So how are 4* Tranistioners suppose to earn Legendary tokens

Der_Lex

squirrel1120 wrote:

At least with boosted characters the scenery kind of changes a little bit every week beyond the smattering of ever-present fistbuster teams. I was starting to resent fistbuster... until they started becoming one of the easier teams to face over 800 pts. I kinda feel bad for anyone that managed to max fist buster, but then somehow weren't able to keep up with the meta. I see a lot of people running fistbuster coming back from the hop that should clear them at 1300 with -300 in hits before they can finish.

There are definitely better teams to leave out on defense these days when you're in the pre-shield hop phase (Thing/XFDP comes to mind, that's my auto-skip unless I'm pushing 1000 and they're worth a lot of points), but Fistbuster still has a very prominent place in the meta because it's probably still the fastest hop team out there. With AP boosts, you can play two matches against most top-tier teams in 5-6 minutes or less, and have your shield up again before that inevitable barrage of hits comes crashing down on you.


As for Legendary tokens, even though the chance is only 5% (soon to be 10%), I think their primary function is enabling the 5* transition. Their use for people who are trying to move up from 3* to 4* is very limited because they only have one easily accessible way to acquire them (PvE progression), even if their chances of getting something they can use from the tokens are good because they have relatively few 4* covers in their roster.
On the other hand, their use for players who have a firmer footing in 4* land is limited as well, because their chances of pulling something useful from the tokens are a lot smaller, because of token randomness. The first (and so far only, I've gone into hoard mode) 4 legendaries that I opened contained only one cover that was of any use to me, and the odds probably won't be getting any better. If anything, I feel that legendaries have actually slowed down my progression in a way by replacing the season alliance award, and especially by replacing the 1300 progression reward. Yes, when 1300 awarded specific covers, it featured covers I didn't need a lot of the time... but the rest of the time I was 100% sure of getting something I needed instead of having to take a gamble on a token. Especially if you're not a whale and your shield budget is limited, the old prog reward allowed you to pick your battles and focus on specific characters to acquire and build up. That's a lot harder now that only the 1k prog and 1st place placement award you a specific 4* cover.

I understand the disappointment over the 4* DDQ node, because, difficulty aside, it doesn't offer the same thing that the two 3* essential nodes do. The 3* nodes and cover rotation system help people with advanced rosters to get those last few covers for their characters, and offer players with a handful of 3* covers a way to slowly acquire more and have some sense of progression (albeit slow) even if they can't catch a break in PvP (and yes, the reward system for that really needs to be looked at, especially for 2-3* transitioners). But the 4* node simply embodies the main problem with legendary tokens right now: the people who have the best chance of benefiting from it have little to no chance of beating the node, whereas people who can beat the node have a very limited benefit from it because its reward is random, rather than a set cover.

I'm really hoping that the hints of new gameplay modes and more ways to pick up 4* covers will turn out to make things easier on players of all kinds, and form a solid basis for a good rate of progression. Because Legendary tokens, fun as they are, are an added, incidental bonus to progression into 4* and 5* land , but not a solid foundation to base that progression on.

XandorXerxes

Just wanted to throw in -

PvE by definition is NOT the way to transition to 4*. If I, as a 3* player, get a legendary token every event for 9 months just to be able to transition to 4* - well, all the 2* players did that too. Why bother with the 3* transition? It's just as easy to go from 2*-4* than it is to go from 3*-4*.

The advantage 3*s have over 2*s is PvP. 1K PvP is obtainable if you have a significant number of 3*s fully maxed... for now. Once even more people have usable 4*s we'll see how that changes things. The question though, is how long it takes to max a significant number of 3*s. If you assume around 4 months with lucky pulls / rewards, then the 2* player is halfway to 4* already before he or she is even ready to start the 3*-4* transition.

TxMoose

XandorXerxes wrote:

If you assume around 4 months with lucky pulls / rewards, then the 2* player is halfway to 4* already before he or she is even ready to start the 3*-4* transition.

TxMoose wrote:

I agree that unless you whale up, those who have played the game longest generally stay ahead of you and when I finally arrive as a 4* player, i'll never be at the "top" since I started the game a full year after it came out. while that makes sense that those who have played the longest should have progressed more in a progress game, it is still frustrating to know that no matter how good you get at the game, you'll never be the best because of the progression. only way around that is whaling. we have to decide how much of a frustration it really is - if it causes nothing but disappointments and headaches, is it really worth it? for me, for all that frustration, the game still has so many satisfying moments and at its heart is so fun to play. so for me, its still worth it.

tops in progression games like this always, always go to either 1) the players that started when the game started or 2) those who paid enough money to catch those who started when the game started. that is the nature of this beast.

kensterr

There are HP and ISO from PVE. That's how my F2P alliance mates keep having enough of both to buy covers if necessary (and hero slots too) and have enough ISO to max them if they choose to. I seriously don't understand why people keep expecting stuff given to them without their own effort.

