge: I like the idea presented where it creates CDs of each color for the AP gain. With 3 CDs, only 1 (or none) fires all too often. With 7-9, at least 4-5 would usually get through and be worthwhile. Also it could just cost a static amount and the effect would increase each rank. Rank 5 could be "IM40 isn't stunned."
Ballistic Salvo: To keep keep the power concept similar, how about a tweak like the following (I've given it roughly the same effects, but a bit stronger and usable with less AP). You'd still want to hold off (to lessen the annoyance of the reserve drain) but it would be more useful as a finisher. At max rank, with 21 blue AP, it'd deal roughly the same amount of damage to the enemy team, and destroy a few more tiles. Of course if there's only one enemy left they'd get hit for 9k which is great. 14 AP is less efficient but still provides 5k damage, spread jagged or to a single target.

Ballistic Salvo 14 AP (5 ranks)

IM40 unleashes a salvo of rockets which crater the battlefield, destroying 6 tiles and stunning the target for 2 turns. This draining attack consumes all of your blue AP and 2 AP in other colors; for every 3 Blue AP spent, deals 1350 damage to a random enemy.

Rank 1: Destroys 2 tiles and deals 900 damage per 3 Blue AP. Consumes 3 AP in non-Blue colors.
Rank 2: 1050 damage per 3 AP.
Rank 3: Consumes 2 AP in non-Blue colors. Destroys 4 tiles.
Rank 4: 1200 damage per 3 Blue AP.
Rank 5: 1350 damage per 3 Blue AP. Destroys 6 tiles and stuns the target for 2 turns.

Pwuz_

ErikPeter wrote:

Ballistic Salvo: To keep keep the power concept similar, how about a tweak like the following (I've given it roughly the same effects, but a bit stronger and usable with less AP). You'd still want to hold off (to lessen the annoyance of the reserve drain) but it would be more useful as a finisher. At max rank, with 21 blue AP, it'd deal roughly the same amount of damage to the enemy team, and destroy a few more tiles. Of course if there's only one enemy left they'd get hit for 9k which is great. 14 AP is less efficient but still provides 5k damage, spread jagged or to a single target.

Ballistic Salvo 14 AP (5 ranks)

IM40 unleashes a salvo of rockets which crater the battlefield, destroying 6 tiles and stunning the target for 2 turns. This draining attack consumes all of your blue AP and 2 AP in other colors; for every 3 Blue AP spent, deals 1350 damage to a random enemy.

Rank 1: Destroys 2 tiles and deals 900 damage per 3 Blue AP. Consumes 3 AP in non-Blue colors.
Rank 2: 1050 damage per 3 AP.
Rank 3: Consumes 2 AP in non-Blue colors. Destroys 4 tiles.
Rank 4: 1200 damage per 3 Blue AP.
Rank 5: 1350 damage per 3 Blue AP. Destroys 6 tiles and stuns the target for 2 turns.

Oh, this sounds wonderful. A brutal attack that could potentially be doing as much as 40500 Damage! I'm not sure how much I like the idea of it being a random enemy that it hits for each, but certainly feels appropriate for the description of the move & character.

Unknown

dkffiv wrote:

Not that its entirely justified but his costs are under the assumption you are generating a lot of your own AP with Recharge. Same reasoning as why Rag's abilities all suck ****.

So true. If all your yellow countdowns resolve (a pretty big "if", since you often lose at least one of them), you get 9 red, 9 blue and maybe more depending on the level of yellow. That's a lot of extra mana, but to even get there, you have to collect yellow mana, wait for a good board (meaning "no yellow tiles being matchable"), wait for the countdowns to resolve, wait for your stun to wear off. That's way too many factors to make his mana generation usable. Now, if yellow didn't even have any countdowns, but just stunned him instead, THAT would be something! But still, getting 9 red and 9 blue doesn't mean that his other abilities cost 4 red and 11 blue, it's more like you divide the 10 yellow you have to get and red then costs 9 while blue costs 14. I would still expect higher damage at those prices but IF he got the mana right away without countdowns, this would at least be "okay" instead of "bad".

