*** Iron Man (Model 40) ***

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Comments

  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    I'm a little concerned about draining all the yellow without necessarily gaining a benefit (that and the AI is dumb as rocks and would always cast it at the first chance it got). I think I'd rather it cost 9 yellow at all ranks and gain the other colors without increasing the cost with increased covers. Maybe change 4 covers to purple and black and make 5 covers 3 to all colors except yellow.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    dkffiv wrote:
    I'm a little concerned about draining all the yellow without necessarily gaining a benefit (that and the AI is dumb as rocks and would always cast it at the first chance it got). I think I'd rather it cost 9 yellow at all ranks and gain the other colors without increasing the cost with increased covers. Maybe change 4 covers to purple and black and make 5 covers 3 to all colors except yellow.

    That unfortunately would be completely overpowered. You're spending 9 yellow AP for +9 Red AP, +9 blue, +6 on the rest? The reason why the AP cost increases in the first place is to prevent the ability from being too crazy. Level 1/2 Recharge is already good enough that a rework on his red/blue would make him probably top tier by itself.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    I'm a little concerned about draining all the yellow without necessarily gaining a benefit (that and the AI is dumb as rocks and would always cast it at the first chance it got). I think I'd rather it cost 9 yellow at all ranks and gain the other colors without increasing the cost with increased covers. Maybe change 4 covers to purple and black and make 5 covers 3 to all colors except yellow.

    That unfortunately would be completely overpowered. You're spending 9 yellow AP for +9 Red AP, +9 blue, +6 on the rest? The reason why the AP cost increases in the first place is to prevent the ability from being too crazy. Level 1/2 Recharge is already good enough that a rework on his red/blue would make him probably top tier by itself.
    He still wouldn't be used because his red and blue cost too much. When's the last time you got 20 blue ap?
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    I'm a little concerned about draining all the yellow without necessarily gaining a benefit (that and the AI is dumb as rocks and would always cast it at the first chance it got). I think I'd rather it cost 9 yellow at all ranks and gain the other colors without increasing the cost with increased covers. Maybe change 4 covers to purple and black and make 5 covers 3 to all colors except yellow.

    That unfortunately would be completely overpowered. You're spending 9 yellow AP for +9 Red AP, +9 blue, +6 on the rest? The reason why the AP cost increases in the first place is to prevent the ability from being too crazy. Level 1/2 Recharge is already good enough that a rework on his red/blue would make him probably top tier by itself.

    That's assuming all the CD tiles survive. I think on average I usually get 2 to survive and it sucks when only 1 goes off. You're also taking one of your guys out of the fight when it goes off. I'd say do some play testing on 9 or 10 AP. Also assume that they make blue and red good enough that you really question which ones you want 5 covers in.

    The whole point is to buff him enough that you actually want to play him. With that change would Xforce/4hor/IM40 be the best team? If so, would any other team come close? Would that single buff, leaving red and blue as is, make him top tier?
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mattfal wrote:
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    I'm a little concerned about draining all the yellow without necessarily gaining a benefit (that and the AI is dumb as rocks and would always cast it at the first chance it got). I think I'd rather it cost 9 yellow at all ranks and gain the other colors without increasing the cost with increased covers. Maybe change 4 covers to purple and black and make 5 covers 3 to all colors except yellow.

    That unfortunately would be completely overpowered. You're spending 9 yellow AP for +9 Red AP, +9 blue, +6 on the rest? The reason why the AP cost increases in the first place is to prevent the ability from being too crazy. Level 1/2 Recharge is already good enough that a rework on his red/blue would make him probably top tier by itself.
    He still wouldn't be used because his red and blue cost too much. When's the last time you got 20 blue ap?


    5/5/1 and 5/5/2 IM40s are PvE allstars: having an IM40 that did the ability that you suggested would give him an instant spot on any PvE team, thats spending 9 yellow AP to generate 36 AP, which is ridiculous.
    dkffiv wrote:
    NorthernPolarity wrote:
    dkffiv wrote:
    I'm a little concerned about draining all the yellow without necessarily gaining a benefit (that and the AI is dumb as rocks and would always cast it at the first chance it got). I think I'd rather it cost 9 yellow at all ranks and gain the other colors without increasing the cost with increased covers. Maybe change 4 covers to purple and black and make 5 covers 3 to all colors except yellow.

