So how are 4* Tranistioners suppose to earn Legendary tokens

GurlBYE

i must express that I can't wrap my brain around people who don't want 4 stars to be easier obtain but ALSO want there to be a 5 star tier.

So you just want to stay on your pedestal and don't want competition and have no concept of the value of something changing over time?

it's like bullying kids in line to buy an iphone telling them they have to buy a razr phone first.

If anything the other tiers need to be severely smoothed when a new one is introduced.

Dragon_Nexus

GurlBYE wrote:

i must express that I can't wrap my brain around people who don't want 4 stars to be easier obtain but ALSO want there to be a 5 star tier.

So you just want to stay on your pedestal and don't want competition and have no concept of the value of something changing over time?

it's like bullying kids in line to buy an iphone telling them they have to buy a razr phone first.

If anything the other tiers need to be severely smoothed when a new one is introduced.

IMO, a 5* is something different to the main game. You can't purchase them in the normal manner, you must simply find them. They're something of a shift in the dynamic.

That suits the style, I think. You can't win one by reaching progression or scoring well, you have to get lucky with a token. So they're more of a trophy than anything else.
Shifting the game up a peg to a more 3*'s-propping-up-4*s dynamic, however, needs a better way of transitioning to 4*. They'd been promising for months that this was something they were going to do and I feel it hasn't happened yet. The DDQ node needs tweaking. Level 270 is just insane, really. Anyone without a mostly-covered 4* character will not beat the node without extreme luck. It's a node for those who already have a strong roster of 4*s, not those like me trying to get covers to build it up.

DDQ until now was a way of earning 3* covers you needed for characters you had, and you could do it with any character you wanted. This node is far too strict and doesn't help at all.

Unknown

3* to 4* transitioning player here. Most players would have probably already thought of this but here's few ways I feel that might make this a little easier:

- The AI's level should be max (so its 395) BUT let us bring two of our friends alongside the essential 4*
- Let us choose the 4* we want to use
- Make it like the final node in the Gauntlet and allow AI to have 3 highly synergistic characters

*Edited cause max level is 395 and not 375

Unknown

^ they thought about that, to be sure

then decided eh, lets just let the rich get richer and if they want that 4* token they can cover up their XF (this is what they were counting on, obviously) for a token that might be an x force

ClydeFrog76

IceIX wrote:

Except that there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*. It's by no means easy. I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there. I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do. The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

Why are you guys still treating 4* covers like precious baubles when every other action you're taking is making it blatantly apparent that they're the new meta that we can't escape?

Buret0

theHappyDance wrote:

Yeah, I know. It sucks when someone keeps saying they're going to do something and keeps saying they're making changes that will do something, but they never do those things, doesn't it?

Almost like when someone says they're going to create a 3-4* transition back in early 2015 (April / May or earlier), doesn't add any substantive changes that really create a transition, but say they're going to add a 4* DPD to help, and then finding out 6 months later when they release it that the vaunted 4* DPD is actually for 4-5* transitioners instead. Yeah, that's pretty raw.

Anyway, I decided I'll wait at least until 5 days from now when they next run it and see if they fix it or not. If not, I'm gone. Works out better anyway since I'm pretty busy this week. In the meantime, you're all free to compete with each other for who can suck up enough in the hopes of getting free **** from the devs. Just remember, only 1% of the people who suck up get anything from them, and it's competitive, so get to it.

I still haven't decided not to delete my roster, and I'm still pissed how they mislead us YET AGAIN (if it were just once, I wouldn't care so much, but it's pretty much every time), but you're right that whining isn't productive. I have my standards. I like the core mechanics of this game, but if the devs want me to play it and put more money into it, they have to provide a game that I, and other players like me, want to play. The devs should be competing for our attention, not the other way around.

Peace out, and hopefully at least some of you are still able to enjoy this game. For me the game is stale, and this last move was middle finger combined with a slap in the face. Toodles, kiddos!

