**** Cyclops (Classic) ****

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Comments

  • StevO-JStevO-J Posts: 727 Critical Contributor
    notamutant wrote:
    Tested blue again without yellow out, it is currently glitched and giving 2 red AP per tile destroyed when I use blue at 5 covers. Sorry for those that wanted this glitch to remain hidden. This is definitely way OP if they don't fix it.

    So after the trouble with Scarlet Witch's green ability nobody thought to check if maybe new characters do the same thing before releasing them? I'd think that would be added to the playtesting and such... oh, wait... icon_e_wink.gif
  • greenglovegreenglove Posts: 105 Tile Toppler
    There's another glitch currently. The specs say that when you have a certain amount of tuap, then the red is supposed to use the tuap instead of the red. Right now, and as of the last time I checked, it is using both the tuap and the red to fire off that ability.
  • CrookedKnightCrookedKnight Posts: 2,579 Chairperson of the Boards
    StevO-J wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    Tested blue again without yellow out, it is currently glitched and giving 2 red AP per tile destroyed when I use blue at 5 covers. Sorry for those that wanted this glitch to remain hidden. This is definitely way OP if they don't fix it.

    So after the trouble with Scarlet Witch's green ability nobody thought to check if maybe new characters do the same thing before releasing them? I'd think that would be added to the playtesting and such... oh, wait... icon_e_wink.gif

    Well, I'm glad they tested their new character exactly as intensely as their new event.
  • jjfyahpowahjjfyahpowah Posts: 81 Match Maker
    IceIX wrote:

    notamutant wrote:
    I am a bit confused about red. If I have 10 team up AP, it only uses team up AP, I don't need both TU and red AP, right? Meaning if I had 10 red and 10 TU AP, I can deal around 17k damage.


    If you have Red, it uses Red. If you have Red *and* TU AP, it uses both. You don't get to just use TU AP.

    Laaaame. He's a 4*. You should reach 10 TU ap then it's 12k hits from there on out. Not get a 1 time hit and save up another combined 20 ap.
  • TarouzaTarouza Posts: 101 Tile Toppler
    notamutant wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    Okay guys, give me a little bit and I will try to get a Cyclops with 5 covers in blue video out today. Might not be able to upload it until tomorrow though.

    Thanks for doing those, NAM! They're always informative and helpful.

    There is a glitch in blue. I destroyed 7 red tiles and got 14 red AP. I had yellow out at the time, not sure if that impacted it. Videos currently being processed. Just check my youtube page because I don't think I will be around to post when it actually is uploaded. The analysis video is currently being uploaded, the video of blue being used is still processing.

    https://youtu.be/IEgE-F7d154
    Didn't watch the video but were there any team ups in the cascade that could be to cause of extra red
  • notamutantnotamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    Tarouza wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    Okay guys, give me a little bit and I will try to get a Cyclops with 5 covers in blue video out today. Might not be able to upload it until tomorrow though.

    Thanks for doing those, NAM! They're always informative and helpful.

    There is a glitch in blue. I destroyed 7 red tiles and got 14 red AP. I had yellow out at the time, not sure if that impacted it. Videos currently being processed. Just check my youtube page because I don't think I will be around to post when it actually is uploaded. The analysis video is currently being uploaded, the video of blue being used is still processing.

    https://youtu.be/IEgE-F7d154
    Didn't watch the video but were there any team ups in the cascade that could be to cause of extra red

    No, I tested it again and it had the same effect. Watch the video and pause it right when I used blue, you can see all the reds activated by the skill and see the AP change.

    https://youtu.be/ZN-gsQ39dFY?t=1m57s
  • MikaveusMikaveus Posts: 202
    Hate to bring the mood down, but I just read Cyclops's description in-game. Nice of Demiurge to dedicate him to their fallen colleague Steven Christopher Marshall. From what I've read he was a young buck at 29 taken too soon. May he rest in peace. icon_e_sad.gif
  • notamutantnotamutant Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    I just realized the genius of Cyclops yellow design; he is a red character that doesn't need to make red matches at all, and therefore he works with Iceman. You can use Iceman's blue for stun if you prefer over Cyclops blast, and getting rid of the red tiles isn't as big of a deal since you can get red AP with Cyclops' yellow skill. Great teammates. Don't know if AI will play correctly though.
  • PolaresPolares Posts: 2,638 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    I just realized the genius of Cyclops yellow design; he is a red character that doesn't need to make red matches at all, and therefore he works with Iceman. You can use Iceman's blue for stun if you prefer over Cyclops blast, and getting rid of the red tiles isn't as big of a deal since you can get red AP with Cyclops' yellow skill. Great teammates. Don't know if AI will play correctly though.

