**** Cyclops (Classic) ****

notamutant

Tilesmasher wrote:

Is it as easy as keeping him at 269? Or is it more like 219.

He just needs his attack doing one less damage. That doesn't necessarily mean 1 level less. It depends on the character, but I am pretty sure there is a list somewhere of damage levels at each level.

Vhailorx

Can't you just use position if both have the same attack values? Center controls over left, which controls over right. So put iceman in center and generate green ap, right?

Now that he is a few weeks old, what is the consensus build for him? 5/3/5? 3/5/5 for use as a battery?

hurcules

Vhailorx wrote:

Can't you just use position if both have the same attack values? Center controls over left, which controls over right. So put iceman in center and generate green ap, right?

Now that he is a few weeks old, what is the consensus build for him? 5/3/5? 3/5/5 for use as a battery?

Still 5/3/5.

3y to 5y: Increase in countdown duration doesn't matter as long as it's not 2 or less. 3y already gives enough time to get your TU matches in. Also, 3AP to 4AP change is not a lot.

3r to 5r: Breaks my heart to see him does pitiful damage at 3r. At least with 5r he can be the only red user. 3r means you need to bring another red user.

Pylgrim

Even if you kept the character you wanted in the middle (or left and Cyke on the right) and both characters have the same integer as colour power, there are hidden decimals that can screw you forever. Found that out when I leveled my Loki up to 144, where theoretically Daken would keep tanking purple for him if properly placed. No dice, though.

So yeah, for safety, just keep the one you want not to tank with 1 less strength.

Phaserhawk

Pylgrim wrote:

Even if you kept the character you wanted in the middle (or left and Cyke on the right) and both characters have the same integer as colour power, there are hidden decimals that can screw you forever. Found that out when I leveled my Loki up to 144, where theoretically Daken would keep tanking purple for him if properly placed. No dice, though.

So yeah, for safety, just keep the one you want not to tank with 1 less strength.

There are no decimals. A character with purple as his main color always tanks that color if tied with another character whose main color is not purple.

Loki is Purple/Black/Green. Daken is Black/Purple/Blue. Once their purples are of equal value, Loki will tank purple just as Daken would tank black if roles reversed.

In addition a 4* will always tank over a 3*, although I'm not sure what ranks higher in priority, rarity or color order. Meaning if say Daken was a 4* in this scenario, I don't know if purple being Loki's main color over trumps Daken being a 4* or if primary color always wins, but there are no decimals. Just a if this then that source code.

GrumpySmurf1002

Phaserhawk wrote:

In addition a 4* will always tank over a 3*, although I'm not sure what ranks higher in priority, rarity or color order.

Tile strength. Max 4* is 82/73/64, Max 3* is 79/70/61.

A max 3* tanks their primary over a 4* secondary/tertiary, and tanks their secondary over a 4* tertiary.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

In addition a 4* will always tank over a 3*, although I'm not sure what ranks higher in priority, rarity or color order.

Tile strength. Max 4* is 82/73/64, Max 3* is 79/70/61.

A max 3* tanks their primary over a 4* secondary/tertiary, and tanks their secondary over a 4* tertiary.

Sorry, I wasn't clear enough, I meant if you had underleveled characters and lets say for example 4* Thor vs. Black Panther. If 4* Thor's yellow was equal to BP's yellow, would the primary of BP take priority, or 4* rarity?

vudu3

Can we get a best build poll? I think 5/3/5 is the best overall build but I've noticed some highly-regarded players with 5/5/3. Just wondering what the overall consensus is. I'm thinking the only reason to go 5/5/3 would be because of Iceman (which is a pretty good reason, come to think of it).

simonsez

vudu3 wrote:

Can we get a best build poll? I think 5/3/5 is the best overall build but I've noticed some highly-regarded players with 5/5/3. Just wondering what the overall consensus is. I'm thinking the only reason to go 5/5/3 would be because of Iceman (which is a pretty good reason, come to think of it).