    That unfortunately would be completely overpowered. You're spending 9 yellow AP for +9 Red AP, +9 blue, +6 on the rest? The reason why the AP cost increases in the first place is to prevent the ability from being too crazy. Level 1/2 Recharge is already good enough that a rework on his red/blue would make him probably top tier by itself.

    That's assuming all the CD tiles survive. I think on average I usually get 2 to survive and it sucks when only 1 goes off. You're also taking one of your guys out of the fight when it goes off. I'd say do some play testing on 9 or 10 AP. Also assume that they make blue and red good enough that you really question which ones you want 5 covers in.

    The whole point is to buff him enough that you actually want to play him. With that change would Xforce/4hor/IM40 be the best team? If so, would any other team come close? Would that single buff, leaving red and blue as is, make him top tier?

    When 9 yellow gives you a smite, a surge, and half of an x-force/surgical, then yes, he would be by far the best support for XF / LadyThor in PvE. He arguably becomes the best ladythor support in PvE as well if the featured had relevant abilities in two of the three colors of purple / green / black.

    In terms of getting IM40 actually playable, I think you're approaching this from the wrong angle, since red/blue's power level should be focused on, not yellow. His yellow should be a similar power level to how it is now, but not designed in such a way to screw you over if you cover it up (5/5/1 and 5/5/2 IM40 are significantly better than 5/5/3+), and that's what Lerysh's proposed change primarily accomplishes: to not make the player feel bad by covering up yellow. However, a character can rarely be brought onto a team for a single ability, so a buff on his red/blue makes far more sense than buffing his yellow.

    TLDR: yellow needs a rework to make it so that 5/5/1 and 5/5/2 are not miles better than 5/5/3+ and so the player isn't screwed if he has a 5/5/3 IM40, but is otherwise balanced power level wise. Red and blue need to be buffed to make IM40 playable.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    You're operating under the assumption that all 3 tiles will survive all the time (which would mostly only occur vs. goons). Currently 3 covers is pretty expensive and 4+ is very expensive for casting. 10 AP may be the sweet spot but I'd do some testing with 9. This is also assuming that red and blue are brought in line with most other abilities and there are compelling reasons to want to 5 cover both of them.
  • dkffiv
    dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was doing some thinking about buffing him thematically and came up with

    At Max Level: HP: 8500 Tile damage: 70/79/61/13/12/11/3.5
      Unibeam - Red 13 redtile.png
      Tony Stark diverts all power to a focused energy beam fired from Model 40's chest, damaging himself in the process. Deals 743 damage and costs 4 of the team's AP in every other color, dealing 74 damage to the enemy and 19 to himself per additional AP spent.
        Level 2: 10% damage on the flat amount Level 3: Drains 3 AP from other colors. Deals 99 to the enemy and 25 to himself per AP. Level 4: 10% damage on the flat amount Level 5: Drains 2 AP from other colors. Deals 148 to the enemy and 38 to himself per AP.
      Max Level: 2825 damage + 565 damage to enemy / 141 to self per AP spent. Up to an additional 5650 (damaging himself for 1413). 8475 maximum damage.
        Ballistic Salvo - Blue 14 bluetile.png
        Fires primed homing missiles. They do 355 damage to each enemy and prepare to detonate, leaving 3 3-turn CD tiles that deal 35 damage to each enemy when they resolve.
          Level 2: 10% damage Level 3: 2 turn CD tiles Level 4: 10% damage Level 5: CD tile stuns enemy team for 2 turns
        Max Level: 3130 damage +313 per CD tile (4069 total)
          Rearm - Yellow 12 yellowtile.png
          Recharges weapon systems. Creates 3 Countdown tiles that activate after 2 turns, restoring 3 Red AP and healing Iron Man for 10% of his maximum life each. Iron Man is then stunned for 2 turns as systems reinitialize.
            Level 2: Each Countdown tile also restores 3 Blue AP. Level 3: Each Countdown tile also restores 2 Green AP. Level 4: Each Countdown tile also restores 2 Purple and Black AP. Level 5: Each Countdown tile now heals for 15% of Iron Man's maximum life.