    Well AI loves to match team ups, so it will just depend if AI has matched yellow to cast the ability (and there is no other yellow in the team). But it should work. If it was young cyclops instead if classic it would have made a lot of sense thematically that they play so well together.

    What I dont know is what will do the AI once it reaches 10 teamups, it will fire first red or if it has another team up ability that can fire it will fire this one first. Which is the order, is team up ability the last to fire or the first is there are more than one ability than can be fired?
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    Counter-argument: Yellow is always useful -- unless you pair Cyclops with C.Mags, there's always team-ups on the board. Blue is only useful when there's a bunch of red basic or enemy special tiles clustered close (or close-ish at level 5) together. Level up the powers you use often, not the ones you use rarely.

    The yellow is just as strong at 3 as it is at 5. An extra turn on a 5 turn CD means little when it's ability to survive is always a big question mark, and the extra 1AP on a TU match is unlikely to amount to much unless the board is flooded with TUs.

    That extra AP loss is going to be offset by the extra wide grid at 5 cover blue, and again it's an extra 2k in damage from 3->5, which is not irrelevant.

    Even if you'll spam yellow fueling him with Kingpin or something, he's 5/3/5.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    The yellow is just as strong at 3 as it is at 5. An extra turn on a 5 turn CD means little when it's ability to survive is always a big question mark, and the extra 1AP on a TU match is unlikely to amount to much unless the board is flooded with TUs.
    Agreed, the timer probably isn't going to matter, but the extra AP could be important, dependent on the skill cost. I get the sense that they've tuned it so that if you boost +2, 5 in yellow means you can use his red after just 2 TU matches instead of 3; except you'd never want to leave blue at 3. It really comes down to whether or not you want to use his red, or use him to feed someone else's. There are so many good reds now, it's not hard to imagine having a better one in your formation.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    The yellow is just as strong at 3 as it is at 5. An extra turn on a 5 turn CD means little when it's ability to survive is always a big question mark, and the extra 1AP on a TU match is unlikely to amount to much unless the board is flooded with TUs.
    Agreed, the timer probably isn't going to matter, but the extra AP could be important, dependent on the skill cost. I get the sense that they've tuned it so that if you boost +2, 5 in yellow means you can use his red after just 2 TU matches instead of 3; except you'd never want to leave blue at 3. It really comes down to whether or not you want to use his red, or use him to feed someone else's. There are so many good reds now, it's not hard to imagine having a better one in your formation.

    I think if you run 3/5/5 (which it looks like you're implying), that you should also leave him underleveled, possibly even 221 like PX.

    This way he serves completely as a battery to your A character. Obviously preferable if that character is red to take advantage of his blue, but you could also run PX-GSBW-Cyc, and feed purple after yellow.

    I'm just thinking maybe he's at his worst if he's feeding himself.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    you could also run PX-GSBW-Cyc, and feed purple after yellow.
    Hadn't thought of that... not a bad idea at all. And his blue, by clearing out the reds, might offer more purple matches or crit opportunities.
  • Punisher5784Punisher5784 Posts: 3,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX wrote:

    notamutant wrote:
    I am a bit confused about red. If I have 10 team up AP, it only uses team up AP, I don't need both TU and red AP, right? Meaning if I had 10 red and 10 TU AP, I can deal around 17k damage.


    If you have Red, it uses Red. If you have Red *and* TU AP, it uses both. You don't get to just use TU AP.

    Laaaame. He's a 4*. You should reach 10 TU ap then it's 12k hits from there on out. Not get a 1 time hit and save up another combined 20 ap.

    Yes but what most players may not know is that Cyclops (Classic) was originally supposed to be a new 2*. Not sure how much what might had been changed from the original design.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    IceIX wrote:

    notamutant wrote:
    I am a bit confused about red. If I have 10 team up AP, it only uses team up AP, I don't need both TU and red AP, right? Meaning if I had 10 red and 10 TU AP, I can deal around 17k damage.


