So how are 4* Tranistioners suppose to earn Legendary tokens

Vhailorx

Morph3us and TxMoose:

You both discuss the devs apparent definition of a transitioner. Do you think the devs are right to define "transitioner" as someone whose 4* roster has already supplanted their 3* roster?

It seems to me that the key phase of transition is the immediately preceding period, when a player switches (transitions!) from having undercovered characters of the next tier to have usable characters of the next tier.

I think we can agree that the new 4* few node does very little for the players that I describe.

simonsez

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice claimed that it would be difficult with 4* with 1 cover but doable with a handful of covers.

I don't remember the word "doable" in his remarks. I remember him saying they'll "have an extremely difficult time of it". Is that a phrase that suggests an optimistic outlook to you? If someone I know is in the hospital, and I'm told "he's having an extremely difficult time of it", that's when I go into the closet and make sure my black suit still fits.

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

Morph3us and TxMoose:

You both discuss the devs apparent definition of a transitioner. Do you think the devs are right to define "transitioner" as someone whose 4* roster has already supplanted their 3* roster?

It seems to me that the key phase of transition is the immediately preceding period, when a player switches (transitions!) from having undercovered characters of the next tier to have usable characters of the next tier.

I think we can agree that the new 4* few node does very little for the players that I describe.

I don't think the devs have said anything like that (that I know of). I think Morpheus was interpreting their actions as evidence to support that as a philosophy that it seems that they have and I was commenting on the general subject. and I agree, although in the back of my head I'm reminded that my 120, 2/4/1 completed it. still think it was too hard - had some serious luck without which, I'd have been toast. 2s to 3s are a much bigger power jump than 3s to 4s...until the 4 is fully covered and leveled, at which time you are no longer transitioning.

Marty17

Can't wait for my 1 cover to be featured (& battered)!

buddy2034

Even winning a token may not help. I've earned two and both gave me the Nick Fury blues. One of three characters that are already covered... It makes grinding PVE a bit of a disappointment, but I suppose them's the breaks...

slidecage

simonsez wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice claimed that it would be difficult with 4* with 1 cover but doable with a handful of covers.

I don't remember the word "doable" in his remarks. I remember him saying they'll "have an extremely difficult time of it". Is that a phrase that suggests an optimistic outlook to you? If someone I know is in the hospital, and I'm told "he's having an extremely difficult time of it", that's when I go into the closet and make sure my black suit still fits.

your BATMAN ?

simonsez

slidecage wrote:

your BATMAN ?

Yes, I'm the hero this forum deserves...

throvolos

slidecage wrote:

your BATMAN ?

That's "YOU'RE" not "your". Jeebus. Remember to use ALL CAPS when using correct grammar.

Despite being infected with the Grammar Police, people are forgetting that adding an event to DDQ is ANOTHER way to get a 4star. In addition, you can now get a 4star from PvE, which is also new. You could always get 4stars in PvP.

Why are people complaining there are new ways to get 4stars FOR FREE? (correct grammar, and for emphasis )

Yes, the DDQ event is ridiculously hard. It seems like you have to have a maxxed out 4star in order to even have a chance. I personally think it is designed for people who have a lot of 4stars who want to start getting 5stars. It seems like a method for 4star->5star transition, not a 3star-4star transition.

I for one am very very happy to be able to get a FREE 4star through PvE, for the first time ever in MPQ. I'm very unhappy at the new DDQ, but then again I'm in the 3star ->4star transition and have no chance at winning it.

LegendReborn

SnowcaTT wrote:

ShionSinX wrote:

Doesn't mean it's anywhere close to what ice said here in the forum for the entire player base.
 

IceIX wrote:

Philly79 wrote:

What levels can we expect for the 4* in ddq?

Still being tweaked, but expect "Level ouch".  The idea is that you're going to need a real live 4* character in there, and a 1/0/0 70 is going to have an extremely difficult time of it.

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

So the players who are transitioning 3*->4* don't have much shot at the rotation for legendary tokens?

Depends on the 4*.  I've beaten many of the nodes with their current balancing with a copy of my current roster from Live.  And as anyone who has seen my roster knows, I'm not live ng la vida 4* yet.

