Unusable covers for characters at less than 13 covers

Dayv

Jaedenkaal wrote:

It's not that many fewer covers; only 13 out of the 113 you'll eventually need have any color requirement at all, and the first 5 you get don't matter either. So there's really only 8 covers our of 113 where the color really matters.

I haven't done the math, but apparently given a truly random distribution of colors, the average number of pulls it would take to cover a character under the current system is 16. To put that another way, on average three covers are wasted for every fully covered character. The minimum number of covers to do it in is of course 13. And the highest number is of course unlimited, with bad enough luck.

So all we're really asking for here is to let players cover a character, on average, with three fewer covers. They'll still need to find ISO to champ them, and they come away much happier for it.

And if the devs feel like letting people do this every time they want to is a bit too much, they could gate it with currency. Want to apply that 5* cover to another color? Sure, that'll be 20 CP. 4* cover? 10 CP. Etc.

seraphiel

Jaedenkaal wrote:

Inarius wrote:

this would be the ultimate gift to users, which is why they will never implement it as that would mean they'd be getting less money as people won't pull as much from packs, trying to complete those remaining covers

It's not that many fewer covers; only 13 out of the 113 you'll eventually need have any color requirement at all, and the first 5 you get don't matter either. So there's really only 8 covers our of 113 where the color really matters.

But the order also matters. If you somehow get those 113 in the wrong order (say, 7 additional covers for a 2/5/1 Lady Wolverine), that 113 could be 120, or 150, or 200. The first 5 actually matter quite a bit: if they're all the same color (like a 0/0/5 Quake, ahem), you suddenly have a 1/3 chance of getting a cover of that character that's totally useless.

And then the daily rewards that are color-specific just rub it in for some people. They get to watch (for example) a **** Spiderman coming at them for a couple of weeks, knowing there's nothing they'll be able to do but sell it or use up a slot on something that will never be useful.

Jaedenkaal

seraphiel wrote:

But the order also matters. If you somehow get those 113 in the wrong order (say, 7 additional covers for a 2/5/1 Lady Wolverine), that 113 could be 120, or 150, or 200. The first 5 actually matter quite a bit: if they're all the same color (like a 0/0/5 Quake, ahem), you suddenly have a 1/3 chance of getting a cover of that character that's totally useless.

And then the daily rewards that are color-specific just rub it in for some people. They get to watch (for example) a **** Spiderman coming at them for a couple of weeks, knowing there's nothing they'll be able to do but sell it or use up a slot on something that will never be useful.

Oh for sure. I was referring to the color of the covers that you add to the character, not that you get out of packs. The first 5 covers you get can be any color. The color of the next up to 8 covers matters. This is where issue lies. If you don't get those covers in the right color and the right order, you could be pretty screwed for a long time (potentially forever, although that's not likely.) Then once you're over that hump, the color of the next 100 covers, once again, doesn't matter.

So really we're making the same point. The color of the covers you receive (and in what order) are hugely important to one facet of character growth, with huge ramifications on the future growth of that character. And yet the entire mechanic only matters for such a tiny subset of the covers you're actually going to add to that character. So why should it even matter for those covers? Is the mechanic still pulling it's weight? I'd argue no. (as does everyone on the forum, no doubt)

Tryke

5/0/5 Peggy, with another red cover sitting in the queue. It's unfortunate though.

This idea makes too much sense to ever be implemented.

Splurch

Just adding another voice to how frustrating this system is. I've pulled 2 wasp yellow covers in the last few days and my wasp is 5/1/2, no way am I getting the 5 covers I need by the time the yellows expire. Happens to me quite often and having to sell 4* covers when I have enough available ISO to champ a 4* makes me want to just put the game down.

Dayv

2/5/5 Agent Coulson, just need one yellow to champ him. Almost have enough ISO. Just sold the first of five blue and purple Coulson covers in my queue.

The struggle, as they say, is real.

Felonius

Dayv, your suggestion is amazing, and seems so Simple/Obvious. /Vote +1 from me, for sure!

Let me say I have NOT (yet) read all 8 pages of this thread, so maybe this has been talked about already, but even if your suggested feature required a modest cost (say in the ballpark of 50-100HP or 5-10CP), I feel it would TOTALLY be worth it.

Your feature would mean no 4* cover should ever go to waste (other than strictly by choice)... Use unneeded colors to eventually get to 13 covers, and once that 14th cover was found, through regular play (and/or pay), anyone should be able to champ even a L70 4* within two weeks, prior to it expiring. Done. Problem solved.

My 1/1/5 Carol Danvers would LOVE Dayv's suggestion to exist. I've already, bitterly, sold three green covers for her, and I have a 4th sitting in queue now with ~10days left before I'll be forced to sell... I highly doubt I'll get the needed six black/yellow covers in that time, but I can hope.

Agreed, the struggle is real.

seraphiel

And now I get to spend a couple of weeks watching my 7th (at least) unusable Quake roll down my daily reward queue.