Still seems nutty, given how little extra 3 --> 5 yellow gives you, and how much better blue 5 vs 3 is.

Orangecrush

simonsez wrote:

vudu3 wrote:

Can we get a best build poll? I think 5/3/5 is the best overall build but I've noticed some highly-regarded players with 5/5/3. Just wondering what the overall consensus is. I'm thinking the only reason to go 5/5/3 would be because of Iceman (which is a pretty good reason, come to think of it).

Still seems nutty, given how little extra 3 --> 5 yellow gives you, and how much better blue 5 vs 3 is.

The 1 extra AP is pretty big in practice. It usually means pulling off a power a turn sooner. I think that 535 may be the better build without regard for who he is partnered with, but 553 makes him a better support character no matter who he is with.

simonsez

Orangecrush wrote:

The 1 extra AP is pretty big in practice. It usually means pulling off a power a turn sooner.

True, but blowing up the reds from a 5x5 instead of a 3x3 means at least 3 extra red AP, plus the extra damage, plus the extra cascade from eliminating the extra tiles. All of that feels like it's worth a lot more.

Phaserhawk

I would instantly rule out 3/5/5, gimping his red is just not worth the gain in yellow.

That brings you to 5/5/3 or 5/3/5

5/5/3 is the better teammate build, 5/3/5 is the better get red build.

Let's say you use the R/Y boost, the TU boost and the all boost for AP.

Starting you have
4 red
4 yellow
4 TU
2 Blue

You need 1 yellow match, plus 2 TU matches to fire off Cyclops red at full power if you go 5/5/3 or 5/3/5 assuming the TU nets you red.

So at this point the only reason to go 5/5/3 is actually to accelerate a teammate, like Iceman as previously stated.

5/5/3 allows you to boost anyone faster plus Cyclops if you choose him to be priority.

5/3/5 allows you to fire red multiple times, since you can go off early, collect blue to get red and go off again once you get the TU, so a 5/3/5 makes more sense if a red user is the strongest color.

Now if you goal is to boost Iceman green right off the bat, you would run b/g ap, p/b ap, and all ap boost to start off with 4 green, 4 purple, 4 blue, 2 yellow, 2 red, 2 TU, 4 black.

The only situation where 5/5/3 goes off faster (assuming no match 4 or 5's) is if you go 1 match yellow, followed by 2 TU matches, this gives you 12 and you go off. In all other scenarios whether TU gets you 3 or 4 it requires 4 matches with any combination of match 3 green, or TU's. Again if you get a match 4 it changes things, but if no random AP occurs, both builds get you there, however you generally want Iceman's blue so it does make sense to make clops 5/5/3.

Other than the other playable 4*'s at high PvP, Jean Grey, and perhaps X-Force are the only ones that 5/5/3 can make them work faster, but neither of them have a blue, so you lose out on that with 5/5/3. Every other big gun in the current PvP meta has red as the top color, IMHB, Deadpool, Thor, Red Hulk, Cyclops, Carnage, Thing. All need red. Eventually 5/5/3 makes sense, but there are going to be very few times where that 1 truly makes a difference.

My final thought.
5/5/3 for Iceman, 5/3/5 for everyone else

Polares

Phaserhawk wrote:

I would instantly rule out 3/5/5, gimping his red is just not worth the gain in yellow.

That brings you to 5/5/3 or 5/3/5

5/5/3 is the better teammate build, 5/3/5 is the better get red build.

Let's say you use the R/Y boost, the TU boost and the all boost for AP.

Starting you have
4 red
4 yellow
4 TU
2 Blue

You need 1 yellow match, plus 2 TU matches to fire off Cyclops red at full power if you go 5/5/3 or 5/3/5 assuming the TU nets you red.

So at this point the only reason to go 5/5/3 is actually to accelerate a teammate, like Iceman as previously stated.

5/5/3 allows you to boost anyone faster plus Cyclops if you choose him to be priority.

