Patch Notes - R91 (01/05/16)

ZeiramMR

Even if the patch drops today, I'd expect it will be a few days before the feature goes live.

TxMoose

GrimSkald wrote:

I was just hoping to get ones like, say, Magneto, Luke Cage, Iron First, or Scarlet Witch...

you mean the covers we've all just had to sell because they were about to expire? yeah, selling those sucked. actually the mags covers haven't hit yet - still lots of those.

GrimSkald

Pylgrim wrote:

This thread is now rampant with speculation. Someone just speculated that the feature will be pay-gated and now it's almost taken as word of God. Devs need to /at least/ drop an update or announcement on this asap. Does anyone know how many hours from now will be Monday 9 AM in Massachusetts?

You have to keep in mind that the devs don't really read the forums. Sure, they check things from time to time, but they don't have someone reading these things on a regular basis. So they don't even know our speculation, much less that they "need" to tell us something.

Look, we know the bare bones of the new feature (being able to use extra covers to increase the max level of characters, possibly with other benefits like being able to respec,) but we have no idea what else it will require. I myself do think it's likely that it will require the expenditure of some resource to convert a normal character to a "champion." Whether that is ISO, HP, or CP, and how much, I can't say. I'd think that CP is most likely (it's the high end resource,) but HP and even ISO are a distinct possibility.

If it doesn't require a resource, then all it will do is create a new level progression for all characters - you'll make a character a "Champion" as soon as you max it out and get an extra cover. It also doesn't enhance their income streams (save for people who spend HP to buy cover packs, I suppose.) That's why I think it will require something - it prevents the players from just making all their characters "Champions" and encourages people to spend money. I don't say that with resentment - speaking for myself I'll only be pissed if the requirement to make a character a Champion is too high (say, over 10 CP or 500 HP for a 3*)

Unless the new feature is postponed, we'll know in a day or two. Heck, unless the new feature is postponed, you can open your token packs - any character you draw will still be around when the feature is implimented. I'm waiting for official word, myself.

Malcrof

Ok, now that info is live in the presses, please use viewtopic.php?f=7&t=37503 for fun with the new feature!

simonsez

GrimSkald wrote:

You have to keep in mind that the devs don't really read the forums. Sure, they check things from time to time, but they don't have someone reading these things on a regular basis.

Hell, the devs treat this place like Todd Margaret's apartment. (trust me, to the 6 people who ever watched that show, that line was f'ing hilarious)

slidecage

i say nothing till thursday at the soonest

lukewin

tanis3303 wrote:

Y'all realize they're gonna pay-gate this feature, right? Probably going to be very high cost too. My guess is 10-15 CP or 500 HP or 50,000 ISO for 3*s and double that for 4*s. We're all sitting on hoards of tokens and que covers (myself included) and when it's released, we're realistically only going to be able to apply it to a small handful of characters before our resources are depleted. Because you know...it's fun to have to pick and choose which characters to keep, and fun to throw away the rest.

You almost nailed it with your guesses, almost.

atomzed

slidecage wrote:

i say nothing till thursday at the soonest

Damn I have a vision cover that is expiring in 1 day time and Cmag covers expiring in 2 days time....

dr tinykittylove

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i say nothing till thursday at the soonest

Damn I have a vision cover that is expiring in 1 day time and Cmag covers expiring in 2 days time....

I want the update to be now!!!

LordXberk

dr tinykittylove wrote:

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i say nothing till thursday at the soonest

Damn I have a vision cover that is expiring in 1 day time and Cmag covers expiring in 2 days time....

I want the update to be now!!!

They really should give us an idea of when the update will roll out. The waiting is killing me.

TxMoose

LordXberk wrote:

They really should give us an idea of when the update will roll out. The waiting is killing me.

as we all have ~21 hrs on the BP black from his ddq day. I'd love to see this hit by the end of the day. after that is a slew of mags covers from made man. I'm guessing all of our queues are the same.

GrimSkald

lukewin wrote:

tanis3303 wrote:

Y'all realize they're gonna pay-gate this feature, right? Probably going to be very high cost too. My guess is 10-15 CP or 500 HP or 50,000 ISO for 3*s and double that for 4*s. We're all sitting on hoards of tokens and que covers (myself included) and when it's released, we're realistically only going to be able to apply it to a small handful of characters before our resources are depleted. Because you know...it's fun to have to pick and choose which characters to keep, and fun to throw away the rest.

