*** Iron Man (Model 40) ***

OnesOwnGrief

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think I am going to be respecing my IM40 to 5/3/5. The reason is 1, why waste points in a blue skill you never use. 2, by having yellow maxed, it raises the cost, by raising the cost I am able to have him paired with Thor or any other higher costing yellow, without fear the AI will cast recharge while on defense. So since I never play him except PvP, I would like him to be the most optimal in that enviornment, which means having him do nothing else but tank, and a 5/3/5 lets him sit there, absorb punishment and not mess the AI up.

The AI would stock yellow instead of firing it off for Thor when it can. It seems to make a roll for what ability to on a turn.

Phaserhawk

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think I am going to be respecing my IM40 to 5/3/5. The reason is 1, why waste points in a blue skill you never use. 2, by having yellow maxed, it raises the cost, by raising the cost I am able to have him paired with Thor or any other higher costing yellow, without fear the AI will cast recharge while on defense. So since I never play him except PvP, I would like him to be the most optimal in that enviornment, which means having him do nothing else but tank, and a 5/3/5 lets him sit there, absorb punishment and not mess the AI up.

The AI would stock yellow instead of firing it off for Thor when it can. It seems to make a roll for what ability to on a turn.

but it rolls that every turn I beleive, and it tends to favor damage causing abilties over non from my experience. In fact I can't remember a time the AI hasn't opted for the damage ability when it could have casted a non damaging ability. The cost seems to be more a roll, as well as what the health of your character is. If you had a character with 2K health that the AI could down with one ability, it will always try to finish off the character, I have used this to my advantage a few times, by putting a character that is weak enough to die quite easily, but leveled enough to have a tile. The AI loves to blow their skills to kill that character you didn't need anyway. It's a good way to save on Health Packs.

Nonce Equitaur 2

To be ultra cool, his Recharge should get a heads-up display.

"How much power, sir?"
6 ooo . . . 8 ooo . . . 10 oo . . . 12 oo . . . 14 oo

If he doesn't have enough power, he can't trigger the higher recharges. If he has 6, he can trigger a red-only recharge. This would greatly improve his flexibility. If he only had 3 covers, then the purple and black options wouldn't be there.

I'd tweak the costs a bit.

"How much power, sir?"
6 ooo . . . 8 ooo . . . 9 oo . . . 10 oo . . . 12 oo

Polares

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

To be ultra cool, his Recharge should get a heads-up display.

"How much power, sir?"
6 ooo . . . 8 ooo . . . 10 oo . . . 12 oo . . . 14 oo

If he doesn't have enough power, he can't trigger the higher recharges. If he has 6, he can trigger a red-only recharge. This would greatly improve his flexibility. If he only had 3 covers, then the purple and black options wouldn't be there.

I'd tweak the costs a bit.

"How much power, sir?"
6 ooo . . . 8 ooo . . . 9 oo . . . 10 oo . . . 12 oo

Great great Idea, I hope ICEIX or someone from D3 can see it because it would be really great and It will encourage everyone to get to 5 covers in yellow (of course this will be a tricky power for the IA, but for human players it would be great).

Unknown

Even without the ap drain his attacks are overpriced. Both should cost 10-12 with no drain. The idea above for his yellow is great too.

jojeda654

Typhon13 wrote:

Even without the ap drain his attacks are overpriced. Both should cost 10-12 with no drain. The idea above for his yellow is great too.

I was thinking about this. Would IM40 be a good character if the AP drains worked like Onslaught? That is, for every AP consumed, an additional X amount of damage was dealt.

Unknown

jojeda654 wrote:

Typhon13 wrote:

Even without the ap drain his attacks are overpriced. Both should cost 10-12 with no drain. The idea above for his yellow is great too.

I was thinking about this. Would IM40 be a good character if the AP drains worked like Onslaught? That is, for every AP consumed, an additional X amount of damage was dealt.

I dig this idea. Easy wording change. Drains up to 2 AP of every color, every AP consumed deals additional x damage. Totally makes him very useable without being OP.

Unknown

His bonus for draining AP is supposedly built into the power already. 13 red for 4,000 damage, that's on par with TBTI and better than most other reds.

He does need some balance work, but that's not the direction I think they would go.

OnesOwnGrief

I wouldn't mind his blue being brought down to 16 and his Yellow being 9 AP across the board. Considering you're asking me to take a 2 turn stun and is one of the worst moves if IM40 is the last one standing, 9 AP shouldn't be to much to ask. His Red feels fine for where it's at. Maybe 12 AP for Red.

