5* Characters effects on PVP/PVE
Comments
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Drummerboycroy wrote:15 of my top heroes later in the SECOND node of the Ant-Man event, I can again confirm that rostering 5*s has devastating effects on a roster of level 130 3*s.
DBC
Check out this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35394
roster of 130's and a 5*.. the level scaling difference is less than 20 between the 2 rosters, one with a 5* and one without..
Going by that experiment being run.. a single 5* should be able to just walk all over things.. Growth industry is the perfect controlled environment to run the test, as no weekly boosted or other things interfere with scaling, just the 5* with the regular roster.
So it appears that the weekly boosted , coupled with the 5* , are where the biggest problems are occurring.0 -
Malcrof wrote:Drummerboycroy wrote:15 of my top heroes later in the SECOND node of the Ant-Man event, I can again confirm that rostering 5*s has devastating effects on a roster of level 130 3*s.
DBC
Check out this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35394
roster of 130's and a 5*.. the level scaling difference is less than 20 between the 2 rosters, one with a 5* and one without..
Going by that experiment being run.. a single 5* should be able to just walk all over things.. Growth industry is the perfect controlled environment to run the test, as no weekly boosted or other things interfere with scaling, just the 5* with the regular roster.
So it appears that the weekly boosted , coupled with the 5* , are where the biggest problems are occurring.
While I'm glad to see my experiment being pimped elsewhere, I'd make two points:
1) There is a level discrepancy between my two rosters to start with; my 'main' has no 5* and has a roster of largely 120's. My 'alt' has the 5*, but doesn't have anybody beyond 104, and only has one 3* character with 13 covers. So there's a discrepancy (right now) of about 20 levels and only in certain places, but that's primarily showing up in The Hunt. Growth Industry has so far been consistently 20 levels higher. No breaks.
2) I think DBC has two 5*, whereas my alt just has 1. So if the game is treating the 5* as a fully-covered 4*, his roster effectively 'has' two of those. If a 5* generally bumps scaling by 20 levels and he's got two, then he's potentially seeing a 40-level bump in his scaling. That's not insignificant.0 -
DFiPL wrote:Malcrof wrote:Drummerboycroy wrote:15 of my top heroes later in the SECOND node of the Ant-Man event, I can again confirm that rostering 5*s has devastating effects on a roster of level 130 3*s.
DBC
Check out this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35394
roster of 130's and a 5*.. the level scaling difference is less than 20 between the 2 rosters, one with a 5* and one without..
Going by that experiment being run.. a single 5* should be able to just walk all over things.. Growth industry is the perfect controlled environment to run the test, as no weekly boosted or other things interfere with scaling, just the 5* with the regular roster.
So it appears that the weekly boosted , coupled with the 5* , are where the biggest problems are occurring.
While I'm glad to see my experiment being pimped elsewhere, I'd make two points:
1) There is a level discrepancy between my two rosters to start with; my 'main' has no 5* and has a roster of largely 120's. My 'alt' has the 5*, but doesn't have anybody beyond 104, and only has one 3* character with 13 covers. So there's a discrepancy (right now) of about 20 levels and only in certain places, but that's primarily showing up in The Hunt. Growth Industry has so far been consistently 20 levels higher. No breaks.
2) I think DBC has two 5*, whereas my alt just has 1. So if the game is treating the 5* as a fully-covered 4*, his roster effectively 'has' two of those. If a 5* generally bumps scaling by 20 levels and he's got two, then he's potentially seeing a 40-level bump in his scaling. That's not insignificant.
a 40 level bump in scaling is not bad.. especially when your other characters are boosted.. Growth industry is the best place to experiment, if you have not beaten it yet (it scales after you beat it once).. as no characters are boosted at all. A nice control environment (probably the only PVE with no boosted anybody).
If you do not level them, you will see your scaling even out once you get a few 3*s to 140.. when boosted that puts them at 200 or so..
Also, just to add something.. the worst scaling i have seen has been when one of my 2 max 4*s is an essential (like right now).. That gets a little nuts..0 -
DFiPL wrote:
2) I think DBC has two 5*, whereas my alt just has 1. So if the game is treating the 5* as a fully-covered 4*, his roster effectively 'has' two of those. If a 5* generally bumps scaling by 20 levels and he's got two, then he's potentially seeing a 40-level bump in his scaling. That's not insignificant.
Bottom line is this:
Prior to rostering $$, I played normally with soft-capped 94s and then soft-capped 120s (all the data below relates to both phases, as I did not notice appreciable differences between my 94 and 120 stages with regard to my 3*s), as in:
PvP: Matches were all potentially winnable, skipping would often bring me easier matches, often against enemies slightly below my levels.