5/3/5 allows you to fire red multiple times, since you can go off early, collect blue to get red and go off again once you get the TU, so a 5/3/5 makes more sense if a red user is the strongest color.

Now if you goal is to boost Iceman green right off the bat, you would run b/g ap, p/b ap, and all ap boost to start off with 4 green, 4 purple, 4 blue, 2 yellow, 2 red, 2 TU, 4 black.

The only situation where 5/5/3 goes off faster (assuming no match 4 or 5's) is if you go 1 match yellow, followed by 2 TU matches, this gives you 12 and you go off. In all other scenarios whether TU gets you 3 or 4 it requires 4 matches with any combination of match 3 green, or TU's. Again if you get a match 4 it changes things, but if no random AP occurs, both builds get you there, however you generally want Iceman's blue so it does make sense to make clops 5/5/3.

Other than the other playable 4*'s at high PvP, Jean Grey, and perhaps X-Force are the only ones that 5/5/3 can make them work faster, but neither of them have a blue, so you lose out on that with 5/5/3. Every other big gun in the current PvP meta has red as the top color, IMHB, Deadpool, Thor, Red Hulk, Cyclops, Carnage, Thing. All need red. Eventually 5/5/3 makes sense, but there are going to be very few times where that 1 truly makes a difference.

My final thought.
5/5/3 for Iceman, 5/3/5 for everyone else

I don't know why you rule out 3/5/5 so fast. You are saying that 5/5/3 is good for iceman, so why not 3/5/5? (Well iceman has a very good blue but, we can say RH or JG). I still think 3/5/5 is the ultimate battery, yellow for anyone, blue for any red user and as you stated there are A LOT of red users. But I concede that if you want him for PvP, not having red at 5 is quite dangerous. I think 3/5/5 is the ultimate build when you can chose 3 chars, so for example IMHB, JG and 3/5/5 Cyclops make sense, but JG and 3/5/5 cyclops is quite dangerous.

I guess, even though I like 3/5/5 a lot, I will go to 5/3/5 so I can use him in PvP when buffed and I will have a much easier time in his DDQ4 ( luck has determined that for now my Cyclops is 2/4/5, so if I get another yellow cover then I will go 3/5/5 for now).


PS: Oh, and red hulk doesn't need red (sorry but I had to say it )

Phaserhawk

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

I would instantly rule out 3/5/5, gimping his red is just not worth the gain in yellow.

That brings you to 5/5/3 or 5/3/5

5/5/3 is the better teammate build, 5/3/5 is the better get red build.

Let's say you use the R/Y boost, the TU boost and the all boost for AP.

Starting you have
4 red
4 yellow
4 TU
2 Blue

You need 1 yellow match, plus 2 TU matches to fire off Cyclops red at full power if you go 5/5/3 or 5/3/5 assuming the TU nets you red.

So at this point the only reason to go 5/5/3 is actually to accelerate a teammate, like Iceman as previously stated.

5/5/3 allows you to boost anyone faster plus Cyclops if you choose him to be priority.

5/3/5 allows you to fire red multiple times, since you can go off early, collect blue to get red and go off again once you get the TU, so a 5/3/5 makes more sense if a red user is the strongest color.

Now if you goal is to boost Iceman green right off the bat, you would run b/g ap, p/b ap, and all ap boost to start off with 4 green, 4 purple, 4 blue, 2 yellow, 2 red, 2 TU, 4 black.

The only situation where 5/5/3 goes off faster (assuming no match 4 or 5's) is if you go 1 match yellow, followed by 2 TU matches, this gives you 12 and you go off. In all other scenarios whether TU gets you 3 or 4 it requires 4 matches with any combination of match 3 green, or TU's. Again if you get a match 4 it changes things, but if no random AP occurs, both builds get you there, however you generally want Iceman's blue so it does make sense to make clops 5/5/3.