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Are we talking half way covered or just 4* with 1-3 covers because that's a massive difference.

Here's my current roster, for reference:
http://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/IceIX/

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=32849&start=40#p411275

IceIX wrote:

...there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*.  It's by no means easy.  I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there.  I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do.  The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

Ice has 4 semi covered 4*s, with the rest sporting 1-4 covers, so unless 4 now covers "many", I don't know how else we were supposed to interpret that.

For the record, I don't think "extremely difficult" translates to literally impossible. I'd like to see how many miracle players have beaten the 4* ddq with 1 cover.

TxMoose

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice has 4 semi covered 4*s, with the rest sporting 1-4 covers, so unless 4 now covers "many", I don't know how else we were supposed to interpret that.

For the record, I don't think "extremely difficult" translates to literally impossible. I'd like to see how many miracle players have beaten the 4* ddq with 1 cover.

my guess is that its zero because my guess is that "most" everyone that has one has at least the 1/1/1 you get in the daily resupply and if you haven't gotten at least that far, this might not even be on your radar screen. i know i had exactly zero xf pulls before the resupply covers came in. but i had some others. I bet next week there will be scores more players with a 1 cover fury than a 1 cover xf.

also, i don't think ice ever claimed he completed every one. pretty sure he said he was able to do some of them. like i said earlier, his xforce, IW, and fury are probably his best chances with 4thor possibly having an outside shot with a lot of luck and enough tries. if he was able to make it with those and not the others, i don't think he said anything deceptive.

SnowcaTT

TxMoose wrote:

also, i don't think ice ever claimed he completed every one. pretty sure he said he was able to do some of them. like i said earlier, his xforce, IW, and fury are probably his best chances with 4thor possibly having an outside shot with a lot of luck and enough tries. if he was able to make it with those and not the others, i don't think he said anything deceptive.

To again quote IceIX:
" I've beaten many of the nodes with their current balancing with a copy of my current roster from Live. "

And to again look at IceIX roster (http://mpq.gamependium.com/rosters/IceIX/)
This is a roster with 127 (6 cover), 120 (8 cover), 115/111 (5 covers) as 2nd-5th best 4*'s. Supposedly this roster has beaten "many" of the nodes. What we don't know is how many times this level of characters attempted to take these nodes before they beat them.

This roster/winning claim seems to contradict people's experience, unless these nodes weren't run many-many more times than the "many" beaten nodes. Ice's 3/4/2 level 188 XF is biggest 4* by far - and I know people -did- beat it with a similar XF, but I had a team-mate with a better XF that tried 30 times and never beat it.

I have a sneaking suspicion that these 5, 6, 8 covered 4*'s originally were facing 166's. Those would be challenging with a low level under-covered 4*, whereas 270's seem nearly impossible with low leveled under-covered 3*'s. The other possibility is that future nodes will be much easier.

herm1978

optimus2861 wrote:

herm1978 wrote:

Do not compare MPQ to FF, with auto play and clear tickets I needed a fraction of the time I've spent on MPQ to get multiple 5* characters.

I confess I'm impressed, and don't know how you managed that. I find farming biometrics a real chore beyond 3*. I don't take that game too seriously though, and I do love that it's so very light on player competition. You can skip PVP entirely and not miss out on much.

I admit I have spent some money but definitely not more than 30-40 USD. But that game at least makes me want to spend some money. I've played MPQ for >600 days and not spent half of what FF got in a few months.

I agree that FF does a much better job at making you want to spend money; MPQ seems to make you feel like you must spend money. There's a difference, and D3 seems either deaf to it or they've consciously chosen the latter path. The difference in how much in-game currency the games give away for free is astonishing, too.

Like I said, auto play and clear tickets . Auto play when I'm doing other stuff at home and clear tickets to spend the energy I got over night, before work. Or other times when I have excess energy.

MPQ is more fun to play though, or else I would have continued staying away when I took a few months off.