Nabistay

My suggestions on how to fix him, using the idea on the previous page

someguy wrote:

[anchor=ironman3]Iron Man (Model 40)[/anchor]
3 Star Rarity (Rare)

Unibeam - stays the same

Ballistic Salvo - Blue 20 AP
Fires charged homing missiles. They do 355 damage to each enemy and crater the battlefield, destroying 3 2x2 random blocks. Uses reserve power, sapping 2 AP from red and yellow, if available. Each AP sapped reduces blue cost.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: 10% damage

Level 3: Also can sap Black, Green and Purple
Level 4: 10% damage
Level 5: 3 3x3 random blocks
Max Level: 2669 damage, plus possible cascades

Recharge - Yellow 6 AP
Recharges weapon systems. Iron Man is stunned for 2 turns but creates a red and blue 1 turn countdown tile, each restoring 3 AP of their color when his systems reboot.
Level Upgrades

Level 2:

Creates a Green countdown tile as well if 8 yellow AP is available
Level 3: Creates a Purple countdown tile as well if 10 yellow AP is available
Level 4: Creates a Black countdown tile as well if 12 yellow AP is available
Level 5: Each countdown returns 4 AP

Fixing ballistic salvo to use a little from every color while reducing the cost i think would make the ability useful, as opposed to the way it is now where it just costs too much. It would also incentivize using it immediately after recharge. It would also reduce it to a possible cost of 2 red, yellow, green, purple, black and 10 blue, as opposed to maximum cost now of 20 blue, and 3 red, yellow, green purple, black and blue

Recharge this way incorporates the 'optional' AP ramp to return extra colors, spreads out the countdown tiles so you always get some, and allows a little more strategy in what AP you get or give.

But mostly, He should be stunned while his weapon systems are recharging, not after. That makes no sense! This way his weapons are recharging, and as soon as they are ready to go, he is ready to go.

Thoughts?

jojeda654

Nabistay wrote:

He should be stunned while his weapon systems are recharging, not after. That makes no sense!

Sure, it makes sense to make no moves while your batteries are recharging. Once they are at full capacity, then you can unleash all your powers. However, in-game, the timers on Countdown tiles do not decrease if they belong to stunned characters. So IM40 would be stunned for the rest of the match as soon as he casts Recharge.

CrookedKnight

I guess Recharge could be coded as a 0-turn countdown? As long as IM40 is stunned the tiles would be inert, but as soon as he comes back the countdowns go off immediately.

OnesOwnGrief

CrookedKnight wrote:

I guess Recharge could be coded as a 0-turn countdown? As long as IM40 is stunned the tiles would be inert, but as soon as he comes back the countdowns go off immediately.

Or how about, just go with me here for a minute, we increase Recharge cost but make it 100% proc. Right now, we have to keep in mind that they added a new status to the game, (Airborne). It shouldn't actually be to difficult to borrow that code and modify it for (Recharging). It would cause IM40 to become unusable for a duration and when he's back, he gains that AP immediately. During this period he is still susceptible to attacks. It would cause him be much more of a threat than he is now. Though I admit that it sounds completely bonkers.

Unknown

Just noticed in heavy metal that his blue and red drain team up too. Why?

Unknown

Just because they do. Their damage is was considered high for their cost at his implementation. They aren't now, but they were then. You can use the power even if you don't have any other color AP, if you match 13 red and nothing else then Unibeam gets a discount. Assuming you drain all the colors you pay 10 AP extra. Max level max covers damage per AP: Unibeam 3559/23 = 154, Ballistic Salvo (2669*3)/30 = 266.9. For reference, Thor's Call the Storm is (2259*4)/14 = 645. 500 damage per AP is considered "good" with about 300 being considered "average".

IM Needs a rework, but enough people use him as HP plus 1 yellow cover for utility that he is way way down the list of changes needed.

Unknown

What is the suggested build now? I think 5/5/3 since his yellow costs a lot more when you level it up. However, would a 5/3/5 work too? You'd need to start collecting yellow ASAP, use it, and then you'd probably have enough AP to cast his red and blue too if you are using MN Mags in your team.

Phaserhawk

KevinMark wrote:

What is the suggested build now? I think 5/5/3 since his yellow costs a lot more when you level it up. However, would a 5/3/5 work too? You'd need to start collecting yellow ASAP, use it, and then you'd probably have enough AP to cast his red and blue too if you are using MN Mags in your team.

