Who should be next in line for balancing?

Phaserhawk

OBW is perfect, actually one of the better balanced characters, you cant fault her for being too good, it's that others aren't good enough. If you don't take care of OBW right away and she gets her purple off on you, yeah, it sucks and you are going to have some problems, I had a bad one where the AI got an unbelievable cascade their OBW got enough to go purple, then blue and heal, argghhh, I still won, and wasn't upset as she did what she was suppose to, it was the cascade that killed me. I think Captain and Hawkeye need to get moved up, I think Magneto Marvel Now needs a little love, and Modern Storm needs either her yellow buffed or the cost of green and blue to go down just a bit. Moonstone could use some more loving, Ares is perfect, Thor is perfect, Wolvie needs his healing tweaked (get rid of that 50% clause), Bullseye and Daken need a third skill and Bullseye needs a complete overhaul, and of course BagMan

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

OBW is perfect, actually one of the better balanced characters, you cant fault her for being too good, it's that others aren't good enough. If you don't take care of OBW right away and she gets her purple off on you, yeah, it sucks and you are going to have some problems, I had a bad one where the AI got an unbelievable cascade their OBW got enough to go purple, then blue and heal, argghhh, I still won, and wasn't upset as she did what she was suppose to, it was the cascade that killed me. I think Captain and Hawkeye need to get moved up, I think Magneto Marvel Now needs a little love, and Modern Storm needs either her yellow buffed or the cost of green and blue to go down just a bit. Moonstone could use some more loving, Ares is perfect, Thor is perfect, Wolvie needs his healing tweaked (get rid of that 50% clause), Bullseye and Daken need a third skill and Bullseye needs a complete overhaul, and of course BagMan

Problem being is that they have already decided where power levels should be and brought a lot of other characters to it. If you were to take the steps now to move every1 to her level you would literally have to tweak like 25+ covers. It's a little too late for that option. A very slight tweak like what was mentioned a few posts back, make it to where she can only steal 3 of each, maybe cap it out at 14 ap stolen though. She would still be very useful but not able to take 24 ap from the opponent. That's a 48 ap turnaround when she does that. A 48 ap turnaround off an 11ap? Skill.

@phantron yeah I agree with most of what you said there. Kinda fun having the 1* like that but they are deceptively strong too. Haha. A lvl 230 storm / widow / jugg 1 star team would wreck people. Haha!

Unknown

Psykopathic wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

OBW is perfect, actually one of the better balanced characters, you cant fault her for being too good, it's that others aren't good enough. If you don't take care of OBW right away and she gets her purple off on you, yeah, it sucks and you are going to have some problems, I had a bad one where the AI got an unbelievable cascade their OBW got enough to go purple, then blue and heal, argghhh, I still won, and wasn't upset as she did what she was suppose to, it was the cascade that killed me. I think Captain and Hawkeye need to get moved up, I think Magneto Marvel Now needs a little love, and Modern Storm needs either her yellow buffed or the cost of green and blue to go down just a bit. Moonstone could use some more loving, Ares is perfect, Thor is perfect, Wolvie needs his healing tweaked (get rid of that 50% clause), Bullseye and Daken need a third skill and Bullseye needs a complete overhaul, and of course BagMan

Problem being is that they have already decided where power levels should be and brought a lot of other characters to it. If you were to take the steps now to move every1 to her level you would literally have to tweak like 25+ covers. It's a little too late for that option. A very slight tweak like what was mentioned a few posts back, make it to where she can only steal 3 of each, maybe cap it out at 14 ap stolen though. She would still be very useful but not able to take 24 ap from the opponent. That's a 48 ap turnaround when she does that. A 48 ap turnaround off an 11ap? Skill.

@phantron yeah I agree with most of what you said there. Kinda fun having the 1* like that but they are deceptively strong too. Haha. A lvl 230 storm / widow / jugg 1 star team would wreck people. Haha!

If Modern Storm simply scaled to level 230 and was released as a 4* character, everyone will cry total P2W and that'd be totally justified. You might as well give up if you have to face a Storm with say 5K HP (which is less than what IW has) and exactly the same abilities as she currently has. I realize it's not a huge priority, but it just feels weird that I'm still avoiding team with Modern Storm in it over say, a level 141 Punisher. Sure I don't mind if 1* are viable at the high end, but right now I'm more afraid of Modern Storm than most level 141 characters and that's just not right.