Vhailorx

IceIX wrote:

Except that there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*. It's by no means easy. I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there. I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do. The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

I have to disagree with you a bit there Ice. I think you are conflating "easy" with "not extremely difficult." I think most people are just asking for the players who most need 4* covers (i.e. those players with complete or near complete 3* rosters, but very few 4*s with more than 4 covers) to have a shot at the new 4* ddq nodes. There's a very large gap between something that is "easy" and what I have described.

My primary concern with the current implementation is that it will only be regularly achievable for players who already have 6-8 or more covers on all or almost all of the 4*s. Such players will get 5-6 legendary tokens per month from the ddq event, which still isn't a huge number, but can definitely add up over time.

But early 4* transition players won't be seeing that type of gain. Instead, they will likely have a decent number of covers for 0-3 4*s (likely the oldest ones) from random cover luck and the odd 1k reward when their good 3*s are boosted. Getting a single cover once or twice a month will not really make an appreciable difference in 4* transition rate for those players (especially since approximately 26 new 4* covers will have been introduced during the same period, given the current release schedule).

So the 4* ddq node doesn't significantly increase the speed with which players switch from predominantly 3* play to predominantly 4* play (instead it helps players that already use 4*s much of the time finish out their 4* roster and start their 5* transitions). Maybe that was it's intent all along. But when the devs tell the community (as Will did in the community video) "we know that we have a released a ton of new 4*s in the game and we are going to introduce new ways to speed up the 4* transition," and simultaneously add a new 4* node to the daily quest event (an event that was implemented earlier this year for the express purpose of reducing the time between getting a 1st cover for a given 3* and getting 8-10 covers and actually using that 3* in response to the growing number of characters in the game and impending expansion of a new tier), then I think it's fair for the players to expect that the new ddq node will help increase the speed of their 4* transition in a meaningful way.

(and to be fair, as I have said in other posts, I think cyclops is a particularly wicked opponent, so I think that we players should not rush to judgment on the basis of a single data point.)

morph3us

In some senses, I think part of the issue as to whether the 4* DDQ node is appropriately dfficult revolves around the definition of "4* transitioner". I suspect that the definition of a 4* transitioner differs amongst the playerbase, and differs between the playerbase and the devs.

The definition of a 3* transitioner when I was at that stage was when a player's 3* characters were sufficiently covered and able to be levelled to supplant their maxed 2* roster (or at least that was the definition that Polarity and co were using, and I think it's still a pretty reasonable one). From that perspective, we'd regard that point as when a player has a couple of 3* characters with 9+ covers each, and leveled to 120 or so. If your 3*s weren't at that stage, you probably weren't ready to transition yet. This was particularly relevant in PvP in terms of placing T100, and before the advent of the weekly boosted characters. T100 was the main way at that stage of accruing further 3* covers, so you could complete your transition.

Now, there's no question that the 2* to 3* transition has been smoothed considerably, with the weekly boosted, and DDQ.

When we look at the 4* DDQ node, it seems reasonably clear to me that the devs have pitched this node at that same benchmark. A 4* transitioner, very likely according to the devs, is a player who has 4* characters who are sufficiently covered and levelled to be able to supplant their maxed 3* roster. So that would be a point when a player has a couple of 4* characters with 9+ covers each, and levelled to, say, 170 or so (probably more 180-190; 220 if you want to be pedantic about match damage). This seems fairly representative of most of the XFWs which are beating the Cyclops node today.

So, from that sense, the difficulty level of the 4* DDQ node doesn't seem inappropriate.

Furthermore, from the perspective of whether a player has an appropriately covered 4* to beat that node or not doesn't seem all that different from whether a 3* player has the weekly boosted characters or not, in terms of chances of success in hitting 1K in PvP vs chances of getting the legendary token from that 4* DDQ node

The thing that's missing is a way to smooth the path of a player who is trying to move from a maxed 3* roster to that "4* transition" point. As has been pointed out, the main way this is happening at this stage is the 1K progression in PvP, which is slow.

