Today's 4* DDQ Feedback [Sep 20 - Nick Fury vs. Magneto]

Quebbster

pheregas wrote:

I wasn't able to succeed with my 3/1/1 Fury, even with boosted damage every try after about a dozen tries.

I may submit a ticket though, only because after Mags insta-killed me with Polarizing Force, he'd then launch Magnetized Projectiles.

I was already dead, so why the Magneto version of a tea bagging? This happened on three separate occasions.

It's just how the AI works. It checks during the beginning of the turn how much AP it has and then triggers all powers it can (unless the AP is being saved for another more expensive power of course).
It can sometimes work in your favor, like when Hulk or Sentry have already killed you yet still trigger their red powers and take themselves out. A lot of the time it's just annoying though.

JVReal

Took me 5 tries with my NF level 140, 0/5/2. Boosted Blue/Purple max. Got Demolition off twice, took a Red to the face, and he threw out his protect tiles, but the second demolition took him out.

Forgot to boost on the first fight, if I had, I would have won on the first shot... live and learn.

The suckiest part of it all, I cashed in the Legendary token and got a

blinktag

Omega Red wrote:

I hate to be THAT **** who tells you this but if you have been playing for that long and you still have that few covers for x-force and Fury then you haven't been trying that hard to progress. That's OK, we all play and climb at different rhythms but don't come here to lament yourself and fish for sympathy because by now you should have the covers and levels to beat this node.

Whether you "hate" it or not, you managed to be that guy. Well done. \s

I've been here for a year-ish too, and my NF is seriously under-covered. I think my 3* roster speaks well of my activity, but XF is my most covered at 3/3/3. I have newer 4* with more covers than NF. I get by, and although I have every 4* (except Dino), none are covered enough to be sufficiently effective.

One of the consequences of a significant number of random draws is some people are going to be on the bottom end of the bell curve. It's the way statistics work. There is no evidence of D3 "normalizing" draws for those players. Yeah, some of it's effort, but the continuing effort for someone already on the bottom of the bell curve is much higher than someone even near the median. The gap only grows over time.

So stop being an entitled tinykitty tinypuppy smallgoldfish littleweasel and understand that not everyone is as awesome as you are.

Malcrof

aesthetocyst wrote:

pheregas wrote:

I wasn't able to succeed with my 3/1/1 Fury, even with boosted damage every try after about a dozen tries.

I may submit a ticket though, only because after Mags insta-killed me with Polarizing Force, he'd then launch Magnetized Projectiles.

I was already dead, so why the Magneto version of a tea bagging? This happened on three separate occasions.

Just how it goes. Doesn't seem to check for match end after any action that inflicts damage. Similar to how players often get massive cascades in their favor after the AI is dead. Waste of time or "celebration" ... or both.

My 1/1/3 got him down under 1500 once out of my 5 attempts.. and he did exactly the same thing, used abilities on my corpse.. i believe he was trying to tear the metal studs out of my Fury's eyepatch for his collection

mgallop

Banged my head against it a bunch of times w/ a lvl 111 2-1-2 Fury. Then decided to open my other Legendaries, got a Fury Blue, and my 127 2-2-2 Fury got it on the 2nd try. Escape Plan if it procs saves you from Mags Blue, and you just need to deny yellow, deny red, and demo the **** out of that jerk.

TxMoose

good to see some thought this one was easier. myself I thought this one was quite a bit harder. but my 2/2/1 fury is pretty weak compared to my 2/4/1 xforce. had fury at max level 111 for his covers and I didn't have a ton of time yesterday to spend on it. out of 7 tries I only got his health under 10K twice. best was down into the 7Ks. 4 times he got yellow off and every one of my abilities become -1 - any time he got yellow off that meant I didn't get him under 12K, so maybe next time for me. I thought this one was harder because he still had 2 powers that one shot me but at a cheaper cost. and even cheaper if the teamup cd is out there. no delusions about my 2/2/- IW having a chance either. after xforce, my best are antman, starlord and hb - carnage not bad either.

Cousin Simpson

I think I went with a slightly different approach than most people, since I'd run out of 20% all match damage boosts but still had some leftovers from years ago:
+2 All * 2 / + 3 All (ancient) / +20% Mutant damage

My Fury is 2/3/2 147(?), and after a bajillion tries, I took out Magneto. Needed both Escape Plan and AA to resolve -- the latter to create a protect tile that softened the AI's match damage. Probably deployed Demo twice, and the AI like a chump fell into it twice. Of course, I needed an accommodating board, but I'm now the proud owner of 0/0/1 Thing!

Unknown

This one was way easier than the Wolverine node last week. Did it on the first try with a 140 NF. Deny red/blue, try to prioritize blue, so that you can use demolition. I ended up using it 2x, and Magneto pretty much killed himself by matching the trap tiles.

Turbosmooth

Had a 4/1/1 Fury. Tried twice and failed. Bought a blue and failed two more times. Bought another blue, leveled to 166 and finally won after two more tries.
I cheated by spending 5000 HP, but I wanted to get a stronger Fury anyway. Half my 4*s are ready for a fight, but Fury was borderline close. I probably could have won with just 4/2/1 with a dozen attempts. I don't think I have other borderline 4*'s. They are either ready or not.