          I was thinking of something slightly different for his yellow but it would take more effort to implement. The effect is the same but instead of CD tiles, Iron Man immediately stuns himself for 2 turns and the AP/heal occurs as soon as the stun is resolved. While stunned he is forced to be in front (like Colossus' yellow) and if he takes over 25% of his maximum life (cumulative) before the 2 turns are up he is knocked out of Recharge and he does not gain the AP or health. An internal counter would be needed to keep track of the damage he takes so that heals/shields would not mess with it resolving.
        • Unknown
          Unknown
          IceIX wrote:
          *** Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel) ***

          Embiggened Bash - 12 greentile.png AP
          Ms. Marvel's embiggened fists of rage strike down her enemies! For justice! Deals 411 damage to the enemy team.
          Level Upgrades
            Level 2: Deals 493 damage to the enemy team. Level 3: Deals 575 damage to the enemy team. Level 4: Deals 740 damage to the enemy team. Level 5: Deals 1069 damage to the enemy team.
          Max Level
            Level 3 - Deals 1826 damage to the enemy team. Level 4 - Deals 2347 damage to the enemy team. Level 5 - Deals 3390 damage to the enemy team.

          After seeing this, I think the buff for IM40 is needed now more than ever,
          since comparing to "Whale whale whale" and this power, his Ballistic Salvo is becoming a joke.
          (with 20 AP plus every 2 APs of other colour with less damage) icon_mad.gif
        • Marc_Spector
          Marc_Spector Posts: 628 Critical Contributor
          With the new Season starting tonight, I'm really hoping IM40 is fixed when he rotates back in... he's been vaulted a longggg time now, hasn't he?
        • dkffiv
          dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
          Berto_Y wrote:
          IceIX wrote:
          *** Kamala Khan (Ms. Marvel) ***

          Embiggened Bash - 12 greentile.png AP
          Ms. Marvel's embiggened fists of rage strike down her enemies! For justice! Deals 411 damage to the enemy team.
          Level Upgrades
            Level 2: Deals 493 damage to the enemy team. Level 3: Deals 575 damage to the enemy team. Level 4: Deals 740 damage to the enemy team. Level 5: Deals 1069 damage to the enemy team.
          Max Level
            Level 3 - Deals 1826 damage to the enemy team. Level 4 - Deals 2347 damage to the enemy team. Level 5 - Deals 3390 damage to the enemy team.

          After seeing this, I think the buff for IM40 is needed now more than ever,
          since comparing to "Whale whale whale" and this power, his Ballistic Salvo is becoming a joke.
          (with 20 AP plus every 2 APs of other colour with less damage) icon_mad.gif

          IM40/GSBW/Rag have an increased AP cost penalty because they can "generate" their own AP but they seemed to have forgotten about that for Kamala. Maybe they'll wait 2 months then nerf Kamala's purple.
        • dfields3710
          dfields3710 Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
          Get off of Iron Man Model 40. Everybody just keep complaining about powers not being fast enough or a power hurting himself is such a bad thing. I don't want every character to have easily spammable, high damage ,no consequence attacks. As soon as they fix it people are just going to complain that he is to OP. He is Iron Man he has a finite amount of power( he has to have a drawback) Unibeam and Ballistic Salvo are huge attacks of course he is going to mess himself over and recharge is like the real comic version he's going to lose power at a faster rate using high level powers and recharge is him taking a break(recharging). Everybody complained about Sentry powers being OP. Now they nerfed him to the point he is mediocre. Stop complaining and get over it. Use a different character if you think he is worthless, useless, or pointless.
        • Talahamut
          Talahamut Posts: 231 Tile Toppler
          Except they're not huge attacks anymore. And they were over-costed even when he was brand-new...
        • NorthernPolarity
          NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
          dfields3710 wrote:
          Get off of Iron Man Model 40. Everybody just keep complaining about powers not being fast enough or a power hurting himself is such a bad thing. I don't want every character to have easily spammable, high damage ,no consequence attacks. As soon as they fix it people are just going to complain that he is to OP. He is Iron Man he has a finite amount of power( he has to have a drawback) Unibeam and Ballistic Salvo are huge attacks of course he is going to mess himself over and recharge is like the real comic version he's going to lose power at a faster rate using high level powers and recharge is him taking a break(recharging). Everybody complained about Sentry powers being OP. Now they nerfed him to the point he is mediocre. Stop complaining and get over it. Use a different character if you think he is worthless, useless, or pointless.

