5* Characters effects on PVP/PVE

Unknown

rbdragon wrote:

What I'm confused about is this - if you are a 2*-3* transitioner, why are you even opening legendary tokens?

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Maybe it's decades of working in a field devoted to the study of human behavior, but this mindset always confuses me, and perhaps it's more indicative of bias due to my specific area of practice, as opposed to a lack of understanding on the part of others.

Games are played for enjoyment. Part of the enjoyment is winning. Part of winning is getting some tangible benefit (like, in this case, tokens, but also cards, ISO, boosts, etc.). The benefit takes the form of the experience of opening a token, or said another way, experiencing the gained pleasure of utilizing the spoils of your victory, Once again, in MPQ, that all leads to covers or tokens, ALL the tokens.

Suggesting people not open their prizes is patently counterintuitive, based on the most primitive notions of how humans (well, all animals, but that's a much longer conversation) work in a general sense, and more specifically, with regard to theories on play behavior (if anyone is interested, I could bore you with plenty of information on the subject). It's one of the main reasons animals (in this case, humans) play games in the first place. "Winning" is a complex emotional equation, and many developers actually utilize the services of people versed in the areas of risk/reward and cost/benefit study for this very reason. Have a conversation with someone from a larger development team willing to talk about it and you'll quickly see what I'm talking about.

Blaming players for something well within the developers' control is just wholly confusing, regardless of how many times the same sentiments are repeated in the forum. I often wonder what kind of cognitive dissonance exists in the mind of a player attempting to "win" without actually allowing, or even actively attempting to ignore, one of the primary emotional responses to/behaviors associated with winning.

I get that people are trying to make sense of it, but attempting to disregard basic instinctive behavior doesn't seem like the best answer. We can suggest it all day every day, but it will always remain counter to how human animals are hardwired. The slot/token structure in this game is designed to elicit specific emotional responses in an average human being, so while I applaud those willing and/or able to resist, expecting everyone to do so makes no sense, again speaking through the lens of basic human/animal behavior & thought.

DBC

mindsuckr

rbdragon wrote:

What I'm confused about is this - if you are a 2*-3* transitioner, why are you even opening legendary tokens?

I'm in the 3* transition, so I need to place well in PVE to get those covers. The only way to place well enough to get more than one cover at a time is to have all 3 essentials. This is the exact reason people open the legendary tokens before they can roster a 5* because they are chasing 4*s.

nyck1118

Im in the same boat...I got enough command points to get a legendary token. I got got Red Hulk. My team has A 1 cover red Hulk, 1 cover X-23 and a 1 Cover Nick Fury. My next best guys are probably some 2 star Thors and Wolvie. In PVPs now I am getting matched up against teams that are absolutely beasting over me. 146 level all 3 cover characters and I can't compete at all. Anything I can do to combat this or fix my MMR? I will skip as much as I can, then fight a match and lose and then the same thing again.

OneLastGambit

You're assuming that us transitioners open them all on purpose. I have gotten 2 KP and 1 XFDP from either event or standard tokens. No way of avoiding that unless you suggest that we all don't open any tokens ever.

I like opening tokens, I'm sure most people do. I like deciding what to throw away or keep, and the decision is still going to be there when I'm in 4* land. I'm not the type to buy a roster slot for every single new cover I pull. I'll mull it over and decide if there is someone worth sacrificing for it on my roster, if not I throw it away. At the start of the game I sold 2 thing covers due to lack of roster space (and needing that space for 2* progression) and also due to an accident of sorts. Later I won a KP from a standard token and decided to find a roster space for him, he has since been very valuable and having him meant being able to compete on a very slightly higher level in PVE and win slightly better prizes.

Yes we are getting them too soon but there is a way to accommodate them if you throw away your collectivist attitude.

generalTsobot

rbdragon wrote:

What I'm confused about is this - if you are a 2*-3* transitioner, why are you even opening legendary tokens?

Not to pile on, since the good doctor and DBC both covered two good angles, but remember that PVE is typically the easiest place for a 1, 2, or 3* transitioner to progress. Now that 4*s are required (essential) in PVE, there is certainly incentive for a 2-3* transitioner roster as many 4*s as possible to try to score well enough to get 3* covers. Legendary tokens are the only guaranteed outlet for a 2-3* transitioner to acquire 4*s, so opening them does make sense in that regard.