This guy is one of the oldest characters and has never been good in any way, other than being a tank for other characters, and he's even a bad tank. He desperately needs a rebuild.

Speaking of builds, since his red and blue is both overcosted and quite bad, could there be any idea in building him as maybe 5 4 4 or even 5 3 5 ? I have two yellow covers now and have to decide what to do with them (he's already at 3 yellow, so no going back now).

Marc_Spector

Daige wrote:

Speaking of builds, since his red and blue is both overcosted and quite bad, could there be any idea in building him as maybe 5 4 4 or even 5 3 5 ? I have two yellow covers now and have to decide what to do with them (he's already at 3 yellow, so no going back now).

I've tried 5 yellow, thinking I'd try using him as a high-cost AP battery... it's PAINFULLY slow. Don't do it. As covers come up in the DDQ I'm going to switch him back to 5/5/3, not for the sake of using his damage abilities at all, but just to minimize the cost of yellow and only use it for generation when he's featured/essential.

I'm still utterly dumbfounded that such an old and obviously-problematic character hasn't received an iota of work. My theory is that enough whales still spend money on him -- because, hey, who doesn't love Iron Man? -- that it hasn't been worth devoting the time/resources to such a broken yet profitable character.

Unknown

Marc Spector wrote:

Daige wrote:

Speaking of builds, since his red and blue is both overcosted and quite bad, could there be any idea in building him as maybe 5 4 4 or even 5 3 5 ? I have two yellow covers now and have to decide what to do with them (he's already at 3 yellow, so no going back now).

I've tried 5 yellow, thinking I'd try using him as a high-cost AP battery... it's PAINFULLY slow. Don't do it. As covers come up in the DDQ I'm going to switch him back to 5/5/3, not for the sake of using his damage abilities at all, but just to minimize the cost of yellow and only use it for generation when he's featured/essential.

I'm still utterly dumbfounded that such an old and obviously-problematic character hasn't received an iota of work. My theory is that enough whales still spend money on him -- because, hey, who doesn't love Iron Man? -- that it hasn't been worth devoting the time/resources to such a broken yet profitable character.

I'm thinking 4 yellow might still work. If you don't get a match-4 or match-5, you have to match yellow four times to get those 10 AP but four matches will actually net you 12 yellow AP. 5 in blue isn't really useful, you just get one extra turn of stun.

Yeah, it's not like we ever use him, other than when it's mandatory or when he's buffed. Still, he can take a heavy beating and power up lots of other characters, so...well, why not, it's worth a shot. Gotta experiment a little sometimes. It's not like I'll cry rivers of blood. Oh wait, that sounds scary, maybe I shouldn't...ooops, too late. Here goes.

Ruinate

I have a IM40 with 1 yellow and whatever combination of blue and red. I have an additional yellow sitting in the bank and a third yellow will be coming up in DDQ tomorrow. So what do I do, guys? 1, 2, or 3 yellow? What's more useful all around?

dfields3710

Ruinate wrote:

I have a IM40 with 1 yellow and whatever combination of blue and red. I have an additional yellow sitting in the bank and a third yellow will be coming up in DDQ tomorrow. So what do I do, guys? 1, 2, or 3 yellow? What's more useful all around?

His best build consists of 3 yellow and 5 red and blue. Since his red and blue costs don't change you can level them up to 5. If you level his yellow is past 3 it costs more and its to risky for its high cost. An incomplete IM40 is just as bad as a his high level yellow. I personally built him 5/5/3 and he does not disappoint me but it is best to use his yellow when yellow is scattered on the board so you can get its full reward. I hope this answered your question.

Unknown

dfields3710 wrote:

Ruinate wrote:

I have a IM40 with 1 yellow and whatever combination of blue and red. I have an additional yellow sitting in the bank and a third yellow will be coming up in DDQ tomorrow. So what do I do, guys? 1, 2, or 3 yellow? What's more useful all around?