          I don't see people complaining about C. Mags after he was nerfed. Seems like we have another victim of Sentry PTSD here. IM40's toolkit is extremely outdated with the power creep thats been introduced: to keep him at a **** state because your'e afraid of Demiurge messing it up is simply cowardice.
        • dfields3710
          dfields3710 Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
          Talahamut wrote:
          Except they're not huge attacks anymore. And they were over-costed even when he was brand-new...

          Put him with someone that are ap stealers. His powers are easier to get and he deals a nice amount of damage.
        • Unknown
          Unknown
          dfields3710 wrote:
          Talahamut wrote:
          Except they're not huge attacks anymore. And they were over-costed even when he was brand-new...

          Put him with someone that are ap stealers. His powers are easier to get and he deals a nice amount of damage.

          No, he doesn't. You can do more damage with 20 Blue using Magneto, especially if a target is already downed. And you can deal more damage with red using MANY other characters, most recently Cyclops. IM40's only function is to generate AP from yellow using Recharge. His 8500 health use to be attractive as a tanking HP number, but it's not even anymore. Hulk/Thor/Captain America have rendered IM40 to a 1 trick pony.
        • ronin_san
          ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
          He needs to have his redflag.png and his blueflag.png revisited. Certainly with Cyclops and Luke Cage, we see relevant damage at 13 and with 14-19 with GSBW and Thor.

          I think he should stun himself in overexerting his suit, warranting a reboot, if he doesn't have the 2-4 AP in the other AP reserves. Remove the AP gain stun from his yellowflag.png . That's it. He gets A LOT better.
        • Unknown
          Unknown
          I played with him a ton when he first came out, but I was as green as the game and he was my first heavily covered 3*. Hell, I think one of the reasons I leveled him as high as I did as quickly as I did was cause I needed him to tank blue for CStorm.

          All of which is to say: even when he was first released, you were better of using recharge to power wind storm.
        • dkffiv
          dkffiv Posts: 1,039 Chairperson of the Boards
          He was sorta amazing when he first came out. Recharge would give you enough blue to power OBW and you could full heal your team via yellow if the board was dry of blue. Wait for recharge to go off, gravity device then down the enemy with your other colors leaving you with perfect health as the match ended.

          Unless the enemy is low enough that red will deal a killing blow I just about only use him for his yellow now. He is still the occasional PvE hero as he does a good job of protecting OBW on 300+ nodes but I've been meaning to see if Luke Cage is a better replacement for him.
        • dfields3710
          dfields3710 Posts: 159 Tile Toppler
          Ok I see what everybody is saying. He gets replaced by other characters. I know that, that's why I said earlier that his ap cost are too high. But in my opinion (should of said that earlier), his ap cost is normal because I put him on teams that heal and steal ap( spiderman, blade, etc.)

          Side Note: He's the 3* equivalent of Iron Man. His cost is proportionate to his damage like unibeam.
        • Unknown
          Unknown
          dfields3710 wrote:
          Ok I see what everybody is saying. He gets replaced by other characters. I know that, that's why I said earlier that his ap cost are too high. But in my opinion (should of said that earlier), his ap cost is normal because I put him on teams that heal and steal ap( spiderman, blade, etc.)

          Side Note: He's the 3* equivalent of Iron Man. His cost is proportionate to his damage like unibeam.

          "Being Ironman" is not a reason to have high cost powers. He's simply one of the oldest characters in existence and thus his powers show their power creep rust. It doesn't matter if you have AP steal on your team, because that AP can be better fed to other characters. His power cost is just too damn high.

          I could see something like Cyclops/Fury working where if you don't have the bonus color AP you stun yourself, or if you DO have the bonus color AP you do extra damage and stun yourself. Bottom line is his powers need revisted. 13 AP should net you no less than 6000 damage right now.

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