Other than the other playable 4*'s at high PvP, Jean Grey, and perhaps X-Force are the only ones that 5/5/3 can make them work faster, but neither of them have a blue, so you lose out on that with 5/5/3. Every other big gun in the current PvP meta has red as the top color, IMHB, Deadpool, Thor, Red Hulk, Cyclops, Carnage, Thing. All need red. Eventually 5/5/3 makes sense, but there are going to be very few times where that 1 truly makes a difference.

My final thought.
5/5/3 for Iceman, 5/3/5 for everyone else

I don't know why you rule out 3/5/5 so fast. You are saying that 5/5/3 is good for iceman, so why not 3/5/5? (Well iceman has a very good blue but, we can say RH or JG). I still think 3/5/5 is the ultimate battery, yellow for anyone, blue for any red user and as you stated there are A LOT of red users. But I concede that if you want him for PvP, not having red at 5 is quite dangerous. I think 3/5/5 is the ultimate build when you can chose 3 chars, so for example IMHB, JG and 3/5/5 Cyclops make sense, but JG and 3/5/5 cyclops is quite dangerous.

I guess, even though I like 3/5/5 a lot, I will go to 5/3/5 so I can use him in PvP when buffed and I will have a much easier time in his DDQ4 ( luck has determined that for now my Cyclops is 2/4/5, so if I get another yellow cover then I will go 3/5/5 for now).


PS: Oh, and red hulk doesn't need red (sorry but I had to say it )

Lol, yes I know Red Hulk doesn't need red, but it is his top color and Cyclops can use it, thus my reasoning for 5/3/5.

I 1000% agree though that if you can pick 3 like in SHIELD Sim, 3/5/5 Cyclops is the best of all the builds. Run him with Jean/IMHB or Iceman/IMHB and have fun

ZeroKarma

Having run Cyclops throughout the First Avenger PvP and now with Top Gun, I think the limitation on his yellow becomes a bit more obvious, and leaving me firmly at 5/3/5 for best build.

I haven't even bothered firing off the yellow, because it continuously generates ...yellow. With Falcon that means I can do nothing at all and with LCap that means a faster activation of a terrible power. There are not a ton of great options with yellow in the 4* level that don't **** that team.

Blue is simply more reliable, can finish someone off, and the AP it generates is always useful as Cyclops is a perfectly fine red user.

hurcules

ZeroKarma wrote:

I haven't even bothered firing off the yellow, because it continuously generates ...yellow. With Falcon that means I can do nothing at all and with LCap that means a faster activation of a terrible power. There are not a ton of great options with yellow in the 4* level that don't **** that team.

That's because your Cyclops is not maxed. Maxed Cyclops is buffed to L350, in which case his strongest colour (red) overtakes that of the L290 featured 3* strongest colour.

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

I 1000% agree though that if you can pick 3 like in SHIELD Sim, 3/5/5 Cyclops is the best of all the builds. Run him with Jean/IMHB or Iceman/IMHB and have fun

Do most people select builds with PvP in mind, or sim in mind? Serious question. I'd have assumed the former.

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

There are no decimals. A character with purple as his main color always tanks that color if tied with another character whose main color is not purple.

So was he wrong?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=19621#p256142

ZeroKarma

hurcules wrote:

ZeroKarma wrote:

I haven't even bothered firing off the yellow, because it continuously generates ...yellow. With Falcon that means I can do nothing at all and with LCap that means a faster activation of a terrible power. There are not a ton of great options with yellow in the 4* level that don't **** that team.

That's because your Cyclops is not maxed. Maxed Cyclops is buffed to L350, in which case his strongest colour (red) overtakes that of the L290 featured 3* strongest colour.

Understood, but on most occasions, Cyke is not going to be buffed. I will still want to use him, because he's a blast to play with. Obviously this problem goes away if the featured has a useful power in their strongest color as well.

In answer to another post, I'm considering PvP rather than Sim when I think about builds. That's where the bulk of the prizes are.

D2KM_

Who pairs well with 4* cyk? I'm looking for a good combo for pvp, just not sure who he runs well with.