Quebbster

kensterr wrote:

There are HP and ISO from PVE. That's how my F2P alliance mates keep having enough of both to buy covers if necessary (and hero slots too) and have enough ISO to max them if they choose to. I seriously don't understand why people keep expecting stuff given to them without their own effort.

Very much this. I try to play in all events even if I'm not interested in the rewards as I can always use the HP and ISO, and you never know when a token might yield something useful.

Unknown

Quebbster wrote:

kensterr wrote:

There are HP and ISO from PVE. That's how my F2P alliance mates keep having enough of both to buy covers if necessary (and hero slots too) and have enough ISO to max them if they choose to. I seriously don't understand why people keep expecting stuff given to them without their own effort.

Very much this. I try to play in all events even if I'm not interested in the rewards as I can always use the HP and ISO, and you never know when a token might yield something useful.

Being personal and blunt

That causes burn out. It's great that there are a plethora of things to do each day, whether it be 2 PvPs and sim, or DDQ, or 1.5 PvEs. No complaint - and I welcome more content as well.

But lets just be honest here...

A large number of us with large rosters who have not just 'whaled' - have been playing for a LONG time. Because of that - yes we want to transition, but we aint got time to grind out several HOURS each day for 'very small incremental' increases. When its a new character - its usually perfect - once every month or so, you may end up logging substantial time playing for a few days. That won't trigger burn out.

You've got to remember, the rewards don't increase with level, all you can hope for is that you get those rewards 'faster' or get 'more' rewards to compensate for that. In the 1-2 transition, winning nets you 70 to 140 ISO. At 4*, winning nets you 70 to 140 ISO. This is true for covers too, right now you most likely get the same number of covers you did as a year ago, but the % of them that will be useful is much smaller.

I agree, if you've got the time or energy, play everything, you should gain the most rewards/points doing that, but if you want to keep the more experienced player base around, you've got to find a sweet spot where they can still grow at a respectable rate without having to lose their day job to do so. We don't have that rate right now. Those at the top end (and I have no qualms with them) are going to own up the placement rewards - despite - again not needing them. Those on the lower end have better scaling so life is pretty easy for them in PvE, and in PvP, all rewards actually benefit them almost directly. I remember when I had 2 maxed MNM. But the middle? The rewards are paltry, and fewer in number, despite the need for them.

I'd be fine with SS being taken OUT of the Legendary tokens if it improved matters, I don't care for him, nor want him (I'll take him, don't get me twisted), I want the tokens as a means to improve my roster since I can't win 4* outside of hitting 1k in PvP or logging way too much time in PvE (clearing 3 times a day? That's like 30 matches + DDQ...not even factoring in PvP...no way in hell). I mean as it stands, they can't even fix the issue through placement rewards, they could make the top 10 all 4*s, and they will still be won by people with all 4*s anyways haha. I don't want to prtend like its an easy fix, but saying...

"You guys need to grind more"
"You guys just want a hand out"

Is silly.
- Unreall

Quebbster

Unreallystic wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

kensterr wrote:

There are HP and ISO from PVE. That's how my F2P alliance mates keep having enough of both to buy covers if necessary (and hero slots too) and have enough ISO to max them if they choose to. I seriously don't understand why people keep expecting stuff given to them without their own effort.

Very much this. I try to play in all events even if I'm not interested in the rewards as I can always use the HP and ISO, and you never know when a token might yield something useful.

Being personal and blunt

That causes burn out. It's great that there are a plethora of things to do each day, whether it be 2 PvPs and sim, or DDQ, or 1.5 PvEs. No complaint - and I welcome more content as well.

But lets just be honest here...

A large number of us with large rosters who have not just 'whaled' - have been playing for a LONG time. Because of that - yes we want to transition, but we aint got time to grind out several HOURS each day for 'very small incremental' increases. When its a new character - its usually perfect - once every month or so, you may end up logging substantial time playing for a few days. That won't trigger burn out.