If the "early 4* transitioner" wants to use Legendary tokens to accelerate their transition beyond covers accrued from 1K in PvP, I'd say that PvE and the Season progression are probably the ways to get those tokens.

MaskedMan

This game has never been oriented toward those who don't want to spend money on it. All changes they have made have been to make it harder to level up your characters.

Originally all healing was true healing and you could use that to keep your characters in the game. That was the first to go.

Then the PvP revamp which was "supposedly" to help players transition from 2*s to 3*s but basically made PvP unplayable without a high level team. It used to be easy to get enough points to score the free pack at the end of the season, I haven't been able to get it since. Simulator is hopeless now since it starts you out facing 240s. If they did any balancing on it I'm sure not seeing it. All I see in PvP is 3 starter fights then the 240+s come out and since I don't have cards that high I can win a few fights before it depletes my health.

Now the Vs Cyclops fight which looks to be an attempt to get people to buy upgrades to their 4* powers so that they have a chance.

I don't mind spending money on a game but this one has it's hand out constantly. Which sometimes gets annoying, much like a beggar - you know there is a reason for it but you don't want them in your face all the time. Personally I miss the pay $30 a month and play the game all you want with no additional purchases days.

Face it if you want to build up 4*s or 5*s you have to buy packs until you get all three powers then buy power upgrades directly. Then all you need is a mountain of ISO. That or you can play for years to get 8 cards on a Nick Fury.

Der_Lex

MaskedMan wrote:

Face it if you want to build up 4*s or 5*s you have to buy packs until you get all three powers then buy power upgrades directly. Then all you need is a mountain of ISO. That or you can play for years to get 8 cards on a Nick Fury.

I'm a completely F2P player, who took a big break from the game after the release of 3* Deadpool, and who came back around the time of the release of Cyclops, so that's February of this year. I had made the 2*-3* transition in my first half year with the game, so when I came back, I had about 6-8 maxed 3* (including the nerfed Sentry, who really shouldn't count), and a 3/4/3 Xforce (who was still garbage when I took my break) and enough ISO to get him to L180 or so. I didn't have top tier characters like Cage and Thoress available to me, and this was before the Thoress/Xforce combo nerf, so players who had both of them were still dominating top end play.

Within those 7 months of playing the game, without spending a dime, I have managed to get every 3* except Doc Ock to 13 covers, and maxed out 7 of them. In the 4* tier, I have not only picked up those remaining 3 covers for X-force and leveled him to 260, but I also managed to get Hulkbuster, Prof X and Kingpin from 0 to 13 covers and leveled them to 250, I have 4 other 4* at 10-12 covers (and leveled 2 to 200 because they're already useful), and the average amount of covers on my other 4* is about 9, barring the latest two releases (my 3 blue CapFalc won't be taking flight anytime soon).

What i'm trying to say is: it's perfectly possible to do well in this game without being a whale. Yes, it does take some effort that goes beyond the casual level (I probably spend 2, maybe 3 hours on the game on average per day, spread out in half-hour blocks throughout the day unless there's character release pve grinding to be done), and a good alliance is a huge help as well, but there are plenty of top 100 alliances out there who are always looking for new recruits, and are happy to show them how to get better at the game. Now I can fully understand it when people don't want to put that amount of time and effort into a Match-3 game (and to be honest, I might be slowing down a bit as well when Fallout 4 comes out), but the possibilities are definitely there without having to spend a ton of cash.

optimus2861

MaskedMan wrote:

I don't mind spending money on a game but this one has it's hand out constantly. Which sometimes gets annoying, much like a beggar - you know there is a reason for it but you don't want them in your face all the time.

All freemium games are like this.

Every. Single. One.

They only differ in how 'in your face' they are about it, but they all want you to spend money. Lots of it. Hundreds of dollars, in as little as minutes, before you realize what you've done.