For OBW, I think most people don't notice how bad it is because we're still used to the game where 3 AP is enough to use a major move. Aggressive Recon doesn't do much to the old 3 AP Feral Claws, but sure affects the new one, and it'll get increasingly more powerful as all the cheap AP moves are almost certain to be nerfed in the future. You got to bite the bullet here with OBW and The Hood. They might have been fine back when games ended on turn 2, but that's not how the current games are anymore. Also with OBW, currently there is also the 'at least you're not facing Spiderman' factor to make her seem balanced, but one broken character does not justify another broken character.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

OBW is perfect, actually one of the better balanced characters, you cant fault her for being too good, it's that others aren't good enough. If you don't take care of OBW right away and she gets her purple off on you, yeah, it sucks and you are going to have some problems, I had a bad one where the AI got an unbelievable cascade their OBW got enough to go purple, then blue and heal, argghhh, I still won, and wasn't upset as she did what she was suppose to, it was the cascade that killed me. I think Captain and Hawkeye need to get moved up, I think Magneto Marvel Now needs a little love, and Modern Storm needs either her yellow buffed or the cost of green and blue to go down just a bit. Moonstone could use some more loving, Ares is perfect, Thor is perfect, Wolvie needs his healing tweaked (get rid of that 50% clause), Bullseye and Daken need a third skill and Bullseye needs a complete overhaul, and of course BagMan

Problem being is that they have already decided where power levels should be and brought a lot of other characters to it. If you were to take the steps now to move every1 to her level you would literally have to tweak like 25+ covers. It's a little too late for that option. A very slight tweak like what was mentioned a few posts back, make it to where she can only steal 3 of each, maybe cap it out at 14 ap stolen though. She would still be very useful but not able to take 24 ap from the opponent. That's a 48 ap turnaround when she does that. A 48 ap turnaround off an 11ap? Skill.

@phantron yeah I agree with most of what you said there. Kinda fun having the 1* like that but they are deceptively strong too. Haha. A lvl 230 storm / widow / jugg 1 star team would wreck people. Haha!

If Modern Storm simply scaled to level 230 and was released as a 4* character, everyone will cry total P2W and that'd be totally justified. You might as well give up if you have to face a Storm with say 5K HP (which is less than what IW has) and exactly the same abilities as she currently has. I realize it's not a huge priority, but it just feels weird that I'm still avoiding team with Modern Storm in it over say, a level 141 Punisher. Sure I don't mind if 1* are viable at the high end, but right now I'm more afraid of Modern Storm than most level 141 characters and that's just not right.

For OBW, I think most people don't notice how bad it is because we're still used to the game where 3 AP is enough to use a major move. Aggressive Recon doesn't do much to the old 3 AP Feral Claws, but sure affects the new one, and it'll get increasingly more powerful as all the cheap AP moves are almost certain to be nerfed in the future. You got to bite the bullet here with OBW and The Hood. They might have been fine back when games ended on turn 2, but that's not how the current games are anymore. Also with OBW, currently there is also the 'at least you're not facing Spiderman' factor to make her seem balanced, but one broken character does not justify another broken character.

The only reason why I'm not too scared of modern storm is she is a one shot kill with most of the heavy hitters. Hulk and Classic Storm on the other hand have to be handles with gloves.

Unknown

A seriously comparison of OBW to other similar characters.

Take the Hood. OBW lvl 5 purple takes four turns to generate enough AP and steals up to 24 AP. The Hood lvl 5 blue is going to also steal up 24 AP over 4 turns. However with both at lvl 85 OBW has 500 more hit points, a heal + countdown reset and steals with every blue, purple, black match. Compared to the Hood who has a yellow you will likely only get off once a fight that mostly just generates AP and a friendly countdown reducer. Which one seems better ? And given that 3* are harder to obtain / more expensive shouldn’t the 3* be better?

Battery Comparison:
3* Hood: 24AP/4 turns = 6AP/Turn
2* OBW: 24AP/4 turns = 6AP/Turn
1* MBW: 24AP/6 turns = 4AP/Turn

All of this assumes max enemy AP however since OBW, MBW, Hood all operate on the similar premises I think the comparison is fair. OBW should likely be at 5AP/turn. To fix this all they would need to do is increase the cost of her purple at lvl 5 to 13AP. It would then make sense that at lvl 3 purple it would be 11AP. A very Minor nerf.