GrumpySmurf1002

wymtime wrote:

Here is a question for you then what level do you expect a 4* to have a good shot at beating a level 270 character with 15 covers? How many covers do you think the 4* should have to be competitive in this battle? I looked at your roster and if you are saying you are winning your battles with a 4* with 6 covers at level 120 or less and you are not wiping out multiple times in the process we would love to know your secret. Powers with just 2 covers just don't do a lot of damage. With 13 4* out how many of theses battles can you actually win?

Just to play devil's advocate here (and apologies if someone else suggested this already), but how do we know every battle is this bad? Cyclops is an elite, self-feeding 3*, and the opponent of Ice's strongest character.

Hypothetically, a 270 Quicksilver would not present nearly as much of a challenge to a lower leveled character (except for chewing through the health), since he can't one-shot you like Cyclops can across two different colors.

I mean, I'm sure the next one is just as hard relatively speaking, but Cyclops is probably as hard a 3* opponent as you could find at 270.

TxMoose

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

Just to play devil's advocate here (and apologies if someone else suggested this already), but how do we know every battle is this bad? Cyclops is an elite, self-feeding 3*, and the opponent of Ice's strongest character.

Hypothetically, a 270 Quicksilver would not present nearly as much of a challenge to a lower leveled character (except for chewing through the health), since he can't one-shot you like Cyclops can across two different colors.

I mean, I'm sure the next one is just as hard relatively speaking, but Cyclops is probably as hard a 3* opponent as you could find at 270.

good point - if they stick with 270s, I just hope they stick with similar ability colors on both sides. that was huge in this one - you could actually use the yellow/black you were denying. as I mentioned elsewhere, I'm concerned when kingpin faces daredevil (that matchup is kind of assumed by many), chasing yellow/black while denying red/blue is gonna be rough. of course the next one may not even be 270, so we just don't know.

wade66

The way the community is reacting to this already is a bit baffling. We haven't even had legendary tokens floating around for a week yet and people are upset about not being able to get them.

Most of those doing the complaining have seen how D3 works. They will spend this initial season gathering the data on the number of legendary tokens earned, and run it against their projected numbers. If changes need to be made they will be after enough info has been gathered. We should all be able to agree that they have gotten better at this over the last couple of months.

This is also most likely the case with the four star ddq. Xforce was picked for the as he is the oldest four star, and most likely the most completed one on most people's rosters. Before demonizing the devs, let's see if they make the needed adjustments by the next run.

It's in their best interest to initially make the node too hard and tone down the difficulty, including more people in future runs than it is making it too easy and locking players out.

boldfacedfemme

buddy2034 wrote:

Even winning a token may not help. I've earned two and both gave me the Nick Fury blues. One of three characters that are already covered... It makes grinding PVE a bit of a disappointment, but I suppose them's the breaks...

Ha! I did all that grinding to 70k in Hulk pve for the token. My reward? Yellow Baglady.

I swear, I heard my phone weep.

morph3us

Vhailorx wrote:

Morph3us and TxMoose:

You both discuss the devs apparent definition of a transitioner. Do you think the devs are right to define "transitioner" as someone whose 4* roster has already supplanted their 3* roster?

It seems to me that the key phase of transition is the immediately preceding period, when a player switches (transitions!) from having undercovered characters of the next tier to have usable characters of the next tier.

I think we can agree that the new 4* few node does very little for the players that I describe.

I'd agree with you on that point, Vhailorx. Absolutely, the key phase of transition is that point before a 4* roster supplants a 3* roster, because that's the most difficult part of the transition. I think the point I was trying to make is that the 3* to 4* transition at the moment feels very much like the 2* to 3* transition felt before DDQ was around. It was slow, difficult, and completely arbitrary as to whether you'd end up with sufficient covers in enough 3*s to make the transition at that stage.

The difficulty is that we're now at a stage where the 3* to 4* transition is actually becoming a real phase for a substantial part of the playerbase, and there's no meaningful route to that transition apart from the 1K PvP progression (which is not as difficult to achieve as some people seem to think, but it is still slow to accrue sufficient covers that way). I think people were expecting the 4* DDQ to be similar to the Big Enchilada, and have been disappointed accordingly because of the difficulty.

I don't think the key phase of the 3* to 4* transition that you've highlighted has been completely addressed by the devs yet, but I don't think the 4* DDQ node was meant to address the early, key phase of the transition.