PvE: First page, doable, sometimes HPs needed depending on event. Subs, first 3 easy, essentials all winnable, possibly using HPs, Easy matches doable, but usually needing HPs, Normals sometimes winnable, sometimes not.
Ant-Man: Finished event, last node difficult, but I somehow passed on first attempt.
Post $$:
PvP: Matches were often not winnable, skipping 8-10 times would often bring enemies within 40 levels of me (my potentially boosted 130s fighting potentially boosted +-166s), but skipping enough (sometimes 20+ times) would usually bring me someone I could beat (240s with a loaner or the like).
PvE: First page, doable, sometimes HPs needed depending on event. Subs, first 3 easy, essentials doable, but usually losing 1-2 heroes, HPs definitely needed, Easy matches sometimes doable with decent boards, HPs necessary, no shot at Normals.
Ant-Man: No event for comparison
Post OML:
PvP: Apparently lost half my seeds? Hit after first win, facing fully maxed 4*s before hitting 100 points.
PvE: First page, no discernible changes. Subs, first 3 no changes? Essentials, potentially winnable, but not likely. Easy nodes, not much chance. Normals, saw levels and didn't bother.
Ant-Man event: Lost 2 heroes on first node (Ant-Man remained with triple digit health), lost 15 heroes on second before calling it good, having never done more than killing 2 of the enemies.
Summary: I now have DDQ (except the 4* node), the first page and first three nodes of each sub, and 2-3 seed fights in PvP available to me for playing MPQ.
My 120s have grown into roughly half 130s and half 127s, so I'm not giving up hope yet, but without some way to progress (CoPos, LTs, or something that allows me to continue moving forward without sacrificing 5*s and regretting it later), I'm not really sure what I'm doing anymore, not including my 20 minutes a day of DDQ.
Thank God I found an amazing casual alliance. The Swarm on three!
DBC0 -
Malcrof wrote:a 40 level bump in scaling is not bad.. especially when your other characters are boosted.. Growth industry is the best place to experiment, if you have not beaten it yet (it scales after you beat it once).. as no characters are boosted at all. A nice control environment (probably the only PVE with no boosted anybody).
That is actually a pretty bad increase if a person hasn't gained a similar strength in their roster to deal with the increase.
I ended up selling the SS on my secondary account because the scaling jump was too much for my level 70'ish roster, which is a sad indictment of some of the decisions being made by the devs in this game where getting rid of one of the best characters in the game is something people could ever conceivably want to do.0 -
Drummerboycroy wrote:DFiPL wrote:
2) I think DBC has two 5*, whereas my alt just has 1. So if the game is treating the 5* as a fully-covered 4*, his roster effectively 'has' two of those. If a 5* generally bumps scaling by 20 levels and he's got two, then he's potentially seeing a 40-level bump in his scaling. That's not insignificant.
Bottom line is this:
Prior to rostering $$, I played normally with soft-capped 94s and then soft-capped 120s (all the data below relates to both phases, as I did not notice appreciable differences between my 94 and 120 stages with regard to my 3*s), as in:
PvP: Matches were all potentially winnable, skipping would often bring me easier matches, often against enemies slightly below my levels.
PvE: First page, doable, sometimes HPs needed depending on event. Subs, first 3 easy, essentials all winnable, possibly using HPs, Easy matches doable, but usually needing HPs, Normals sometimes winnable, sometimes not.
Ant-Man: Finished event, last node difficult, but I somehow passed on first attempt.
Post $$:
PvP: Matches were often not winnable, skipping 8-10 times would often bring enemies within 40 levels of me (my potentially boosted 130s fighting potentially boosted +-166s), but skipping enough (sometimes 20+ times) would usually bring me someone I could beat (240s with a loaner or the like).
PvE: First page, doable, sometimes HPs needed depending on event. Subs, first 3 easy, essentials doable, but usually losing 1-2 heroes, HPs definitely needed, Easy matches sometimes doable with decent boards, HPs necessary, no shot at Normals.
Ant-Man: No event for comparison
Post OML:
PvP: Apparently lost half my seeds? Hit after first win, facing fully maxed 4*s before hitting 100 points.
PvE: First page, no discernible changes. Subs, first 3 no changes? Essentials, potentially winnable, but not likely. Easy nodes, not much chance. Normals, saw levels and didn't bother.
Ant-Man event: Lost 2 heroes on first node (Ant-Man remained with triple digit health), lost 15 heroes on second before calling it good, having never done more than killing 2 of the enemies.