Try getting a character in Marvel Future Fight beyond a 4th star without whaling, for instance. You'll be playing the game for hours & hours a day, and probably still not make it. Meanwhile the whales run around with 6 star guys, with purchased uniforms (skins) unavailable to F2P players.

That part of the game I don't really begrudge D3. It is what it is.

I do worry what the 5* tier is going to mean for the long-term health of the game. A high-covered SS will be invincible to every existing character. He will completely & irrevocably destroy what competitive balance (shaky as it is) currently exists. The 3* players may as well quit PVP for good when the first SS players emerge, and then who are the 5* players going to play against?

As someone else put it, whales need plankton to eat. If there are no plankton, the whales die.

kalex716

If they would change it so the required 4* character is needed, but let me use xforce wolverine every 5 days to actually fight with I'd be okay with it. Mine is 2/3/2 and I'd buy him out with cash to max if I could see myself leveraging him to get 4 stars once a week, but doing the math loosely in my head, we won't see xforce as the guy for a long long time, so I hesitated at the last minute to buy him up... I couldn't even take down cyclops yesterday with him, how can I expect worse characters with even fewer covers to stand a chance?

Cyclops is probably a top 10 3 star though, so maybe it was just a bad matchup... And 2/3/2, i got him as low as 1300 one time so it was doable if I had gotten lucky, but I didn't, and I ran out of boosts so it never happened for me, but I admit it was close.

I want this to be something new I can get excited about, and I even want to spend a sensible bit of cash to make this work for me, but I can't get there on it. It's not going to happen right now, lets hope they tweak it a bit.

herm1978

optimus2861 wrote:

MaskedMan wrote:

I don't mind spending money on a game but this one has it's hand out constantly. Which sometimes gets annoying, much like a beggar - you know there is a reason for it but you don't want them in your face all the time.

All freemium games are like this.

Every. Single. One.

They only differ in how 'in your face' they are about it, but they all want you to spend money. Lots of it. Hundreds of dollars, in as little as minutes, before you realize what you've done.

Try getting a character in Marvel Future Fight beyond a 4th star without whaling, for instance. You'll be playing the game for hours & hours a day, and probably still not make it. Meanwhile the whales run around with 6 star guys, with purchased uniforms (skins) unavailable to F2P players.

That part of the game I don't really begrudge D3. It is what it is.

I do worry what the 5* tier is going to mean for the long-term health of the game. A high-covered SS will be invincible to every existing character. He will completely & irrevocably destroy what competitive balance (shaky as it is) currently exists. The 3* players may as well quit PVP for good when the first SS players emerge, and then who are the 5* players going to play against?

As someone else put it, whales need plankton to eat. If there are no plankton, the whales die.

Do not compare MPQ to FF, with auto play and clear tickets I needed a fraction of the time I've spent on MPQ to get multiple 5* characters. I admit I have spent some money but definitely not more than 30-40 USD. But that game at least makes me want to spend some money. I've played MPQ for >600 days and not spent half of what FF got in a few months.

kalex716

herm1978 wrote:

optimus2861 wrote:

MaskedMan wrote:

I don't mind spending money on a game but this one has it's hand out constantly. Which sometimes gets annoying, much like a beggar - you know there is a reason for it but you don't want them in your face all the time.

All freemium games are like this.

Every. Single. One.

They only differ in how 'in your face' they are about it, but they all want you to spend money. Lots of it. Hundreds of dollars, in as little as minutes, before you realize what you've done.

Try getting a character in Marvel Future Fight beyond a 4th star without whaling, for instance. You'll be playing the game for hours & hours a day, and probably still not make it. Meanwhile the whales run around with 6 star guys, with purchased uniforms (skins) unavailable to F2P players.

That part of the game I don't really begrudge D3. It is what it is.