I do find the scaling mechanic to be wonky in general, which the introduction of 5*s makes even more apparent. In other RPG's or games with RPG-like elements (such as MPQ, Borderlands, etc.), if you are lucky enough to pull a legendary piece of gear, the game is generally designed to do one of two things: either you become godlike instantly and the game becomes trivially easy (this is what's happening to me in Final Fantasy Record Keeper); or, the game locks you out from using that gear until you reach a certain level or achievement (Borderlands).

MPQ, to this point, has taken an entirely different approach -- it lets you use that gear (5*), but makes the game far more difficult for the player and does not present a good way to dig yourself out of the hole. That seems to be the antithesis of how other games have been designed to handle these situations.

To me, the bottom line is this: the scaling mechanic and design simply sucks the fun out of the game.

Edit: grammar

dr tinykittylove

nyck1118 wrote:

Im in the same boat...I got enough command points to get a legendary token. I got got Red Hulk. My team has A 1 cover red Hulk, 1 cover X-23 and a 1 Cover Nick Fury. My next best guys are probably some 2 star Thors and Wolvie. In PVPs now I am getting matched up against teams that are absolutely beasting over me. 146 level all 3 cover characters and I can't compete at all. Anything I can do to combat this or fix my MMR? I will skip as much as I can, then fight a match and lose and then the same thing again.

Stop levelling your 4*s. They're not very useful until you have a lot of covers on at least one colour, and both scaling and matchmaking are based off your highest level characters.

If your 2*s are currently strongest, then keep using them to build up your 3*s through ddq and whatever progressions you can get. Your 2*s can still beat some lower level 3*s easily, especially if they are boosted that week. Join pvps late, not at the start, and skip to find targets you can beat.

jackstar0

I did see some matchmaking that seemed to be strongly considering my 0/0/2 OML in the Simulator. He is untouched for levels, but my next highest is a 190 XFW and then some 170 4*s on down to maxed 3*s.

I just have to keep working my 4*s to get them viable and eventually maxed... somehow...

Lots of teams I was matched up with had at least 1 maxed 4* and sometimes more.

Crowl

Just rostered my first 5* to avoid it expiring and it seems to have seriously clobbered my pvp, after only 3 seed teams the lowest team I could find to queue had an average level of about 180 with most other teams being more like a level 240 average and more than a little tricky for my 120'ish team.

Edit - Doing a quick test in the current lightning round, once I got through the seed teams it was straight onto max covered 4* teams supplemented by 200+ boosted characters.

Some of the decision making of the devs just boggles the mind at times, getting upgrades in games should not make your gameplay significantly worse and it is tough to think of any other videogames where this happens.

slidecage

Crowl wrote:

Just rostered my first 5* to avoid it expiring and it seems to have seriously clobbered my pvp, after only 3 seed teams the lowest team I could find to queue had an average level of about 180 with most other teams being more like a level 240 average and more than a little tricky for my 120'ish team.

my PVE went from 90 to 120s ess nodes some fell back to 100 dont know if its cause im not playing or what

checking to see this nodes

back to 120 about to just fold it in no reason to keep playing

Unknown

Scaling and MMR needs to be addressed.

But.

One thing that I am starting to get a little concerned about with the introduction of Phoenix.

Certain people in certain alliances have both SS and OML in the 300s with some having both in the 400s. With Phoenix, it shouldn't be too long before we see a 450 OML, 450 SS, and a 450 JGP. Yikes.

rbdragon

To those who answered me specifically, thank you. Like I said, I didn't understand why those who weren't ready for 4's and 5's opened Legendary tokens. Now I have more insight.

slidecage

Okay i got a question dont know if anyone will know the answer on one of my account

old man logan 255
rest of the people are 90s for the fun of it

last nod went from 160 to 190 (about a 30 pt jump)

I have the ISO If i took say 10 to 15 of them from 90 to 120 or even 130 would i see another massive jump or do you think no jump since my highest is still old man

of all of the 3 stars who would you push first got a lot of them cover right (besides fist where i only have 1 pink)