You've got to remember, the rewards don't increase with level, all you can hope for is that you get those rewards 'faster' or get 'more' rewards to compensate for that. In the 1-2 transition, winning nets you 70 to 140 ISO. At 4*, winning nets you 70 to 140 ISO. This is true for covers too, right now you most likely get the same number of covers you did as a year ago, but the % of them that will be useful is much smaller.

I agree, if you've got the time or energy, play everything, you should gain the most rewards/points doing that, but if you want to keep the more experienced player base around, you've got to find a sweet spot where they can still grow at a respectable rate without having to lose their day job to do so. We don't have that rate right now. Those at the top end (and I have no qualms with them) are going to own up the placement rewards - despite - again not needing them. Those on the lower end have better scaling so life is pretty easy for them in PvE, and in PvP, all rewards actually benefit them almost directly. I remember when I had 2 maxed MNM. But the middle? The rewards are paltry, and fewer in number, despite the need for them.

I'd be fine with SS being taken OUT of the Legendary tokens if it improved matters, I don't care for him, nor want him (I'll take him, don't get me twisted), I want the tokens as a means to improve my roster since I can't win 4* outside of hitting 1k in PvP or logging way too much time in PvE (clearing 3 times a day? That's like 30 matches + DDQ...not even factoring in PvP...no way in hell). I mean as it stands, they can't even fix the issue through placement rewards, they could make the top 10 all 4*s, and they will still be won by people with all 4*s anyways haha. I don't want to prtend like its an easy fix, but saying...

"You guys need to grind more"
"You guys just want a hand out"

Is silly.
- Unreall

I don't disagree with any of this. I have found a rate of play that suits me. I am certainly not encouraging anyone to play more than they are comfortable with. I usually feel I can get the rewards I work for, but I realize not everyone is so lucky.
I was mostly pointing out that even the base rewards (ISO and HP) can be very useful and you can collect a lot of it if you want.

Unknown

Yeah, there is a line - you want to reward those who play more - but you need to not 'lose' a large chunk of your player base. I'd wager a outside of whales (and this is guessing I admit) that my bracket - the veteran with a large roster - has most likely provided the most money (again outside of whales). You don't want to 'lose' us..and while I'm content with the content, I already see 'fatigue' and 'lack of interest' on my part because I simply have no real goal right now, legendaries on a consistent basis just is NOT a possibility, I'm not going to feed the game money like an arcade game - just to keep a shield up every PvP, multiple times, to get a legendary token, and I'm not going to play for several hours a day, tracking with a clock when I play, to get it via PvE, that's simply too much...

So what do I do then? Just stop playing all together? I doubt anyone wants that.

So they need to (and I believe they are) improve 4* land and the transition. It feels weird saying this, and maybe the 5*s (which we've known were coming since last winter) have changed my view point, but it almost feels like they need to add a bunch of 4*s to truly 'shift' the game to 4* being the norm instead of the 3*s, and then ramp up the ability to get AND lvl them. Am I crazy?
- Unreall

TxMoose

my guess is that the most logical plan is to keep hitting 1K as efficiently as you can, play a 3 or 4 day pve when you can, and complete the 4* ddq node when you can. that is my plan going forward, although I did chase 1300 with cage and cyc boosted recently - with mixed results. keep with that plan and while it won't be as accelerated as others who are pve'ing hard and hemorrhaging hp for shield hopping, its at your own pace. I basically won't play a 7-day pve but will play as many 3 and 4 day pves that I can. I think I'm done with 1300 for a while - of course anniversary week, thor/panther/kk are boosted, so who knows.

Unknown

I reached page 5 of this thread before deciding not to read the rest because it was just an argument of "yes it is" and "no it isnt"!!!

I would just add my name to the list of people that feel the crash of the titans node is simply too hard! With 4-5 covers on a 4* they still cant go above level 120 and a 4 cover 4* is capped at 94. If you think a lvl 94 with 3000hp tops can beat a lvl 270 with 3 skills each dropping 5k damage then you are absolutely nuts!!!! The match damage alone is 300 every turn.......they dont even need to fire off a skill!!
The reality is that right from the start D3 never tested this before implementing it. It should be balanced so as the 3* is 50-70 levels higher than the 4* and then it would still be a challenge and an achievement to beat it but wouldnt lead to frustration and possibly people throwing the game out!!
I looked at the roster of a guy that was leading the PvP slot that i was in 3 days ago and he had 3 fully covered silver surfers and 1 that was still in the process of being covered. 2 were max level, 1 was around level 310 and the other hadnt had any iso spent on it but was still at around 6 covers. The gap between the top level players and the mid tier players is growing larger every day and if areas of inbalance are not addressed promptly then it just widens the gap. D3 asks for survey input and offer a forum but there just isnt anyone at the service desk dealing with community input or if there is then they need to be more visible.