Omega Red

blinktag wrote:

Whether you "hate" it or not, you managed to be that guy. Well done. \s

I've been here for a year-ish too, and my NF is seriously under-covered. I think my 3* roster speaks well of my activity, but XF is my most covered at 3/3/3. I have newer 4* with more covers than NF. I get by, and although I have every 4* (except Dino), none are covered enough to be sufficiently effective.

The guy I originally quoted said he has been for almost two years. Anyone who has been here since the beginning should have by now a playable X-force, Invisible woman and Nick Fury, even if they have gone casual for long periods of time. A single year is a different deal, but still doable with serious dedication.

blinktag wrote:

One of the consequences of a significant number of random draws is some people are going to be on the bottom end of the bell curve. It's the way statistics work. There is no evidence of D3 "normalizing" draws for those players. Yeah, some of it's effort, but the continuing effort for someone already on the bottom of the bell curve is much higher than someone even near the median. The gap only grows over time.

That's the way statistics work, but not the way probability works. No matter how many times you flip a coin and get heads, the probability that you get either heads or tails in the next event remains 50-50.

blinktag wrote:

So stop being an entitled tinykitty tinypuppy smallgoldfish littleweasel and understand that not everyone is as awesome as you are.

Me being more awesome than you still doesn't entitle you to an easy four star cover, not when you have chosen not to pursue it in the past through the traditional means like everyone else did.

udonomefoo

Turbosmooth wrote:

Had a 4/1/1 Fury. Tried twice and failed. Bought a blue and failed two more times. Bought another blue, leveled to 166 and finally won after two more tries.
I cheated by spending 5000 HP, but I wanted to get a stronger Fury anyway. Half my 4*s are ready for a fight, but Fury was borderline close. I probably could have won with just 4/2/1 with a dozen attempts. I don't think I have other borderline 4*'s. They are either ready or not.

It occurred to me last night as I contemplated doing the same thing that this was the whole reason for the node and the difficulty scale in the first place. Wonder how much their hp sales spike on the 4* node day.

My 3/1/0 Fury was not able to prevail. I tried about 20 times through the day , but the closest I got was about 3k . Most times I didn't even get him below 12k . I think the biggest key is having at least one cover in each ability (and lots in demolition). It really hurt picking up tons of purple for nothing when there were no yellow and blue matches.

IceIX

theHappyDance wrote:

30 tries and still no dice. Screw you D3. You all suck, and thanks for not giving a rats **** about your players. And thanks again for leading us on for 6 months pretending that this was going to be anything bordering on a genuine part of the 3-4* transition. Again, screw you, you colossal jerks.

Really? This is about as unproductive of feedback or conversation as you could possibly ever get on a forum without just flat out resorting to death threats. Take a posting vacation please. 72 hours should do as a cool off.

generalTsobot

I had an admittedly lucky starting board and won this event with my level 91 0/3/3 Fury on my third try, using +2 b/p and +2 all AP boosts. I didn't even bother boosting on my first two runs, as I used them to feel out whether this event was worth my time.

Even though it seemed that I had a lucky board, this didn't feel as cheap as the X-Force Wolvie node last week. My Wolvie has more covers than Fury, but in the wrong places (only 1 black cover) to be able to take down Cyclops.

I'm sure it's been said many times already, but for those of us that are firmly in 3* land with few usable 4* characters, the 4* DPD nodes feel like they primarily require lots of luck to win.

Edit: I should add that I am certainly grateful that the 4* DPD nodes exist at all, but the difficulty is a tad high due to their reliance on luck for a roster like mine that should be squarely in the 4* transition. I'll reserve further judgement until the next few 4* DPD nodes, to see whether these first two -- for which I had vastly different experiences -- were aberrations.

Tatercat

I was actually able to do this with a level 115 Nick Fury, 1/1/3. I did about 4 or 5 tries with boosts and the closest I got was down to 3000, so I gave up. Later, when bored and waiting for PVE to refresh, I tried again with no boosts for the heck of it, and surprisingly pulled it off. Good opening board and two 5 tile matches during play, managed to keep him from firing off any actives at all. Escape Plan was the mvp here, I didn't even realize how low I had gotten him until the VICTORY sign suddenly flashed, I couldn't believe it.

Ended up with a Sam Wilson, my first for him. Along with a Iceman and Antman from the PVE , it ended up being a pretty good way to start off the week.

blinktag

Omega Red wrote:

blinktag wrote:

One of the consequences of a significant number of random draws is some people are going to be on the bottom end of the bell curve. It's the way statistics work. There is no evidence of D3 "normalizing" draws for those players. Yeah, some of it's effort, but the continuing effort for someone already on the bottom of the bell curve is much higher than someone even near the median. The gap only grows over time.

That's the way statistics work, but not the way probability works. No matter how many times you flip a coin and get heads, the probability that you get either heads or tails in the next event remains 50-50.

I wasn't discussing probability per se, but the cascading effects of probability.

Consider two players Al and Bob. Both made the 3* transition about the same time. Both are equally strong and dedicated.

