Who should be next in line for balancing?

Unknown

Honestly if they changed Thor and OBW to 3* and Loki and IM40 to 2*, things would be about right

Unknown

I said this in the thread when Thorverine was first nerfed, but I thought that was a mistake. Were they good? Sure. Were they overused? For now. The bottom line was that they were overused because there were so few characters to really choose from. At the time of their nerf there was 30 characters? Of those 30, 2 were 4* so most people didn't have them or didn't have them powered up. Most of the 1* aren't usable in tournaments outside of maybe BW & M Storm combo. And the game hasn't been around long enough for most people to have 3* characters or had time to level them up. So of course there would be some 2* characters that rose to the top. If they had waited a year and those characters were still dominating, then they should look into "funbalancing" them. But it was way too early to make that call. Especially since even at level 85 they were both very beatable.
If they want to buff some characters, fine. But nerfing should be the last possible resort. Adding new characters is the best way to get diversity in the team building. And that's what should be the focus.

over_clocked

Vector Mangler wrote:

Group healing is so insanely useful in the world of limited health packs that any character with a group heal is going to be super popular no matter what. If they added a group heal to 1* Hawkeye tomorrow and didn't change anything else, he'd still rocket up the charts in terms of popularity. You'd see him everywhere on low level teams.

Well what do you know. Back when I ran low low leveled mStorm, mBW and cHawkeye for Prologue, Hawkeye indeed was my group healer. Accumulate some city env. AP with matches and Mistress (19 is enough), then place one crit between 2 city env. tiles, and bam, you have a sammich. You could realistically do so twice or more during a hard prolonged fight with mooks. It wasn't much but I could usually finish my fights at full health with no Spider-Man or oBW.

NorthernPolarity

Tolken wrote:

OBW does not need nerfing for only one reason:

The only reason anyone uses her is her healing.

She could be Red/ Green / Yellow and if one of those had healing, she'd still be used.
Her purple could be entirely removed or her black's passive steal removed....if she still heals she'd still be used.
The main reason you are now seeing even more OBW's than previously is A-Wolvie's healing nerf.

The only REAL solution to removing the overuse of OBW is simply: Create more healers.

Now as to whom I believe need's a look at (that isn't on the list already)
#1 Bagman (He's a frigging iso trap hero for new players who don't realize how bad he is yet)

#2 All Heroes that only have 2 abilites. Those two abilities either have to be ridiculous or the character will not be used.

This isn't true at all. The reason why OBW is used is she has 3 very relevant abilities in the three colors that aren't used by the 3 most powerful characters in the 2* roster (Ares/Wolvie/Thor). I have no idea why you think that her purple/black are weak compared to her blue: purple is arguably even stronger than her blue just because of how it accelerates your abilities while denying your opponents. Black basically doubles strike tile efficiency on her 3 colors, which is an extremely useful as well. If she was Red / Green / Yellow, she would definitely see less play just because of the overlap that exists between her and these characters.

NorthernPolarity

timber wrote:

I said this in the thread when Thorverine was first nerfed, but I thought that was a mistake. Were they good? Sure. Were they overused? For now. The bottom line was that they were overused because there were so few characters to really choose from. At the time of their nerf there was 30 characters? Of those 30, 2 were 4* so most people didn't have them or didn't have them powered up. Most of the 1* aren't usable in tournaments outside of maybe BW & M Storm combo. And the game hasn't been around long enough for most people to have 3* characters or had time to level them up. So of course there would be some 2* characters that rose to the top. If they had waited a year and those characters were still dominating, then they should look into "funbalancing" them. But it was way too early to make that call. Especially since even at level 85 they were both very beatable.
If they want to buff some characters, fine. But nerfing should be the last possible resort. Adding new characters is the best way to get diversity in the team building. And that's what should be the focus.

When a 2* character's potential damage output is greater than a maxed level 3* (wolvies strike tiles), you knew there was a major problem at hand. While the 2* roster is still limited to them, the reason why they were nerfed was due to their power level relative to 3* characters, which I thought was perfectly justified.

Unknown

Obviously the only people that want Spidey nerfed don't have him. But seriously, what is the big deal anyway? Are you losing to teams with him?
If you can't beat teams with Spidey then you either:
a) have a weaker team than the one you're battling
b) have a weaker mind than the AI

So....which is it?

Unknown

I believe and thr devs believe heavily is statistics to determine the nerfs. They have a goal in mind and will slowly trim things outside of that line (both buffs and nerfs). The questions for obw are: 1. Does her ap.stealing fit the ap stolen per an ap ratio d3 is looking for and 2: is the strike tile double dip something they wanted.