Assuming you are using 13 covers

---

5/5/3--most offensive build (assuming AP is not your issue, this is the most offensive)
5/4/4--most efficient build (you lose stun on blue, but you get an extra color on yellow and it's still in 4 match range same as 3 yellow)
5/3/5--best defensive build (because you can guarentee another characters skills will go off before his)

Unknown

Lerysh wrote:

Just because they do. Their damage is was considered high for their cost at his implementation. They aren't now, but they were then. You can use the power even if you don't have any other color AP, if you match 13 red and nothing else then Unibeam gets a discount. Assuming you drain all the colors you pay 10 AP extra. Max level max covers damage per AP: Unibeam 3559/23 = 154, Ballistic Salvo (2669*3)/30 = 266.9. For reference, Thor's Call the Storm is (2259*4)/14 = 645. 500 damage per AP is considered "good" with about 300 being considered "average".

IM Needs a rework, but enough people use him as HP plus 1 yellow cover for utility that he is way way down the list of changes needed.

But that's the thing - its not costing you 10, its costing you 12 because the team up gets drained. I had it where I had Sentry Supernova and used unibeam first because sentry ends the turn and firing away just shot the teamup down. Its makes your numbers even worse to 142.36 and 250.2 respectively. The best time to use him is as a tank with a battery (feeding into Patch, C Mags, Punisher, Psylocke) or when he is boosted as he gets 246.44 and 433.2.

Phaserhawk

To show how out of date he is. If he was to do exactly what he does but adjusted for cost.

Unibeam would be 8-9
Ballistic Salvo woudl be 12-14
Recharge would be 8 across the board.

If these were his costs, he still wouldn't be great because of AP drain, but he would be mid tier, lower mid tier but above She-Hulk, Beast, etc.

Unknown

@hatesuite - I totally misread your question. It was why too, not why AP drain at all. Likely cause is vestigial code. "Drain everything that's not red" bled over to include . I would doubt very much they put work into adding this here when they haven't added it to AP steals like OBW and Hood yet.

Yes, this inclusion makes IM40 even worse than he already was.

If I was redesigning IM40, I would have Unibeam cost 9, Ballistic Salvo cost 14, and Recharge cost 6 min but takes all your yellow to use with additional costs as you gain more yellow AP for additional effects by adding additional covers. Unibeam and Ballistic Salvo would NOT drain Yellow, Red, or Blue AP. At the respective cover levels they drain 4, 3 or 2 Green Black Purple Teamup. Don't change the damage numbers at all. This brings the cost for Unibeam to 9 to 17 depending on AP and Ballistic Salvo to 14 to 22. Damage per AP then is between 3559/9 = 395.4 and 3559/17 = 209.3 for Unibeam and (2669*3)/14 = 571.9 and (2669*3)/22 = 364 for Ballistic Salvo. This includes the stipulation that boosting to 6 red then matching a red to get 3559 damage on turn 2 isn't actually broken for him, it's strategy. If that stipulation makes you uncomfortable, then make Unibeam cost 10.

For comparison, if you gave 18 to a 5 Thor he would do 4,264 damage and add 6 yellow tiles, Patch would do approx 6,000 - 8,000 with TBTI (assumption is he tanks 50% of the board), and Sentry would do 5,000 team damage plus 1000 damage to his own team (assumption is he destroys 9 red tiles). This would cost 16, 14, 11 AP respectively. Compared to IM40 can do 7118 damage to single targets. Not out of line I think, with what is SUPPOSED to be his best most reliable ability.


This is how I would modify Recharge:

Lerysh wrote:

Ironman 40 AP 6
Recharges weapon systems. Drain's all your yellow. Creates 3 Countdown tiles that activate after 2 turns, restoring 3 Red AP each. Iron Man is then stunned for 2 turns as systems reinitialize.
Level Upgrades
Level 2: Each Countdown tile also restores 3 Blue AP if you had 8 Yellow.
Level 3: Each Countdown tile also restores 2 Green AP if you had 10 Yellow.
Level 4: Each Countdown tile also restores 2 Purple AP if you had 12 Yellow.
Level 5: Each Countdown tile also restores 2 Black AP if you had 14 Yellow.

Takes all your yellow to cast, similar to Ares Onslaught for green, but has a variant effect based on how much yellow you had. May not be enough to push some people off of 5/5/3 but it would put an end to the 5/5/1 builds at the very least.

The idea that IM40 enters some kind of "Recharge Mode" where he stuns himself, and then gets the AP on exit is a good one, but it would have to reduce effectiveness because no chance to break the tiles. I know smart users of IM40 rarely if ever lose a tile anyway, but it has to be considered. Maybe reduce the CDs to 1 but stun IM40 for 1 turn upon activation and not upon receipt of the AP. Still 2 turns to get the AP but IM40 is ready to go as soon as he gets it, and it would give him enough to Unibeam immediately if it cost 9.