His best build consists of 3 yellow and 5 red and blue. Since his red and blue costs don't change you can level them up to 5. If you level his yellow is past 3 it costs more and its to risky for its high cost. An incomplete IM40 is just as bad as a his high level yellow. I personally built him 5/5/3 and he does not disappoint me but it is best to use his yellow when yellow is scattered on the board so you can get its full reward. I hope this answered your question.

Just the question I was looking for to be answered, talk about a coincidence....

And I suppose if I just get too many s, I can just build a new iron man. I wish they would've fixed him already, tho...

Unknown

So. Im a relatively new player, (only been playing almost 2 months) but I obtained the blue and red covers from the recent Juggernaut PVE, and I have to say this is the worst character I've played yet. Im currently running a team of him, Jstorm, and wolverine for the Brotherhood event, (They're just my best roster with the boosts) and even though with the level boost he's outleveled the other 2, he still does roughly the same damage, at ridiculous costs for his abilities with the side penalty as well.

Ultimately, his only purpose on my team right now is to be a big bag of armored Hitpoints, and it's just... not vey entertaining. The big thing that sets MPQ apart from other puzzle games is the character abilities, and having a character with overcosted and overpenalized abilities winds up just being bland.

I mean, an ability with an AP cost of 20 and those drawbacks? That should be a match ending nuke, but its rarely helped me at all, because normally if a match has went this long against the dark avengers characters, and I gathered 20 blue? My team is wiped, because I left red on the board for more efficient damage abilities.

Really disappointed in this character. I felt like 1 star Iron Man's abilities were a touch overcosted, but honestly, I'd prefer a level 100 version of him to this guy.

Gowaderacer

Haetron wrote:

So. Im a relatively new player, (only been playing almost 2 months) but I obtained the blue and red covers from the recent Juggernaut PVE, and I have to say this is the worst character I've played yet. Im currently running a team of him, Jstorm, and wolverine for the Brotherhood event, (They're just my best roster with the boosts) and even though with the level boost he's outleveled the other 2, he still does roughly the same damage, at ridiculous costs for his abilities with the side penalty as well.

Ultimately, his only purpose on my team right now is to be a big bag of armored Hitpoints, and it's just... not vey entertaining. The big thing that sets MPQ apart from other puzzle games is the character abilities, and having a character with overcosted and overpenalized abilities winds up just being bland.

I mean, an ability with an AP cost of 20 and those drawbacks? That should be a match ending nuke, but its rarely helped me at all, because normally if a match has went this long against the dark avengers characters, and I gathered 20 blue? My team is wiped, because I left red on the board for more efficient damage abilities.

Really disappointed in this character. I felt like 1 star Iron Man's abilities were a touch overcosted, but honestly, I'd prefer a level 100 version of him to this guy.

The thing to remember about IM40 is that he was one of the first (if not the first?) and the design philosophy for 3* was very different back then.

Does IM40 need a major rework? Absolutely. Is it likely to happen now that IM Hulkbuster exists? Probably not. The only real use for IM40 at this point is a punching bag that can produce red and blue ap for more powerful characters (ex. 4* Thor).

Unknown

Gowaderacer wrote:

Haetron wrote:

So. Im a relatively new player, (only been playing almost 2 months) but I obtained the blue and red covers from the recent Juggernaut PVE, and I have to say this is the worst character I've played yet. Im currently running a team of him, Jstorm, and wolverine for the Brotherhood event, (They're just my best roster with the boosts) and even though with the level boost he's outleveled the other 2, he still does roughly the same damage, at ridiculous costs for his abilities with the side penalty as well.

Ultimately, his only purpose on my team right now is to be a big bag of armored Hitpoints, and it's just... not vey entertaining. The big thing that sets MPQ apart from other puzzle games is the character abilities, and having a character with overcosted and overpenalized abilities winds up just being bland.