    If you have Red, it uses Red. If you have Red *and* TU AP, it uses both. You don't get to just use TU AP.

    Laaaame. He's a 4*. You should reach 10 TU ap then it's 12k hits from there on out. Not get a 1 time hit and save up another combined 20 ap.

    Yes but what most players may not know is that Cyclops (Classic) was originally supposed to be a new 2*. Not sure how much what might had been changed from the original design.
    No he wasn't. The 2* Cyclops was the All-New X-Men version according to IceIX.
  • GrumpySmurf1002GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    simonsez wrote:
    There are so many good reds now, it's not hard to imagine having a better one in your formation.

    We were just discussing him internally, and I think Cyc's red is being underrated.

    Without the TU, he's doing 539 per AP with single tile destruction.

    HB is 630
    Thing is 488 + 2 stun
    Thoress is 402 (+72.5 per charged tile w/ 9 blue)
    Carnage is 1217 but spread out and inflicts self damage
    Starlord is 861 but it's a CD.
    FalCap is 524 (+79 for every protect tile w/ 9 yellow)
    DP is 590 with a notable self-heal.

    So even without 10TU, he's roughly on par with a large chunk of the group. With TU (That you're probably collecting anyway with his yellow), he's up to 1185 per AP + selected row destruction which is worth some non-zero amount of AP in cascading.

    Thoress needs 10.8 (so 11) charged tiles for that damage output, FalCap needs 8.36 (9) protect tiles to match it.

    That gives him arguably the strongest red outlet, once accounting for Carnage's lowered utility once an opponent's character is KO'd.

    Given that, and the potential to underlevel to some degree for use as a battery w/ JG or PX, I think it's a mistake to not use 5 red. So I really think 5/3/5 gives maximum utility. I can see cases for 3/5/5 and 5/5/3 as discussed, but think you're leaving him as niche user restricted to PvE/Shield Sim by doing so. With those builds, he is either not strong enough alone, or does not provide enough color coverage for PvP.
  • Punisher5784Punisher5784 Posts: 3,180 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    IceIX wrote:

    notamutant wrote:
    I am a bit confused about red. If I have 10 team up AP, it only uses team up AP, I don't need both TU and red AP, right? Meaning if I had 10 red and 10 TU AP, I can deal around 17k damage.


    If you have Red, it uses Red. If you have Red *and* TU AP, it uses both. You don't get to just use TU AP.

    Laaaame. He's a 4*. You should reach 10 TU ap then it's 12k hits from there on out. Not get a 1 time hit and save up another combined 20 ap.

    Yes but what most players may not know is that Cyclops (Classic) was originally supposed to be a new 2*. Not sure how much what might had been changed from the original design.
    No he wasn't. The 2* Cyclops was the All-New X-Men version according to IceIX.

    When did he say that? Because Cyclops' cover was leaked months ago plus the All-New X-Men in Jean and Iceman are 4* so how would that make sense?
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    So even without 10TU, he's roughly on par with a large chunk of the group.
    True, but you also need to consider the buffed 3*s. When characters like DP, HT, LCap etc are buffed, their damage/AP is far better than non-buffed 4*s.

    That said, I can still see the argument going either way. Personally, I'd like to have both builds. I've got a battery version of HB for similar reasons.
  • QuebbsterQuebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
    Quebbster wrote:
    Yes but what most players may not know is that Cyclops (Classic) was originally supposed to be a new 2*. Not sure how much what might had been changed from the original design.
    No he wasn't. The 2* Cyclops was the All-New X-Men version according to IceIX.

    When did he say that? Because Cyclops' cover was leaked months ago plus the All-New X-Men in Jean and Iceman are 4* so how would that make sense?
    Had to do some digging, but I found the post: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33251&p=418974#p418974
  • spectatorspectator Posts: 395 Mover and Shaker
    So even without 10TU, he's roughly on par with a large chunk of the group. With TU (That you're probably collecting anyway with his yellow), he's up to 1185 per AP + selected row destruction which is worth some non-zero amount of AP in cascading.

    its not 1185 per ap, he consumes 20 ap for 11851 damage so its about 593 per ap
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