I don't know, but @8 purple she grabs 3 ap of 5 colors for 8/15 for a 1.875 ap stolen.to.ap used ratio. That doesn't seem exorbitant at a glance. The heal is fine and there really are no healing comparisons. So the last power is espionage. To me, the issue isn't double dipping on strike tiles but on how MUCH she can possibly double dip. A boosted patch dropping 6 300 damage strike tiles and her damage output is insane. Easy way to stop this is to simply cap how high she can double dip or to change the power to not double dip bit do more base damage.

So to me,.the only appropriate nerf if any would be to lower the MAX output of her double dipping on strike tiles. That said, she is a defensive liability unless the opponent cascades purple early and she gets a steal or two out. Offensively she outs herself out there in order to match which I think is a fair tradeoff for non-support like damage, though that damage might need a little trimming at the top. She sees so much use because black and purple.are rather scarce.colors.

@psycko... They actually generally seem to.add one character every 2 weeks or so. Only reason there was such a large gap between hulk and ares was because of the winter vacation season. I expect the new xmen character to be released with (likely Friday) the next pve.

Unknown

zaymac wrote:

Yes but Spidey is 3* and OBW is 2*. He is supposed to be better than OBW! if you nerf Spidey, OBW should be nerfed as well. They are both essentially support characters and are not the heavy hitters of your team. I personally hate OBW. I have been messed up way more by her aggressive recon than I have ever been by Spideys stun lock. I'd rather they focus on making IM40 not suck though. Any power that drains AP from your own team is no good.

Obw widow doesnt even steal much ap because other teams usually have not collected alot. The trick to beating her is to

A. Have your own obw, to steal it back
B. Knock her out asap ( kind of like storm )
C. Match all blue, and purple tiles yourself,and black.
D. Bde quiet because she is NOT going to be nerfed because of winners like you.

NorthernPolarity

Gambit002 wrote:

Obviously the only people that want Spidey nerfed don't have him. But seriously, what is the big deal anyway? Are you losing to teams with him?
If you can't beat teams with Spidey then you either:
a) have a weaker team than the one you're battling
b) have a weaker mind than the AI

So....which is it?

This logic is so flawed. Lets say that hypothetically you had a character that had an ability that instantly won you the game on offense but didn't instantly win you the game on defense. Under your logic, this character is perfectly fine because you can beat teams that have that character. Just because a character isn't as good on defense doesn't mean that he shouldn't be nerfed: 2AP to stun a guy for 5 turns is stupid, and I don't see how anyone else could think otherwise. Spidey needs to be reworked so that he remains viable without being as degenerate as stunlocking an entire team by just getting ~12 blue AP.

Unknown

Gambit002 wrote:

Obviously the only people that want Spidey nerfed don't have him. But seriously, what is the big deal anyway? Are you losing to teams with him?
If you can't beat teams with Spidey then you either:
a) have a weaker team than the one you're battling
b) have a weaker mind than the AI

So....which is it?

I have him. I think he should be nerfed. I beat teams with spidey regularly. Anything else?

Unknown

If she gets nerfed because of some of you, im going to be pissed. It's like everytime someone "complains" they "balance" the game which makes it WORST. Ragnok sucks now, Thor sucks now, Wolverine kind of sucks, Classic storm sucks now, Invisible woman still sucks after buff, Spiderman is going to suck after nerf. And when is moonstone going to get her f*cking buff devs! ? Her powers vs ap cost are almost ridiculous.

-.-

Unknown

Gambit002 wrote:

Obviously the only people that want Spidey nerfed don't have him. But seriously, what is the big deal anyway? Are you losing to teams with him?
If you can't beat teams with Spidey then you either:
a) have a weaker team than the one you're battling
b) have a weaker mind than the AI

So....which is it?

Actually I have Spidey, he's really OPed and should be nerfed.

NorthernPolarity

Unity wrote:

If she gets nerfed because of some of you, im going to be pissed. It's like everytime someone "complains" they "balance" the game which makes it WORST. Ragnok sucks now, Thor sucks now, Wolverine kind of sucks, Classic storm sucks now, Invisible woman still sucks after buff, Spiderman is going to suck after nerf. And when is moonstone going to get her f*cking buff devs! ? Her powers vs ap cost are almost ridiculous.

-.-

Knee-jerk reaction much? Ragnarok does suck now, but Thor and Wolvie are still among the best 2* characters in the game. I'm sorry that your 2* characters that had a 3*'s power level were nerfed to a reasonable power level, I suppose.