Summary: I now have DDQ (except the 4* node), the first page and first three nodes of each sub, and 2-3 seed fights in PvP available to me for playing MPQ.
My 120s have grown into roughly half 130s and half 127s, so I'm not giving up hope yet, but without some way to progress (CoPos, LTs, or something that allows me to continue moving forward without sacrificing 5*s and regretting it later), I'm not really sure what I'm doing anymore, not including my 20 minutes a day of DDQ.
Thank God I found an amazing casual alliance. The Swarm on three!
DBC
For me growth industry is unwinnable - my final node wave level is in the 180's - whether or not it's because of the OML on my roster I don't know but I do know it's unwinnable.
A 20 level jump (when your roster is mostly 94) is a big jump. It's almost a twenty percent increase on your own roster level, and in some nodes you can't even use the 94 level characters you do have because they are villains making it even tougher.0 -
OneLastGambit wrote:Drummerboycroy wrote:DFiPL wrote:
2) I think DBC has two 5*, whereas my alt just has 1. So if the game is treating the 5* as a fully-covered 4*, his roster effectively 'has' two of those. If a 5* generally bumps scaling by 20 levels and he's got two, then he's potentially seeing a 40-level bump in his scaling. That's not insignificant.
Bottom line is this:
Prior to rostering $$, I played normally with soft-capped 94s and then soft-capped 120s (all the data below relates to both phases, as I did not notice appreciable differences between my 94 and 120 stages with regard to my 3*s), as in:
PvP: Matches were all potentially winnable, skipping would often bring me easier matches, often against enemies slightly below my levels.
PvE: First page, doable, sometimes HPs needed depending on event. Subs, first 3 easy, essentials all winnable, possibly using HPs, Easy matches doable, but usually needing HPs, Normals sometimes winnable, sometimes not.
Ant-Man: Finished event, last node difficult, but I somehow passed on first attempt.
Post $$:
PvP: Matches were often not winnable, skipping 8-10 times would often bring enemies within 40 levels of me (my potentially boosted 130s fighting potentially boosted +-166s), but skipping enough (sometimes 20+ times) would usually bring me someone I could beat (240s with a loaner or the like).
PvE: First page, doable, sometimes HPs needed depending on event. Subs, first 3 easy, essentials doable, but usually losing 1-2 heroes, HPs definitely needed, Easy matches sometimes doable with decent boards, HPs necessary, no shot at Normals.
Ant-Man: No event for comparison
Post OML:
PvP: Apparently lost half my seeds? Hit after first win, facing fully maxed 4*s before hitting 100 points.
PvE: First page, no discernible changes. Subs, first 3 no changes? Essentials, potentially winnable, but not likely. Easy nodes, not much chance. Normals, saw levels and didn't bother.
Ant-Man event: Lost 2 heroes on first node (Ant-Man remained with triple digit health), lost 15 heroes on second before calling it good, having never done more than killing 2 of the enemies.
Summary: I now have DDQ (except the 4* node), the first page and first three nodes of each sub, and 2-3 seed fights in PvP available to me for playing MPQ.
My 120s have grown into roughly half 130s and half 127s, so I'm not giving up hope yet, but without some way to progress (CoPos, LTs, or something that allows me to continue moving forward without sacrificing 5*s and regretting it later), I'm not really sure what I'm doing anymore, not including my 20 minutes a day of DDQ.
Thank God I found an amazing casual alliance. The Swarm on three!
DBC
For me growth industry is unwinnable - my final node wave level is in the 180's - whether or not it's because of the OML on my roster I don't know but I do know it's unwinnable.
A 20 level jump (when your roster is mostly 94) is a big jump. It's almost a twenty percent increase on your own roster level, and in some nodes you can't even use the 94 level characters you do have because they are villains making it even tougher.
Guessing this depends on covers.. just tried it with my 1 cover Blue SS, 1 cover yellow OML, and my level 140 5/1/3 Ant-Man.. final node level 198.
Yes, both 5*s have heals for their covers.. and yes, i had to use SS's thrice.. but , finished it easily, OML was at full health at the end (battleplan team up also used)
That was my 3rd clear of it, so it is up to 201 now. first time through it was 186, used max JG/IMHB/loaner Ant Man.0 -
Guessing this depends on covers.. just tried it with my 1 cover Blue SS, 1 cover yellow OML, and my level 140 5/1/3 Ant-Man.. final node level 198.
Yes, both 5*s have heals for their covers.. and yes, i had to use SS's thrice.. but , finished it easily, OML was at full health at the end (battleplan team up also used)
That was my 3rd clear of it, so it is up to 201 now. first time through it was 186, used max JG/IMHB/loaner Ant Man.