Al pulls 4* characters at an above normal rate. Statistically, someone has to, and it's him. Sure, there is reversion to the mean, and all of that, but the overall distribution for multiple equal probability draws will be normal. Some will pull better than others. (I'm looking at you, Riddy.) (As an aside, this is the same statistical effect attributed to the "success" of most stock-pickers. But that's another story.) At even one standard deviation above normal, Al has pulled better than 85% of other players with the same number of draws.

Bob opens the same number of gold heroic and event tokens, but his luck isn't as awesome. Even with the same number of pulls, his draws are below average. Again, even one standard deviation below normal, he's worse off than 85% of other players.

Now, given there unequal "starting" positions, who is best situated to *earn* the next 4* character, given equal effort? Which of these two is more likely to be able—given otherwise equal effort and skill—to earn more heroic token draws and achieve additional 4* rewards? Even if they end up with mean draws for the rest of forever, Al will have a large *and increasing* lead over Bob because he's able to earn more draws and more static placement/progression rewards.

That was my point with that statement: that the consequences of probability have a cascading effect that is exacerbated over time, leading to greater disparities between otherwise equal players, even holding all else constant.

Ruinate

blinktag wrote:

Omega Red wrote:

blinktag wrote:

One of the consequences of a significant number of random draws is some people are going to be on the bottom end of the bell curve. It's the way statistics work. There is no evidence of D3 "normalizing" draws for those players. Yeah, some of it's effort, but the continuing effort for someone already on the bottom of the bell curve is much higher than someone even near the median. The gap only grows over time.

That's the way statistics work, but not the way probability works. No matter how many times you flip a coin and get heads, the probability that you get either heads or tails in the next event remains 50-50.

I wasn't discussing probability per se, but the cascading effects of probability.

Consider two players Al and Bob. Both made the 3* transition about the same time. Both are equally strong and dedicated.

Al pulls 4* characters at an above normal rate. Statistically, someone has to, and it's him. Sure, there is reversion to the mean, and all of that, but the overall distribution for multiple equal probability draws will be normal. Some will pull better than others. (I'm looking at you, Riddy.) (As an aside, this is the same statistical effect attributed to the "success" of most stock-pickers. But that's another story.) At even one standard deviation above normal, Al has pulled better than 85% of other players with the same number of draws.

Bob opens the same number of gold heroic and event tokens, but his luck isn't as awesome. Even with the same number of pulls, his draws are below average. Again, even one standard deviation below normal, he's worse off than 85% of other players.

Now, given there unequal "starting" positions, who is best situated to *earn* the next 4* character, given equal effort? Which of these two is more likely to be able—given otherwise equal effort and skill—to earn more heroic token draws and achieve additional 4* rewards? Even if they end up with mean draws for the rest of forever, Al will have a large *and increasing* lead over Bob because he's able to earn more draws and more static placement/progression rewards.

That was my point with that statement: that the consequences of probability have a cascading effect that is exacerbated over time, leading to greater disparities between otherwise equal players, even holding all else constant.

I don't think tokens come in fast enough for this to cause such an effect. Unless they both had a large amount of tokens to start with and Al pulls significantly better than Bob.

blinktag

Ruinate wrote:

I don't think tokens come in fast enough for this to cause such an effect. Unless they both had a large amount of tokens to start with and Al pulls significantly better than Bob.

It doesn't really matter how fast they come in. I'm suggesting there exists an inflection point after a certain number of pulls such that Al has an advantage over Bob in that he's able to generate more pulls and more static rewards because of historical pulls. Time wasn't part of the argument.

Maybe a quick simulation? (We can play with time this way, too.)

JS Fiddle.
x-axis represents count of 4* pulls @ 5% chance; y-axis is the count of players (out of 1K) with that many pulls.

The default in the simulation is 100 gold pulls, which is reasonable doable in two months, even with a 2* roster. You can play with it and tweak the odds and number of pulls.

You can see the normal distribution of players. As expected, some pull much more than others.
Go 1/3 of the way from the bottom. It's probably about 3x 4* pulls. This is where Bob is.
Now go 1/3 of the way from the top. It's probably about 8x 4* pulls. This is where Al is, after the same number of pulls (100, in the default case).

At some point, enough of a gap exists that the top players accelerate the gap.

mpqr7

I lost with my 3/1/1 fury. Then I won blue from the pve legendary. Used my 3/2/1 fury about 15 times and eventually won another fury, bringing him to 3/3/1. Só there we go.

itstime1234

mpqr7 wrote:

I lost with my 3/1/1 fury. Then I won blue from the pve legendary. Used my 3/2/1 fury about 15 times and eventually won another fury, bringing him to 3/3/1. Só there we go.

Nice Story and congrats. I got 2 legendary tokens on sunday and both came up green jean grey. I know a few others who opened multiple legendary tokens and got the same cover. Wonder if there is some glitch.

IceIX

itstime1234 wrote:

Nice Story and congrats. I got 2 legendary tokens on sunday and both came up green jean grey. I know a few others who opened multiple legendary tokens and got the same cover. Wonder if there is some glitch.

Not according to our analytics. Just random distribution being random.