I mean, an ability with an AP cost of 20 and those drawbacks? That should be a match ending nuke, but its rarely helped me at all, because normally if a match has went this long against the dark avengers characters, and I gathered 20 blue? My team is wiped, because I left red on the board for more efficient damage abilities.

Really disappointed in this character. I felt like 1 star Iron Man's abilities were a touch overcosted, but honestly, I'd prefer a level 100 version of him to this guy.

The thing to remember about IM40 is that he was one of the first (if not the first?) and the design philosophy for 3* was very different back then.

Does IM40 need a major rework? Absolutely. Is it likely to happen now that IM Hulkbuster exists? Probably not. The only real use for IM40 at this point is a punching bag that can produce red and blue ap for more powerful characters (ex. 4* Thor).

D3 said they would retune IM40. They need to keep their word.

Warbringa

Yes he certainly needs help as he is pretty bad. If it were me I would focus on making his yellow much better and if you retool it enough to make him a potentially viable AP generator still with some risks, he may see more play. The penalty on his blue and red needs to be reduced along with the cost of the blue ability. This would be my plan:

1.) Drop the AP cost of the yellow ability to as follows: Rank 1 - 6 Yellow, Rank 2 - 7 Yellow, Rank 3- 8 Yellow, Rank 4 - 9 Yellow, Rank 5 - 10 Yellow and have him stunned for a number of turns equal to the number of countdown tiles that fire - also each yellow countdown tile that fires produces a weak shield tile randomly - no where near the level of some other protectors but another reason to use the ability
2.) Increase his health slightly by around 500 or so at max (health is one of his few upsides so making it even a little better can't hurt)
3.) Reduce the AP loss from his red power to 2 AP at level 2 and increase the damage so that by level 5 so that is does at least as much if not more damage than Wolv Adamantium Slash (Level 5 would be another damage increase btw)
4.) Reduce the cost of his blue power to 16 and level 5 of this ability stuns current target for 2 rounds and all other targets for 1 round - also increase the damage at max level by at least another 500 to each enemy

He still wouldn't be the greatest character but he needs better damage due to his hefty penalties of AP loss. The problem is they really need to make his yellow more attractive because it is way too weak now due to high AP cost and the 2 turn stun plus it isn't even guaranteed since it only produces countdown tiles. So many times I have played him, most of his countdown tiles don't make it to zero. Nothing is worse than using his yellow and having all but 1 countdown tile matched and he is then stunned for 2 rounds - hence the stunned = to number of countdown tiles that fire change. I know this could potentially stun him for 3 rounds but if all three tiles go off you should be able to destroy the other team with your other characters abilities with all that AP. The shield tile strength would have to be worked out but they would be on the weaker side but still an added benefit to make his ability better.

I think these changes would make him playable but he still wouldn't probably be top tier 3* but he would be respectable as his AP generation may win (or lose) you matches based on the semi-randomness of it. I think his AP generation with these changes would still be weaker than characters who steal AP and that may still be the root of the issue but at least he would be better than he is now!

Ludaa

Build him with 1 or 2 yellow and he provides great utility when needed in PvE. Had a 551, went 552, and am kicking Jugg's butt when paired up with 4Thor. Pair him with any strong red/blue user. They even gave a loaner 551 in the Iso-8 Brotherhood main node, so they know...they know.

Unknown

Just brainstorming an idea:

Iron Fist's Purple Ability checks to see if you have Black AP, and if you don't have enough, converts tiles, but if you do, does straightforward damage.

Could they make it so Iron Man's Blue, (and Possibly Red) checks to see how much AP you have, and then only trigger the AP loss in other colors if your AP isn't high enough?

IE, change his blue to be 15, and keep the AP loss penalty, but if you reach a higher threshold, the AP loss Penalty doesn't take plus in other colors, but instead burns off the excess in the same color?