Yeah, I'm convinced that with an OML yellow it can be done no sweat, the best progress I made was OBW and OML and just spamming heal as often as possible (though my OML is
so everytime I use a power I lose 700 health) but still wiped.
Also think the loaner Ant-Man should be higher than level 70, hes 100 levels below the villains on my nodes even Daken nearly one-shots him with 4 attack tiles out. Ant-Man never lasts long on mine unless I protect him the whole time.0 -
For anyone with a 5* that they are thinking of selling, remember that a fix is incoming. It would really suck to sell them and then have things get fixed a day later. If you can continue to tough it out, then it should pay off in the end.0
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Just to chime in....
I have lucked into 3 5* covers (2xSS, 1xOML) from legendaries, and rostered both characters. I have NOT leveled either of them, however.
In regular PvE and PvP I haven't noticed a huge difference in scaling vs. before -- maybe a tick up in difficulty.
In Growth Industry -- assuming that the event was not re-scaled for the current run -- I'm noticing a huge difference. The first survival node is now about the same level of difficulty as the final node was during the last run; the second survival node is also more difficult.0 -
DaveR4470 wrote:Just to chime in....
I have lucked into 3 5* covers (2xSS, 1xOML) from legendaries, and rostered both characters. I have NOT leveled either of them, however.
In regular PvE and PvP I haven't noticed a huge difference in scaling vs. before -- maybe a tick up in difficulty.
In Growth Industry -- assuming that the event was not re-scaled for the current run -- I'm noticing a huge difference. The first survival node is now about the same level of difficulty as the final node was during the last run; the second survival node is also more difficult.
In all events, PVE and PVP, outside of Growth Industry.. you have boosted characters to help even out the differentials. This is why Growth Industry is the best place for scaling tests.. no boosted, just straight up roster.0 -
I've all but stopped playing apart from DDQ and a small number of random matches here and there (which I now lose far more that I should and as continue to serve as a reminder of why I've all but stopped playing).0
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yogi_ wrote:I've all but stopped playing apart from DDQ and a small number of random matches here and there (which I mostly lose and as continue to serve as a reminder of why I've all but stopped).
I hear you. While I once felt like the game was attempting to convince me to stop playing at every opportunity, rostering my two 5*s has essentially forced me to stop even attempting to play, aside from the non-4* DDQ nodes.
DBC0 -
OneLastGambit wrote:
For me growth industry is unwinnable - my final node wave level is in the 180's - whether or not it's because of the OML on my roster I don't know but I do know it's unwinnable.
As an aside, I was having huge problems with it too - wiped with four different teams - until I remembered that the first wave is a trick. Instead of killing Kishu first, like I'd usually do, leave him until last, use
to steal specials (including Kishu's shields), and kill him slowly so you can build up enough ISO to kill him and Sentry before he gets off a power. Doesn't make it easy, but with Ant-man, Cap & Hood, it became a thinking-man's puzzle round instead of a brutal gamble for survival. 0 -
I sold surfer and I'm not too worried about a fix as honestly any fives in the future will be sold. To me the four stars are enough and I can be competitive sooner as I'm pretty far a long in the transition. Growth industry is a lost cause but by selling ss before the hunt, it was a breath of fresh air and actually some what fun and it's a boring PVE to me.0
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I haven't really seen a huge uptick in any PVE or PVP since I rostered my $$ last week. The big test is that I just got a 5* Jean Grey last night. So I'm curious having two 5*s will make a difference going forward.0
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I had a team from 90 and got a logan pushed my Nodes from 160 to 185
I pushed 15 people to 120 Nodes stuck around the same
THough i now got a 2nd old man logan same color (yellow) tempted to move logan up but not that stupid lol
I am shocked about one thing
I seen someone in my top 10 with nothing but 94s and a SS , very shocked they can hold top 100 -
They may have just rostered him?0
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This is still a rather scary possibility.
I hear that PVE isn't effected if you don't use the character, but PVP is?
I just drew a Phoenix and as somebody who's top characters are 128 at most, and 94 for most of the others, tossing in a 250 sounds kinda scary.
Do we have any more solid conclusions by now?0 -
Have been throwing my Old Man around in pvp, sim and pve, haven't noticed any major issues despite the rest of my 155 soft-serve roster.
In sim and pvp, I've always seen a mix of low to high level opponents - still get a good mix now. Maybe veering more to the higher range, but not enough to make a difference to my playtime.
For pve, I think the base level might have increased a little? Essentials currently start in the 140s,
but I never paid much attention before and for new releases I grind everything up to 395 anyway.
Guessing that I will get one or more of the others eventually and we'll see how that goes.0
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