I do worry what the 5* tier is going to mean for the long-term health of the game. A high-covered SS will be invincible to every existing character. He will completely & irrevocably destroy what competitive balance (shaky as it is) currently exists. The 3* players may as well quit PVP for good when the first SS players emerge, and then who are the 5* players going to play against?

As someone else put it, whales need plankton to eat. If there are no plankton, the whales die.

Do not compare MPQ to FF, with auto play and clear tickets I needed a fraction of the time I've spent on MPQ to get multiple 5* characters. I admit I have spent some money but definitely not more than 30-40 USD. But that game at least makes me want to spend some money. I've played MPQ for >600 days and not spent half of what FF got in a few months.

Thats one of the ongoing interesting things about MPQ. They consistently make design decisions that disincentives sensible spending. In fact, its the only thing they've been consistent about the entire time. They really only want people spending any money at all, if they are whales, and fall into idiotic expenditures.

The only exception I can think of, is the first 20 bucks you should spend for a pile of quick roster spots, and the odd drop for shield boosting if you are really into that sort of thing. Anything else, is always a waste of money.

Like I said above, give me an option to spend a few bucks to gain a real edge (not saying hand it to me, but help me along) here in the 4 star transition and I'll do it. Its a fair argument to suggest that shield hopping, is in fact that avenue but I can't stand the anxiety of that compulsion loop.

SnowcaTT

kalex716 wrote:

If they would change it so the required 4* character is needed, but let me use xforce wolverine every 5 days to actually fight with I'd be okay with it. Mine is 2/3/2 and I'd buy him out with cash to max if I could see myself leveraging him to get 4 stars once a week, but doing the math loosely in my head, we won't see xforce as the guy for a long long time, so I hesitated at the last minute to buy him up... I couldn't even take down cyclops yesterday with him, how can I expect worse characters with even fewer covers to stand a chance?

I wouldn't mind it if it was like DDQ was set up to be - have two nodes, use the 4* required to unlock the harder node - then use whatever team you want on that node (perhaps a cover of the required character, rather than legendary). That way folks have to get the 4* to earn another 4* : this is 4* transition, right?

Or, they could make the current version: vs a 166, so a 2/2/2 166 4* would still have a difficult time, but not really, really hard time.

Instead they went for the 5* transition and skipped the 4* transition - which seems to be the complaint of many in this thread.

itstime1234

Der_Lex wrote:

MaskedMan wrote:

Face it if you want to build up 4*s or 5*s you have to buy packs until you get all three powers then buy power upgrades directly. Then all you need is a mountain of ISO. That or you can play for years to get 8 cards on a Nick Fury.

I'm a completely F2P player, who took a big break from the game after the release of 3* Deadpool, and who came back around the time of the release of Cyclops, so that's February of this year. I had made the 2*-3* transition in my first half year with the game, so when I came back, I had about 6-8 maxed 3* (including the nerfed Sentry, who really shouldn't count), and a 3/4/3 Xforce (who was still garbage when I took my break) and enough ISO to get him to L180 or so. I didn't have top tier characters like Cage and Thoress available to me, and this was before the Thoress/Xforce combo nerf, so players who had both of them were still dominating top end play.

Within those 7 months of playing the game, without spending a dime, I have managed to get every 3* except Doc Ock to 13 covers, and maxed out 7 of them. In the 4* tier, I have not only picked up those remaining 3 covers for X-force and leveled him to 260, but I also managed to get Hulkbuster, Prof X and Kingpin from 0 to 13 covers and leveled them to 250, I have 4 other 4* at 10-12 covers (and leveled 2 to 200 because they're already useful), and the average amount of covers on my other 4* is about 9, barring the latest two releases (my 3 blue CapFalc won't be taking flight anytime soon).