Dragon_Nexus

Me47 wrote:

I looked at the roster of a guy that was leading the PvP slot that i was in 3 days ago and he had 3 fully covered silver surfers and 1 that was still in the process of being covered. 2 were max level, 1 was around level 310 and the other hadnt had any iso spent on it but was still at around 6 covers.

I'm sorry but...am I alone in finding this incredibly hard to believe?

Konman

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Me47 wrote:

I looked at the roster of a guy that was leading the PvP slot that i was in 3 days ago and he had 3 fully covered silver surfers and 1 that was still in the process of being covered. 2 were max level, 1 was around level 310 and the other hadnt had any iso spent on it but was still at around 6 covers.

I'm sorry but...am I alone in finding this incredibly hard to believe?

I've seen a player with 2 level 450 SS, 2 level 450 OML, a level 405 Phoenix, and a partially covered SS and OML. Total of 75 5* covers. 4 fully leveled 5* characters.

I know we had a kerfuffle not too long ago about using player names, so I'm not going to do that, but check some top PVE alliances, and see what some of those rosters are like. Its usually worse than we think.

Dragon_Nexus

Konman wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Me47 wrote:

I looked at the roster of a guy that was leading the PvP slot that i was in 3 days ago and he had 3 fully covered silver surfers and 1 that was still in the process of being covered. 2 were max level, 1 was around level 310 and the other hadnt had any iso spent on it but was still at around 6 covers.

I'm sorry but...am I alone in finding this incredibly hard to believe?

I've seen a player with 2 level 450 SS, 2 level 450 OML, a level 405 Phoenix, and a partially covered SS and OML. Total of 75 5* covers. 4 fully leveled 5* characters.

I know we had a kerfuffle not too long ago about using player names, so I'm not going to do that, but check some top PVE alliances, and see what some of those rosters are like. Its usually worse than we think.

Good lord, I figured 5* whaling would be something even the richest players wouldn't indulge in.
Who the hell pours what is basically a third mortgage into a F2P game?

Malcrof

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Good lord, I figured 5* whaling would be something even the richest players wouldn't indulge in.
Who the hell pours what is basically a third mortgage into a F2P game?

it is a matter of perspective.. a new car to one person, is less than a pair of shoes to someone else....

Unknown

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Me47 wrote:

I looked at the roster of a guy that was leading the PvP slot that i was in 3 days ago and he had 3 fully covered silver surfers and 1 that was still in the process of being covered. 2 were max level, 1 was around level 310 and the other hadnt had any iso spent on it but was still at around 6 covers.

I'm sorry but...am I alone in finding this incredibly hard to believe?

I saw someone a week or so ago with 2 maxed SS, one max covered but still leveling SS, 1 max OML, a second maxed or near maxed covers for OML, and a PHX with like 9 covers.

I don't even get why at this point...
- Unreall

Konman

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Konman wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Me47 wrote:

I looked at the roster of a guy that was leading the PvP slot that i was in 3 days ago and he had 3 fully covered silver surfers and 1 that was still in the process of being covered. 2 were max level, 1 was around level 310 and the other hadnt had any iso spent on it but was still at around 6 covers.

I'm sorry but...am I alone in finding this incredibly hard to believe?

I've seen a player with 2 level 450 SS, 2 level 450 OML, a level 405 Phoenix, and a partially covered SS and OML. Total of 75 5* covers. 4 fully leveled 5* characters.

I know we had a kerfuffle not too long ago about using player names, so I'm not going to do that, but check some top PVE alliances, and see what some of those rosters are like. Its usually worse than we think.

Good lord, I figured 5* whaling would be something even the richest players wouldn't indulge in.
Who the hell pours what is basically a third mortgage into a F2P game?

This player added 2 more 5* covers today. Bringing their Phoenix to 11 covers and level 420, and their 3rd OML up to 11 covers. Amazing.

Dragon_Nexus

Konman wrote:

This player added 2 more 5* covers today. Bringing their Phoenix to 11 covers and level 420, and their 3rd OML up to 11 covers. Amazing.

Boggles my mind.
If D3 ever says they're short on money for anything I'm going to be stunned.