TxMoose wrote:

one, big enchilada can be routinely done with 94s 95% of the time or more. that is the expectation they set with what they chose to put in place for the 2->3 transitioner. I've never heard of a 166 team wiping on big enchilada but I'm guessing if you put a **** enough team together it would be possible. I've heard of several 270 xforces needing multiple tries at it. the problem is the expectation they set by BE and the previous discussion doesn't necessarily match up with the match they put us in. I'm not angry or upset, partly because I got very lucky, but that doesn't mean that the feelings of frustration aren't warranted, which wasn't your point anyway, just saying.

I agree with you, as well, TxMoose. The thing is, to follow on from my reply to Vhailorx above, I don't think the Big Enchilada is meant to be similar to the 4* DDQ node. The Big Enchilada is calibrated to be difficult for a maxed 2* roster, and relatively achievable for a properly transitioning 3* roster, and that's because it gives out a fixed 3* cover. The 4* DDQ gives out a Legendary Token. I think people are focusing on the fact that there's a 95% (soon to be 90%) chance that it will give out a 4* cover, and therefore think it's supposed to help them kickstart their transition. I don't think this is an appropriate view of the Legendary Token. It has a 5% (soon to be 10%) chance of giving out a 5* cover. In terms of token drop probability in the context of MPQ, that's a huge drop rate. From that perspective, I'd argue that the Legendary Token is there to help people complete their 4* transition, not start it, and then move them on to 5*s.

If the 4* DDQ node only gave a fixed 4* cover, I'd expect the difficulty to be calibrated lower, but a Legendary Token is much more than that.

Dauthi

Something to think about here is that the 1* to 2* transition is easy, while 2* to 3* is harder. The rewards granted also vastly increase as you complete your roster of either transition.

So why is anyone surprised that the same mechanic is in play? the 3* to 4* transition is harder than the previous. The more 4*s you have covered the faster you gain rewards to further your progress. The 4* DDQs are most efficient for the people finishing their transition to 4* because it will take a lot of tokens to get a cover you don't already have , and lets face it, a 4* every 5 days is a ton of progress.

The 4* DDQs are a godsend to me, as I have had little progress over the last 6-ish months due to completion of 3*s and having to rely on lucky token pulls (lets face it, it seems like most of the time the 1k progression reward is an old 4*). I think the 1v1 aspect for them is also interesting, though I wonder how a 1v1 when you are forced to use Professor X will go

Dragon_Nexus

Dauthi wrote:

]The 4* DDQs are most efficient for the people finishing their transition to 4* because it will take a lot of tokens to get a cover you don't already have

I think this is the issue.
Rightly or wrongly people assumed this would help people begin their transition, whereas really it's as you say, it's helping people who already have 10+ covers for each 4* finish off the character. Hopefully.
But even then I'm not sure how it helps. If you're at the stage where you have all the 4* characters at a level capable enough to break through the node, you don't get a cover...you get a legendary token. Sure you might get a 5* but you might also get a useless 4*.

It goes against the existing format of DDQ whereby all you need is one cover for the daily 3* character and a team good enough to beat the survival node to get that day's reward.
The new system requires you to have a highly levelled, highly covered version of the 4* they've picked out to *maybe* get a cover you need. It's not just the node itself that's more difficult, the system geared around it is much harder.

Dauthi

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

]The 4* DDQs are most efficient for the people finishing their transition to 4* because it will take a lot of tokens to get a cover you don't already have

It goes against the existing format of DDQ whereby all you need is one cover for the daily 3* character and a team good enough to beat the survival node to get that day's reward.
The new system requires you to have a highly levelled, highly covered version of the 4* they've picked out to *maybe* get a cover you need. It's not just the node itself that's more difficult, the system geared around it is much harder.

Still, that isn't a change in format, but a change in difficulty, which can be similarly seen when comparing 1* to 2* and 2* to 3*. Specific things have changed, but the overlying theme is that it becomes more difficult:

2* to 3* = 1 cover needed to enter into the battle, while tough it is still doable. You can do this once a day.
3* to 4* = 1 cover needed to enter into the battle, realistically takes 8ish+ covers to win. You can do this once every 5 days.