What i'm trying to say is: it's perfectly possible to do well in this game without being a whale. Yes, it does take some effort that goes beyond the casual level (I probably spend 2, maybe 3 hours on the game on average per day, spread out in half-hour blocks throughout the day unless there's character release pve grinding to be done), and a good alliance is a huge help as well, but there are plenty of top 100 alliances out there who are always looking for new recruits, and are happy to show them how to get better at the game. Now I can fully understand it when people don't want to put that amount of time and effort into a Match-3 game (and to be honest, I might be slowing down a bit as well when Fallout 4 comes out), but the possibilities are definitely there without having to spend a ton of cash.

You speak as if you are a typical player achieving typical results. This is one of the most ludicrous statements ever. If a school test said you need 100% to pass most would say that's insane and impossible but there is usually 1 person who does make it. Doesn't make it reasonable.

Oh lebron James and I can dunk a basketball. Why aren't you doing it.

I have just as many covered 4* and don't pay but I am not your standard player.

optimus2861

herm1978 wrote:

Do not compare MPQ to FF, with auto play and clear tickets I needed a fraction of the time I've spent on MPQ to get multiple 5* characters.

I confess I'm impressed, and don't know how you managed that. I find farming biometrics a real chore beyond 3*. I don't take that game too seriously though, and I do love that it's so very light on player competition. You can skip PVP entirely and not miss out on much.

I admit I have spent some money but definitely not more than 30-40 USD. But that game at least makes me want to spend some money. I've played MPQ for >600 days and not spent half of what FF got in a few months.

I agree that FF does a much better job at making you want to spend money; MPQ seems to make you feel like you must spend money. There's a difference, and D3 seems either deaf to it or they've consciously chosen the latter path. The difference in how much in-game currency the games give away for free is astonishing, too.

Der_Lex

itstime1234 wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

MaskedMan wrote:

Face it if you want to build up 4*s or 5*s you have to buy packs until you get all three powers then buy power upgrades directly. Then all you need is a mountain of ISO. That or you can play for years to get 8 cards on a Nick Fury.

I'm a completely F2P player, who took a big break from the game after the release of 3* Deadpool, and who came back around the time of the release of Cyclops, so that's February of this year. I had made the 2*-3* transition in my first half year with the game, so when I came back, I had about 6-8 maxed 3* (including the nerfed Sentry, who really shouldn't count), and a 3/4/3 Xforce (who was still garbage when I took my break) and enough ISO to get him to L180 or so. I didn't have top tier characters like Cage and Thoress available to me, and this was before the Thoress/Xforce combo nerf, so players who had both of them were still dominating top end play.

Within those 7 months of playing the game, without spending a dime, I have managed to get every 3* except Doc Ock to 13 covers, and maxed out 7 of them. In the 4* tier, I have not only picked up those remaining 3 covers for X-force and leveled him to 260, but I also managed to get Hulkbuster, Prof X and Kingpin from 0 to 13 covers and leveled them to 250, I have 4 other 4* at 10-12 covers (and leveled 2 to 200 because they're already useful), and the average amount of covers on my other 4* is about 9, barring the latest two releases (my 3 blue CapFalc won't be taking flight anytime soon).

What i'm trying to say is: it's perfectly possible to do well in this game without being a whale. Yes, it does take some effort that goes beyond the casual level (I probably spend 2, maybe 3 hours on the game on average per day, spread out in half-hour blocks throughout the day unless there's character release pve grinding to be done), and a good alliance is a huge help as well, but there are plenty of top 100 alliances out there who are always looking for new recruits, and are happy to show them how to get better at the game. Now I can fully understand it when people don't want to put that amount of time and effort into a Match-3 game (and to be honest, I might be slowing down a bit as well when Fallout 4 comes out), but the possibilities are definitely there without having to spend a ton of cash.

You speak as if you are a typical player achieving typical results. This is one of the most ludicrous statements ever. If a school test said you need 100% to pass most would say that's insane and impossible but there is usually 1 person who does make it. Doesn't make it reasonable.

Oh lebron James and I can dunk a basketball. Why aren't you doing it.