In addition Assuming enemy has 3 purple AP, you will actually be getting 4 AP per match so it then takes 3 turn to have enough AP currently.
2* OBW: 24AP/3 turns = 8AP/Turn
IMO this is why most people view her as OP. If you are collecting purple AP yourself alot of times all you end up doing is getting her access to her steal faster.

This all begs the question is OBW/Hood/Spidey the best defense. Stuns, heals, and alot of steals.

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

A seriously comparison of OBW to other similar characters.

Take the Hood. OBW lvl 5 purple takes four turns to generate enough AP and steals up to 24 AP. The Hood lvl 5 blue is going to also steal up 24 AP over 4 turns. However with both at lvl 85 OBW has 500 more hit points, a heal + countdown reset and steals with every blue, purple, black match. Compared to the Hood who has a yellow you will likely only get off once a fight that mostly just generates AP and a friendly countdown reducer. Which one seems better ? And given that 3* are harder to obtain / more expensive shouldn’t the 3* be better?

Battery Comparison:
3* Hood: 24AP/4 turns = 6AP/Turn
2* OBW: 24AP/4 turns = 6AP/Turn
1* MBW: 24AP/6 turns = 4AP/Turn

All of this assumes max enemy AP however since OBW, MBW, Hood all operate on the similar premises I think the comparison is fair. OBW should likely be at 5AP/turn. To fix this all they would need to do is increase the cost of her purple at lvl 5 to 13AP. It would then make sense that at lvl 3 purple it would be 11AP. A very Minor nerf.

In addition Assuming enemy has 3 purple AP, you will actually be getting 4 AP per match so it then takes 3 turn to have enough AP currently.
2* OBW: 24AP/3 turns = 8AP/Turn
IMO this is why most people view her as OP. If you are collecting purple AP yourself alot of times all you end up doing is getting her access to her steal faster.

This all begs the question is OBW/Hood/Spidey the best defense. Stuns, heals, and alot of steals.

No, you still have to have a character that takes time to kill and does direct damage. The best defensive team would be something like Hulk, Thor and Spidey/OBW/CS.

Unknown

It's been a while since any change was implemented with covers. Seems like 1 is gonna hit us pretty soon.
My guess is next Friday.

DD-The-Mighty

Psykopathic wrote:

It's been a while since any change was implemented with covers. Seems like 1 is gonna hit us pretty soon.
My guess is next Friday.

I was not here for the change on covers. What were they?

Unknown

DD-The-Mighty wrote:

Psykopathic wrote:

It's been a while since any change was implemented with covers. Seems like 1 is gonna hit us pretty soon.
My guess is next Friday.

I was not here for the change on covers. What were they?

I meant like how rag and Loki and storm c and every 1 got changed. I worded it wrong I guess.
When the next cover will be balanced***

Spencer75

Rorex wrote:

A seriously comparison of OBW to other similar characters.

Take the Hood. OBW lvl 5 purple takes four turns to generate enough AP and steals up to 24 AP. The Hood lvl 5 blue is going to also steal up 24 AP over 4 turns. However with both at lvl 85 OBW has 500 more hit points, a heal + countdown reset and steals with every blue, purple, black match. Compared to the Hood who has a yellow you will likely only get off once a fight that mostly just generates AP and a friendly countdown reducer. Which one seems better ? And given that 3* are harder to obtain / more expensive shouldn’t the 3* be better?

Battery Comparison:
3* Hood: 24AP/4 turns = 6AP/Turn
2* OBW: 24AP/4 turns = 6AP/Turn
1* MBW: 24AP/6 turns = 4AP/Turn

All of this assumes max enemy AP however since OBW, MBW, Hood all operate on the similar premises I think the comparison is fair. OBW should likely be at 5AP/turn. To fix this all they would need to do is increase the cost of her purple at lvl 5 to 13AP. It would then make sense that at lvl 3 purple it would be 11AP. A very Minor nerf.

In addition Assuming enemy has 3 purple AP, you will actually be getting 4 AP per match so it then takes 3 turn to have enough AP currently.
2* OBW: 24AP/3 turns = 8AP/Turn
IMO this is why most people view her as OP. If you are collecting purple AP yourself alot of times all you end up doing is getting her access to her steal faster.