EDIT

nothing to lose so just going to take everyone to 120 and then see what happens. Should have 360,000 ISO left (from 750,000) maybe move some up to 166 or would that be a stupid idea

man this game needs a level all button this is going to take at least an hour

dr tinykittylove

slidecage wrote:

Okay i got a question dont know if anyone will know the answer on one of my account

old man logan 255
rest of the people are 90s for the fun of it

last nod went from 160 to 190 (about a 30 pt jump)

I have the ISO If i took say 10 to 15 of them from 90 to 120 or even 130 would i see another massive jump or do you think no jump since my highest is still old man

of all of the 3 stars who would you push first got a lot of them cover right (besides fist where i only have 1 pink)

EDIT

nothing to lose so just going to take everyone to 120 and then see what happens. Should have 360,000 ISO left (from 750,000) maybe move some up to 166 or would that be a stupid idea

man this game needs a level all button this is going to take at least an hour

Pick the ones that you find most useful and bring them up first, can also try out two of the better boosted 3*s for the week, take them to 120 and test them in pvp/sim/pve. There may be small adjustments to enemy levels after, but it shouldn't be a problem since your 5* will still be much higher.

Don't be scared of the big numbers. I often take on level 200-300 enemies with characters that are not buffed for the week - sometimes they are even better than the buffed characters.

You can pm me if you want to discuss this more. Good luck!

RoboDuck

rbdragon wrote:

What I'm confused about is this - if you are a 2*-3* transitioner, why are you even opening legendary tokens?

If you're done the 3* transition and want to move on to 4*, why would you be gimping your roster - after all, a 4* at level 120 is not very good.

If you get a 5*, it means you were seeking it out by opening legendary tokens. The only time you should be opening them is if you're ready to.

Think of how much easier it will be to transition if you are collecting these tokens all the while continuing to build your 3* roster. Once ready, BOOM - opening spree and most likely you'll get a playable 4* or 2 out of it.

The one thing I do agree with completely is that the number of characters to determine scaling needs to increase. Make it the top 10% of your roster (round up always - 85 slots = average of top 9).

But don't be afraid of a challenge if your roster is actually able to handle one and the only stopping you is you. "Scary teams" in PVP aren't really that scary a lot of times since the AI is dumb, and I'm pretty sure PVE considers your gameplay, so if you get slaughtered, the levels should come down to a more reasonable level.

You open those Legendary tokens because every single PvE event has a 4* essential node. Why should the players have to hurt their own chances of placing well in an event & not have 4 stars?

I just am a 120 day 3 star transitioner, pretty decent roster, got 2 OML covers this week & am more than likely gonna sell them so I don't totally screw up my game.

That is just dumb. I just wanted the 4 star covers so I could fully compete in the PvE events.

rbdragon

RoboDuck wrote:

You open those Legendary tokens because every single PvE event has a 4* essential node. Why should the players have to hurt their own chances of placing well in an event & not have 4 stars?

Now I really feel dumb - I never even thought of that.....

RoboDuck wrote:

I just am a 120 day 3 star transitioner, pretty decent roster, got 2 OML covers this week & am more than likely gonna sell them so I don't totally screw up my game.

That is just dumb. I just wanted the 4 star covers so I could fully compete in the PvE events.

This really really bothers me to no end. I don't think 5* covers should expire ever. No one should have to sell off these covers given how rare they are. If someone wants to, that's fine. But they should garner a helluva lot more than 2K too (I'd say they should sell for 13 CP personally).

Pessi

I pulled OML last night. I have a healthy roster of 3's and 4's. But I'm still in the process of leveling my 3's to 166 (22 at 135/7 currently and my 4's are under covered. My best is xforce at 137 with 6 covers.

To boost my 3's and gain covers for those I lack (Beast in this PvE's case) I need to place as high as possible, and the more essentials I have the better. I have 3 covers for Kingpin so I have a full house for the essentials.

Most of my 4's have come from Legend tokens, the more of those I have the better. I was collecting 3*'s before I was finished leveling my 2's. The main difference is the huge jump in levels, at least with the 3's I could level all to 70 to make things equal.

I'm not going out of my way to get the legend tokens, because I need to push this way to get my main goal, progression of my 3's. The 4's are a bonus that don't effect my scaling yet, though xforce

I guess people open tokens because they want to. I know I do. Every PvE i tell myself to open them up at the end, but don't. Same with Taco's. Every cover is ISO i can use to push further.