It feels less like a reward at this point and more like it's mocking me with its uselessness.

broll

I think this is a pretty obvious solution that shouldn't be that difficult (as it's not that different that the color swapping post-champ). I would think there should be a cost associate to converting these, probably in HP or maybe CP (DEFINITELY NOT ISO)

Agent XLII

I've been thinking about this lately. I get them not liking the idea of colorless covers or an easy way to do this because they wouldn't make money if things were easy.

So what I propose (since they like vaults so damn much) is once you hit 5 in a color, let's take my 4clops for example who is 525 (and has been for forever and A day with at least 7 Red covers sold), instead of only having the option to sell, they implement a personal vault. This vault allows you to add ONLY cover colors of which you have 5 and once you hit x number (I'm thinking 5) you can trade them all in for a colored cover of your choice for that character.

In the event that you cover a character while still having covers in said vault, all covers are removed from the vault and placed back on your vine with 7 days to sell or use OR removed from the vault and auto sold for half their value (Drawbacks for balance)

5 extra covers (especially for older characters) wouldn't be something you could just achieve over night so I don't think this would negatively effect players' spending habits

Jaedenkaal

Agent XLII wrote:

I've been thinking about this lately. I get them not liking the idea of colorless covers or an easy way to do this because they wouldn't make money if things were easy.

So what I propose (since they like vaults so damn much) is once you hit 5 in a color, let's take my 4clops for example who is 525 (and has been for forever and A day with at least 7 Red covers sold), instead of only having the option to sell, they implement a personal vault. This vault allows you to add ONLY cover colors of which you have 5 and once you hit x number (I'm thinking 5) you can trade them all in for a colored cover of your choice for that character.

In the event that you cover a character while still having covers in said vault, all covers are removed from the vault and placed back on your vine with 7 days to sell or use OR removed from the vault and auto sold for half their value (Drawbacks for balance)

5 extra covers (especially for older characters) wouldn't be something you could just achieve over night so I don't think this would negatively effect players' spending habits

That seems really complex, though. Compared to the relative simplicity of many solutions proposed here and elsewhere.

Agent XLII

Jaedenkaal wrote:

That seems really complex, though. Compared to the relative simplicity of many solutions proposed here and elsewhere.

But most of those simple solutions are heavily weighted in favor of the player base. You have to create an alternative that won't drastically reduce players' spending habits or lessen cash flow. Got to find the happy medium, ya know? A personal stash isn't THAT complex.

seraphiel

Agent XLII said:

Jaedenkaal wrote:

That seems really complex, though. Compared to the relative simplicity of many solutions proposed here and elsewhere.

But most of those simple solutions are heavily weighted in favor of the player base. You have to create an alternative that won't drastically reduce players' spending habits or lessen cash flow. Got to find the happy medium, ya know? A personal stash isn't THAT complex.

It seems simpler by far to charge some reasonable amount of command points/gold to shift points around on an existing character. The mechanism is already there for champions, so just switch it on for non-champions and add a point cost. Unlike some other games in this realm, there is no sense that you can be "working on" a particular character unless they happen to have a vault (with a ludicrous 10x minimum draw, ffs.) or the new heroes for hire thing they just added, which for me have all been either way overpriced or something I don't need.

There's this special sense of utter futility in this game that comes from seeing one of your daily rewards coming down the line and knowing you may as well just look at it as 1000 iso.  Both covers I've gotten lately as daily "rewards" have been like this.  Yep, it's a black 4* Punisher.  Oh, you already have him at 5/0/2?  Well, keep looking at it every day for a couple of weeks, and feel punished for having randomly gotten that color capped before filling out the other ones.

I avoid opening legendary tokens because there's such a high probability they'll be unusable.

PuceMoose

I'd love to see some sort of workaround for this. This bit me in the butt tonight - I opened a new legends token tonight. Out of the 45 total covers available in a latest legend, only *one* is unusable to me - Wasp Blue. Sure enough, I drew a Wasp Blue tonight. Wheee! How about the cost of one tier down to change the color of a cover? For example, I could change my Wasp Blue to a Wasp Black by crafting my Wasp Blue + 20 CP. If I decided I wanted my just-pulled OML red to be an OML yellow, 120CP + OML red., etc. That's still enough premium currency to make it a serious decision, and would help prevent at least a few tears (*sniff sniff, my 7/2/1 X-23, 6/1/6 Ant-man, 4/6/1 Wasp, and 1/2/7 Ghost Rider). 

UnsmashableTim

Totally feel your pain. I am an avid collector. Like pokémon, I gotta catch em all... My Miles Morales is and will presumably stay stuck at 5 purple, 5 yellow and ZERO red.  The only way to change this is to get 3*spiderman to lvl 265 or win one as a bonus character, but even then, I'll probably win a purple or yellow...  So depressing. I wouldnt even mind if you could sell covers for (insert character name) tokens and then redeem them for the colour of your choice once you get to the appropriate number of tokens. Alas, Miles Morales may never be championed :.... (

Dayv

My favorite idea these days?  Just let people pay 1/6 the cost of buying a cover outright to move a cover from one power to another on an unchamped character.  Or pay that cost and unlock unlimited cover moves -- until clicking "done" and returning to the normal character view.  Free respec for champs, paid respec for all other characters.  Perfect fix, benefiting both players and the people that like to receive money from them.