This all begs the question is OBW/Hood/Spidey the best defense. Stuns, heals, and alot of steals.

The difference between the hood and OBW here is that OBW has to steal AP thru matches and the hood steals his passively

If you don't get enough people to match OBW simply won't generate AP all that well

The board literally doesn't matter with the hood (except for having too many environmental tiles, but the AI usually takes care of that for you)

Like speed in baseball, the hood never slumps

Regardless why are we talking about maximum AP steal scenarios when those almost never happen, let's talk about the norm, more likely scenarios

Unknown

Rorex wrote:

However with both at lvl 85 OBW has 500 more hit points, a heal + countdown reset and steals with every blue, purple, black match.

A level 85 3* is weaker than a level 85 2*. If you're going to compare them, it should be at 100 where they're stat-equivalent or 141 where the 3* is capped. No comment regarding anything else, just inappropriate comparisons because a lot of people apparently don't understand this perturb me. I'm not suggesting anyone has to think it's a good idea, just that you need to look at how level progression differs with rarity before trying to compare different-*'d characters.

I like the fact they leave plainly broken abilities on 1*s because the level cap means they can. Can't wait for lv230 M.Storm in the new PvE.

Unknown

With OBW she steaks whatever color the enemy has. If the enemy gathers ap they don't need they can't do anything. If she steals with 5 pink she steals some of everything effectively halting every team members ability of every color. Whether they gathered it or not they don't have much of it now. Out of those 24 ap stolen I typically manage 12-16 of them.

With The Hood you typically steal about 2ap per turn. You can't control which ones except by trying to manipulate the board, but it's faster just to grab the color you need. If your opponent is grabbing colors they need it keeps them somewhat off the board and keeps them from getting stolen to an extent, this is not as much the case because of the AI. Point being he still only gets about 8 AP stolen in 4 rounds. OBW seems to average 12-14.

Would probably be better if I would take time and wrote all the exacts down but this is how it seems to me after playing with both extensively and very closely watching their steals. Also helps that I can time OBW steals to when they will help me, like most skills in this game. The Hood has the passive skill so yes "he's always working", but he's always working alone so you have no control over him.

kensterr

Modern Storm - use +3 red/yellow AP boost with Juggernaut, match reds 3 more times, 2HKO with Headbutt. That's my only strategy dealing with her. >.<

Unknown

Veracity wrote:

Rorex wrote:

However with both at lvl 85 OBW has 500 more hit points, a heal + countdown reset and steals with every blue, purple, black match.

A level 85 3* is weaker than a level 85 2*. If you're going to compare them, it should be at 100 where they're stat-equivalent or 141 where the 3* is capped. No comment regarding anything else, just inappropriate comparisons because a lot of people apparently don't understand this perturb me. I'm not suggesting anyone has to think it's a good idea, just that you need to look at how level progression differs with rarity before trying to compare different-*'d characters.

I like the fact they leave plainly broken abilities on 1*s because the level cap means they can. Can't wait for lv230 M.Storm in the new PvE.

I complete disagree with your premise. You have to compare Characters with equal stats? That make no sense what would be the point. I do think however that perhaps a more fair comparision is characters with similiar ISO investment. In which case the Hood will be level 92 when you have invested as much ISO as you would to level OBW to lvl 85. Which means OBW still has 300 more HP, a heal + countdown reset and steals with every blue, purple, black match. Of course this could be an issue with the Hood and not OBW. After all he has some of the lowest HP/level in the game second only to IW.

Unknown

Spencer75 wrote:

The difference between the hood and OBW here is that OBW has to steal AP thru matches and the hood steals his passively

If you don't get enough people to match OBW simply won't generate AP all that well

The board literally doesn't matter with the hood (except for having too many environmental tiles, but the AI usually takes care of that for you)

Like speed in baseball, the hood never slumps

Regardless why are we talking about maximum AP steal scenarios when those almost never happen, let's talk about the norm, more likely scenarios