I will wait before I roster OML, and see how it goes. I certainly won't use it.. one cover red would get annihilated in PvP. I would love some sort of difinitive proof this won't effect my play before I roster, but as with most things I'll just wait and see. I won't sell it. Same as I wouldn't sell a four star when I was in 2-3* transition.

puppychow

Crowl wrote:

Just rostered my first 5* to avoid it expiring and it seems to have seriously clobbered my pvp, after only 3 seed teams the lowest team I could find to queue had an average level of about 180 with most other teams being more like a level 240 average and more than a little tricky for my 120'ish team.

Edit - Doing a quick test in the current lightning round, once I got through the seed teams it was straight onto max covered 4* teams supplemented by 200+ boosted characters.

I had a similar experience when I finally added OML to my roster. LR was out of whack like you experienced, and to me it is the strongest evidence of 5* effect on pvp mmr.

Pve events wasn't really noticeable, as my buffed characters are already at 240 or higher.

That said, after a few days the LR MMR went back to normal. It's just a matter of time.

wingX

After obtaining Sliver Surfer from Legendary Token from Taco Vault and trying out my newly obtain 5*, I have to say it have great effect on scaling have Shield SIm as it has no boosted characters to help, the same goes with character PVP abd PVE which depend on character boosted characters that you have, may deem whether it is managable or not.

I am F2P player and now highest lvl character is around 110 (I admit I soft capped my 3*).

For those who have 5* and deciding whether to sell their 5* beacause of scaling, I think it depend on your play style and how you see future 'relationship' between you and the game.

For me I like playing this game casually, with some light but not over the top challenge and don't really like to feel too stress playing this game. And more importaintly, I like to keep it fun. Thus I have decided to sell away my 5* because I see that for my play style, it will take forever to obtain ncover for usable 5*.
Even if rostering 5* won't affect scaling, it will be OP to use any 5* in battle if my characters are under level and as my 5* only have 1 cover, it will not be fun or interesting to use him/her. Even if I will to chase after 5*, how long will it takes, and will I still have interest in this game by then, will I be playing /doing something else etc?
On the bright side, now I have extra slot for other non 5* character.

apmonte

Yea, I've been screwed by this as well. I've been playing for 70 days and am working on my 2 star roster. I've already spent a fair amount of money on this game getting roster spots. My highest characters are level 94. I picked up OML Red with my command points two nights ago and have now seen a significant change in the strength of my opponents. The first mission in Growth Industry has me fighting a level 113 Iron Man. Conversely, my friends similar roster, as well as my wife's far more developed roster (191 days) is facing level 82 opponents in that mission.

It's not as if having a single cover, non-leveled 5-star on my roster gives me any real advantage that justifies the increase in opponent levels. OML makes a great punching bag, but doesn't really bring anything else to the fight. Prior to getting OML, my 2-star team beat a 1-cover SS in verses with little difficulty - just another punching bag.

I'm basically going to be forced to sell my 5-star cover due to the increased difficulty I'm facing. They really need to fix this scaling issue or change the legendary pulls to prevent 5-star awards to lower level rosters. Maybe even allow people to sell their 5-stars for another legendary token or other means of obtaining a 4-star character that won't unjustly affect scaling. Maybe don't let you use the 5-star character until you meet minimum requirements like a maxed out 3-star. There's a lot of options that wouldn't screw over a large portion of the player base.

It's starting to look like my legendary token was worth 2000 ISO. Not really that legendary.

Unknown

15 of my top heroes later in the SECOND node of the Ant-Man event, I can again confirm that rostering 5*s has devastating effects on a roster of level 130 3*s.

I admittedly hoped the ridiculous levels I was seeing in the first and second nodes were not indicative of the actual power levels, but alas, my two unusable 5*s have apparently given the impression that I have two level 255 heroes that are actually usable.

My advice, as much as it pains me to suggest it, is to dump your 5*s before you have a chance to think about what you're doing, unless of course you've got a roster that you know can handle the added 255x levels of scaling.

Good luck to all with your latest "difficult but fun" decision making. I hope no one accidentally wins the most powerful cards in the game at a point where taking possession of them ruins your game, a statement I never thought I would make in all of my decades of playing video games…

DBC