I don't think his yellow needs to change, personally, it's probably his one good power as is.

dfields3710

Warbringa wrote:

Yes he certainly needs help as he is pretty bad. If it were me I would focus on making his yellow much better and if you retool it enough to make him a potentially viable AP generator still with some risks, he may see more play. The penalty on his blue and red needs to be reduced along with the cost of the blue ability. This would be my plan:

1.) Drop the AP cost of the yellow ability to as follows: Rank 1 - 6 Yellow, Rank 2 - 7 Yellow, Rank 3- 8 Yellow, Rank 4 - 9 Yellow, Rank 5 - 10 Yellow and have him stunned for a number of turns equal to the number of countdown tiles that fire - also each yellow countdown tile that fires produces a weak shield tile randomly - no where near the level of some other protectors but another reason to use the ability
2.) Increase his health slightly by around 500 or so at max (health is one of his few upsides so making it even a little better can't hurt)
3.) Reduce the AP loss from his red power to 2 AP at level 2 and increase the damage so that by level 5 so that is does at least as much if not more damage than Wolv Adamantium Slash (Level 5 would be another damage increase btw)
4.) Reduce the cost of his blue power to 16 and level 5 of this ability stuns current target for 2 rounds and all other targets for 1 round - also increase the damage at max level by at least another 500 to each enemy

He still wouldn't be the greatest character but he needs better damage due to his hefty penalties of AP loss. The problem is they really need to make his yellow more attractive because it is way too weak now due to high AP cost and the 2 turn stun plus it isn't even guaranteed since it only produces countdown tiles. So many times I have played him, most of his countdown tiles don't make it to zero. Nothing is worse than using his yellow and having all but 1 countdown tile matched and he is then stunned for 2 rounds - hence the stunned = to number of countdown tiles that fire change. I know this could potentially stun him for 3 rounds but if all three tiles go off you should be able to destroy the other team with your other characters abilities with all that AP. The shield tile strength would have to be worked out but they would be on the weaker side but still an added benefit to make his ability better.

I think these changes would make him playable but he still wouldn't probably be top tier 3* but he would be respectable as his AP generation may win (or lose) you matches based on the semi-randomness of it. I think his AP generation with these changes would still be weaker than characters who steal AP and that may still be the root of the issue but at least he would be better than he is now!

Or they could make his yellow a passive like dorammu aid and still call it recharge. Its description could be "iron man pushes his suit to its limits protecting everybody constantly needing to recharge. He takes power from anything even his enemies!
Lvl 1 just 1 blue ap
Lvl 2 1 red blue ap
Lvl 3 1 green, blue, red ap
Lvl 4 1 yellow, green,blue, red and purple ap
Lvl 5 1 basically 1 ap from every color ap

They can keep his high ap cost, his ap drain, and make him a viable ap stealer and high damage dealer and he could synergize well with a lot of other people. He could either become top-mid tier. His high health would keep him being playable too. What do you think? Could it happen?

Unknown

No shot at that ever EEEEEEEVER happening. You did see where Hood was passed over for HP buff and is now a 5100 point target on his back wuss right? A no board requirement Hood with 9690 HP is not ever going to fly, sorry.

dfields3710

Lerysh wrote:

No shot at that ever EEEEEEEVER happening. You did see where Hood was passed over for HP buff and is now a 5100 point target on his back wuss right? A no board requirement Hood with 9690 HP is not ever going to fly, sorry.

Jus thinking of something to help him. They could make his yellow just like magnetos polarity shift and GSBW purple ability. Or just lower his power costs. But I would just like new moves. Really he isn't playable unless you want someone to take damage, and/or build ap. He is just not worth the trouble.

Unknown

The yellow is generally viewed as his one good power, I think, and looking at the loaner version, I tend to agree. Leave it alone, fix the Red and Blue powers. They either need a cost cut, with the AP drain left in, or the AP drain taken out completely. I think they tried to balance him being able to self charge his own powers, but it's simply not worth undercutting your other characters, especially with how expensive they are.