I have just as many covered 4* and don't pay but I am not your standard player.

'Standard' players never make it out of the 2-3* transition. Let's face it, as soon as you're seriously going for 4*, you can be considered a 'hardcore' player.

Either way, I thought, and still think, that 'you need to either pay or wait over a year to fully cover a 4*' is just as ludicrous a statement, and hey, we're both examples of how that's not true (nor do I think that we are so exceptional that it's something only a few players can do).

Now you won't hear me deny that as the 4* pool increases we'll need more ways for players to get 4* covers, but I think that the devs should focus on fixing that problem for the 3* tier first, because I think that's a much more problematic situation that's affecting a much larger portion of the playerbase.

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice claimed that it would be difficult with 4* with 1 cover but doable with a handful of covers. That is incredibly far from the reality. It's extremely difficult with a handful of covers and godlike luck while impossible with 1 cover. They can't complain about the misunderstanding because we weren't the ones that relayed the terrible misinformation.

Except that there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*. It's by no means easy. I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there. I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do. The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

Define handful of covers? Also, what you said seemed to imply that it was at least possible (if not highly improbable) with a small number of covers, but it's close to impossible with 4 covers (1/1/2). The only conceivable way I could imagine beating it is if I got the mother of all lucky chains.

Either way, this is pretty frustrating. I was hoping for at least one way to get a Legendary Token with a tiny bit of regularity, but now that looks like it isn't going to happen. Once again, the rich get richer and the poor stay poor. Maybe it would have been better if it was a player's 3* against an AI 4*? That would at least give people who are transitioning from 3* to 4* a chance of getting that token which helps them transition to 4*.

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

(and to be fair, as I have said in other posts, I think cyclops is a particularly wicked opponent, so I think that we players should not rush to judgment on the basis of a single data point.)

I agree that they started with one of the strongest options they could have. but xforce should be the best covered overall 4* among the playerbase...AND 2 of the 3 colors cyc uses, xforce uses, including his best (only powerful) ability in black. I can see a lot more issue when kingpin wants to chase yellow and black but needing to deny daredevil red and blue - that will be much more tricky and most players will have a much lower level and worse covered kingpin.

morph3us wrote:

When we look at the 4* DDQ node, it seems reasonably clear to me that the devs have pitched this node at that same benchmark. A 4* transitioner, very likely according to the devs, is a player who has 4* characters who are sufficiently covered and levelled to be able to supplant their maxed 3* roster. So that would be a point when a player has a couple of 4* characters with 9+ covers each, and levelled to, say, 170 or so (probably more 180-190; 220 if you want to be pedantic about match damage). This seems fairly representative of most of the XFWs which are beating the Cyclops node today.

2 issues with that.

one, big enchilada can be routinely done with 94s 95% of the time or more. that is the expectation they set with what they chose to put in place for the 2->3 transitioner. I've never heard of a 166 team wiping on big enchilada but I'm guessing if you put a **** enough team together it would be possible. I've heard of several 270 xforces needing multiple tries at it. the problem is the expectation they set by BE and the previous discussion doesn't necessarily match up with the match they put us in. I'm not angry or upset, partly because I got very lucky, but that doesn't mean that the feelings of frustration aren't warranted, which wasn't your point anyway, just saying.

two, if you want to define a transitioner as having higher class characters that can supplant the previous class...3* with 9 covers at level ~100-120 generally surpass the 2* level 94 group (really 7-8 covers in the right abilities would do it). the problem is xforce green and yellow are not really any better than many 3* abilities unless fully covered and mostly leveled. black was key here, and I suspect there were only a handful of victories among those with less than 3 black. unless you're talking about the top tier (maybe top 5 of the 4*s), they are only marginally better than 3*s to begin with, so to supplant the fists/Cyclops/cages/mags/thors of the world, they basically have to be almost finished anyway. that would be an unfortunate definition.

not really arguing with you - think we're on the same side. just further commenting.