Unknown

Imo fix the underwhelming abilities. Cap, Moonstone, Bullseye, etc. Should be an easy fix.

Mags.n needs a complete overhaul imo, as does Yelena. But those take a bit more effort.

MarvelMan

To those who think Im saying she is OP, Im not. I think that she needs some adjustment to her steal and the double dip on strike tiles. And only a MINOR adjustment, not even as much as was done to Thorverine. Something like a gentle massage.

soenottelling wrote:

The questions for obw are: 1. Does her ap.stealing fit the ap stolen per an ap ratio d3 is looking for and 2: is the strike tile double dip something they wanted.

I don't know, but @8 purple she grabs 3 ap of 5 colors for 8/15 for a 1.875 ap stolen.to.ap used ratio. That doesn't seem exorbitant at a glance. The heal is fine and there really are no healing comparisons. So the last power is espionage. To me, the issue isn't double dipping on strike tiles but on how MUCH she can possibly double dip. A boosted patch dropping 6 300 damage strike tiles and her damage output is insane. Easy way to stop this is to simply cap how high she can double dip or to change the power to not double dip bit do more base damage.

So to me,.the only appropriate nerf if any would be to lower the MAX output of her double dipping on strike tiles. That said, she is a defensive liability unless the opponent cascades purple early and she gets a steal or two out. Offensively she outs herself out there in order to match which I think is a fair tradeoff for non-support like damage, though that damage might need a little trimming at the top. She sees so much use because black and purple.are rather scarce.colors.

She actually steals 4AP of 6 colors (gotta look at her with 5 covers in purple) for a ratio of 24/8 = 3.0 stolen per used. Im guessing, but that IS exorbitant. btw, I understand you are rarely, if ever, going to steal from someone who has 4+ of each and every color.

If anything they need to incorporate it into additional characters for us to assess how strong it is. For now, I say its fine.

They need to kill the double dip. With the move to strike tiles as an effective way of boosting damage over long matches that is just too good given its part of her third skill.


As for Spidey, I dont think he needs a nerfing. More of a massage. Something along the lines of making his blue take 4 AP and have a max stun of 3 or 4 turns. And before everyone accuses me of having a maxed Spidey: I dont.

over_clocked

Unity wrote:

Obw widow doesnt even steal much ap because other teams usually have not colled alot. The trick to beating her is to

A. Have your own obw, to steal it back
B. Knock her out asap ( kind of like storm )
C. Match all blue, and purple tiles yourself.
D. Stfu because she is NOT going to be nerfed because of winners like you.

Couldn't agree more, fight fire with fire. You usually bring your own Spidey to counter enemy Spidey/Venom; I often bring my own Daken against enemy Daken/Wolverine to watch with satisfaction as the enemy tries to place their strike tiles on the board where every single red tile is already occupied by *my* strike symbol; and definitely bring your own oBW to defeat enemy oBW, unless you can just stunlock/nuke her. I face oBW teams every tourney, 80% matches or so, and I am not complaining of this. She's not a problem when you have your own. Or better. I hear the Hood with maxed blue can be a real pain.

Unknown

Spidey is on every single team. His ability to stun lock and drag the game to crawl is OP in the most boring way possible. He desperately needs a Nerf. Magneto second.

After that, I think it's time to buff a bunch of people.

Unknown

Well since you avoided my question I guess it's option b and you're getting outwitted by the AI. Congratulations, mouth-breathers! I have never, not ONCE had an opponent stun lock me into a loss. If you do it's your own fault. Don't make my character weaker just so you can have a better chance of beating me.

NorthernPolarity

Gambit002 wrote:

Well since you avoided my question I guess it's option b and you're getting outwitted by the AI. Congratulations, mouth-breathers! I have never, not ONCE had an opponent stun lock me into a loss. If you do it's your own fault. Don't make my character weaker just so you can have a better chance of beating me.

Pretty sure you're the one avoiding our answers... no one is arguing that Spidey is beatable on defense, we're saying that he's too powerful on offense. Way to be a jerk, guy.

Unknown

Gambit002 wrote:

Well since you avoided my question I guess it's option b and you're getting outwitted by the AI. Congratulations, mouth-breathers! I have never, not ONCE had an opponent stun lock me into a loss. If you do it's your own fault. Don't make my character weaker just so you can have a better chance of beating me.

You're a funny guy Sully, I like you. That's why I'm going to kill you last.