You almost nailed it with your guesses, almost.

Actually, the cost is surprisingly modest. According to the video, 5k-20k. According to the screenshots on the other interview, 5k for a 2* 7.5k for a 3*, we can assume 20k for a 5* (yeah, that's going to happen to anyone other than KD anytime soon,) so probably 10k, maybe 15k for a 4*. I can generate that in a good day of playing, easily.

Much better than I was expecting. Now the fact that every cover only adds one level makes it a bit worse, but ehh, so the actual level increases are going to be slow. I can live with that.

tanis3303

GrimSkald wrote:

Much better than I was expecting. Now the fact that every cover only adds one level makes it a bit worse, but ehh, so the actual level increases are going to be slow. I can live with that.

Same here. I figured my estimate was on the low end, honestly. I have all the 2*s, all the 3*s and several top tier 4*s all maxed out and 300,000 iso in the bank. When does it go live???

BlackSheep101

Linkster79 wrote:

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

Features will only ever be added that will increase revenue...

You can increase revenue by attracting new players and preventing existing customers from leaving, too.

So now that we have details, is everyone taking the "sky is falling" stance going to contort logic to make the modest iso cost to champion a character fit the expectation that we'll all be hugely disappointed by the new feature? Because it looks like I'll be able to champion a whole bunch of characters on day 1 and the rewards from dumping extra covers into them will more than make up for the initial cost.

GrimSkald

BlackSheep101 wrote:

So now that we have details, is everyone taking the "sky is falling" stance going to contort logic to make the modest iso cost to champion a character fit the expectation that we'll all be hugely disappointed by the new feature? Because it looks like I'll be able to champion a whole bunch of characters on day 1 and the rewards from dumping extra covers into them will more than make up for the initial cost.

Well, the rewards are probably not going to explicitely recoup the Iso (particularly since burning the covers give you Iso,) but the other rewards make up for that very nicely, I think. How much Iso is a unopened Legendary token worth? If it's something you need, that's a hell of a lot. HP too.

The other thing the naysayers can pick on is that every cover adds one only level. That means it's going to be a bit to make a real difference in the 2*s, a good bit in the 3*s, and a really effing long time for the 4*s. The difference between a level 94 and a level 100 OBW isn't that much, after all, similarly a 275 IMHB won't make me hit "skip." Of course, the flipside of that is we won't see overleveled characters on other people's rosters any time soon. I love how on the other thread some people were saying that a Champion 5* would be terrifying. That's true, but considering the cost of a max 5* (if one was to whale it,) is around 13K, the cost of a max champion 5* is that multiplied by nine.

Speaking for myself, the relatively low cost and the other features of the system have me excited. Being able to respec at will can make for some very interesting combos, and the fact that my 3*s will start leveling up to meet my 4*s also makes me really start thinking of the possibilities...

Unknown

BlackSheep101 wrote:

So now that we have details, is everyone taking the "sky is falling" stance going to contort logic to make the modest iso cost to champion a character fit the expectation that we'll all be hugely disappointed by the new feature?

I won't quite go to "sky is falling", but I think it's worth pointing out that the practical cost of championing many of the characters will be much, much more than 5K-20K for most players. Why? Because most players have an ISO shortage already and therefore haven't max-leveled their **** 2*s, 3*s, and 4*s.

I've got all 2*s max covered and rostered, but only ~6 at lvl 94. The rest are at lvl 15 still, just as essential filler. Likewise in 3* tier I have only 5 max leveled, and nearly everyone else at 120. They're not all max covered yet, but even if I magically got all the covers I needed immediately, I couldn't max them to pay 7.5K to champion them. Especially if I ever want to build my 4* roster, I have to keep hoarding ISO for those levels rather than spending it on leveling Rags.

2* costs ~70k Iso to max level. 3* from 120 to 166 costs ~97K. So for most players, you have to add that cost when considering whether or not to champion a character.

Of course whales and vets with everyone max leveled won't care. And of course all of the 'good' characters that are maxed anyway will be championed immediately. But I forsee that this will create an even greater divide between good and bad characters, because the good ones will get championed and keep getting better, while the bad ones will be left behind due to ISO cost just to max them (not just the extra few K for the champion tag).