I get what your saying but disagree. First OBW steals in two ways thru matches (black skill) and her purple skill. I wasn't even comparing OBW match steals to the Hood, what I was comparing was her purple skill steal vs Hood passive Blue. In addition while OBW is going to steal whatever your opponent is collecting the Hood may not. By that I mean if your opponent is really going hard for a paticular AP color its unlikely that 9 will exist on the board meaning the Hood wont steal them while OBW will. Also its impossible to talk about the norm without huge amounts of statisical data collection and then tons of adjustments to take into consideration the paticular teams your facing. For example OBW doing a steal right after IM40's countdowns go off is going to yeild better results then say against a team with cheap AP skills. Also what turn it is going to have a large effect on the amount stolen. Obviously your going to steal more AP on say turn 5 vs turn 3 because your opponent has had more time to collect AP. Therefore its much easier to speak about potential and as I have shown all thing considered OBW has the potential to effectively steal 8AP/turn (24 ap after 3 turns) while the Hood can only steal 6AP/turn.

Unknown

I can almost guarntee that post Spidey Nerf OBW will assume pre-nerf Ragnarok status, present on almost every team. The synergy between her abilities is only matched by Thor, she has one of the two heal abilities in the game, and is undeniably the ultimate utility character.

Anyone who doesn't agree with that statement is flatout lying to themselves. And since the developers are trying to encourage team variation the only way I see her not getting a little bit of a nerf is if that start introducing more healers.

Unknown

Devs need nerfing so that they might stop ballsing events up.

Unknown

I've been playing with The Hood a lot during this simulator Pve tourney. I think his only problem is his 3rd ability is Garbo being no one uses timer tiles. I mean you could pair it with im40's yellow but that seems like a waste. Other than that 2* mags only would get any benefit.

I feel if they want diversity from the 13/15 skill mechanic then it should be a tough decision on which skills to take to 5. At this point with The Hood it's a very very obvious leave black at 3 IMO. I was thinking to fit into his character pretty well they could change the black skill to where it did not effect timers at all. Instead it would steal 1 of each ap + dealing x damage as it dies now.


Daredevil has some really cool powers but here's his issue. 3 trap powers on the same cover just doesn't work. It's a cool mechanic but I think 1 per cover is fine. I already mentioned a trap being a good 3rd for Dr D. I think Daredevil needs some acrobatic stuff or a move that places a tile on the board and as long as it remains enemies do -20% damage. Or something like that. He needs at least 1 move that's gonna have guaranteed effect though.


Loki could have a trap or a direct attack as a 3rd. Either would probably work fine.

Ragnarok could have a tanking ability as a 3rd. Places a tile on board. As long as tile remains ragnarok will be at the front of the line up. As the move scales ragnarok could get a 10/20% damage reduction. Aoe moves would still effect while team. Rag would gain a small amount if health upon casting.

Unknown

Let's value red AP at 200 damage (Adamantium Slash beats that), green AP at 200 damage (Ares does that damage, at risk to himself), and rest at 100 AP. Aggressive Recon can net you 5300 damage worth of APs if it stole 4 of each color (-3200 to them, +3200 to you, and cost you 1100 potential damage in purple).

Likewise say The Hood steal 2 random AP each turn, that's a turn around of 533 damage per turn based on the above numbers.

Yes sometimes you don't get as much and sometimes you might have no use for certain colors, but in general it is just not very hard to convert AP back to an equivalent damage.

Now the AP steal abilities have problem against characters who can get rid of their AP quickly, but we can be pretty sure you won't have ultra cheap costing abilities after the balance is done. Someone like Punisher is relatively quick not counting the guys on the balance block, but even he needs 3 matches of a color before he can get rid of any AP.

I'm pretty sure just like Daredevil establishes the ceiling of how good a stun can be, Psylocke will also establish a ceiling for how good AP steal abilities can be. Unless she steals 30 AP of every color at level 5, the ceiling for AP steal is going to be rather low once Psylocke comes in.

over_clocked

Stop implying that oBW needs a nerf, plenty of people built her 5-5-3 and don't complain; the only thing devs are admitting isn't working properly is the extra Espionage damage. 8 ap ain't cheap because the opponent rarely needs purple, so you have to make 3 matches alright. And you always have to compromise between being able to steal fast or between denying the opponent some other cheap moves even sooner than that. 6 green for Feral claws or 5 red for Mistress ring any bells? Never mind the soon to be fixed Mags and Spidey.
oBW isn't a happy steal it all solution. She's squishy and she is easily countered by another oBW. Like I said if there is a lower limit at 11 purple for recon, the battles with 2 oBW in them would become dragged out.