Bryan Lambert

Sundance2112 wrote:

Of course whales and vets with everyone max leveled won't care. And of course all of the 'good' characters that are maxed anyway will be championed immediately. But I forsee that this will create an even greater divide between good and bad characters, because the good ones will get championed and keep getting better, while the bad ones will be left behind due to ISO cost just to max them (not just the extra few K for the champion tag).

This is true, but at the same time, these kind of resource management decisions are most of the gameplay in MPQ. This just adds a whole new layer of resource management decisions. Pre-championing, you either needed a cover or you sold it. Now you have to decide which covers to keep for championing, which covers to sell for ISO, whether to use your ISO for championing characters or maxing others.

I mean, yeah, I could certainly live with an increase in the ISO flow, and this seems like a small net decrease, combined with more things to spend it on, and I hope that gets addressed. And sure, they hinted we should hoard covers, but if they'd hinted we should hoard ISO I might not have pumped a bunch of levels into Psylocke for Fresh Cut. But on its own, I approve of the idea of giving us more decisions to make, because it makes the gameplay richer.

Unknown

Bryan Lambert wrote:

Sundance2112 wrote:

I approve of the idea of giving us more decisions to make, because it makes the gameplay richer.

I agree with you on that. But it's only richer if we have the information to actually inform our decision. Do you think we'll be able to preview the entire list of a character's champion rewards before deciding what to do? I don't think so. Of course we'll have wikis and forum posts, but no actual help from D3, I suspect.

As a player, I'm looking forward to this feature because I'll champion my good ones and then let the dust settle before worrying about others. I'm never going to have enough 3* covers to fully champion anyone anyway, still scraping to get to 13 covers for many of them, let alone 100 extra covers. So it's all good for me personally in terms of having some new things to do in the game.

But from a game perspective, I believe this will do 2 big things: Increase revenue, and decrease player base.

1) Obviously this will put pressure on folks to max level their characters so they can get better rewards and also so they can compete with others who champion their characters. Even if few people are crazy enough to directly buy ISO at such horrible exchange rates, I can see the logic in buying the 13th cover for someone with a bad distribution, just to champion and then re-assign covers as desired. Overall I'm pretty sure this will increase revenue for D3.

2) But new players without 113 3* covers are now going to be completely shut out of PvP after a few months. The difference between a 266 3* cyc and a 120 3*colossus (my first fully covered 3* just due to the way tokens fell) will become insurmountable. It won't be enough anymore to grow your roster, you'll have to grow the "best" characters only. No more breadth due to exacerbated ISO shortages. No ability to hit 800 due to tougher competition. Forget 1000 for any help with 4* transition. Etc. etc. etc.

In the short-term, I think this feature will be fun, but I also think it makes everything that's bad about MPQ worse via exaggerated disparity between already-there players and transitioning players.

BlackSheep101

Sundance2112 wrote:

I won't quite go to "sky is falling", but I think it's worth pointing out that the practical cost of championing many of the characters will be much, much more than 5K-20K for most players. Why? Because most players have an ISO shortage already and therefore haven't max-leveled their **** 2*s, 3*s, and 4*s.

People act like you get nothing for maxing out a character's level. They get stronger when you level them. It's not impossible to do, either, as my dozen+ maxed 3*s will attest. I don't care if I can't champion every single character on my roster on day one. I'm looking forward to the ones I can, and will look into bringing the rest up down the road.

Nick441234

BlackSheep101 wrote:

Sundance2112 wrote:

I won't quite go to "sky is falling", but I think it's worth pointing out that the practical cost of championing many of the characters will be much, much more than 5K-20K for most players. Why? Because most players have an ISO shortage already and therefore haven't max-leveled their **** 2*s, 3*s, and 4*s.

People act like you get nothing for maxing out a character's level. They get stronger when you level them. It's not impossible to do, either, as my dozen+ maxed 3*s will attest. I don't care if I can't champion every single character on my roster on day one. I'm looking forward to the ones I can, and will look into bringing the rest up down the road.

Exactly right. Too many people want things right this second. This game isn't designed to give you everything instantly, if you cant handle that, its probably best to play a different game.