So how are 4* Tranistioners suppose to earn Legendary tokens

Unknown

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice claimed that it would be difficult with 4* with 1 cover but doable with a handful of covers. That is incredibly far from the reality. It's extremely difficult with a handful of covers and godlike luck while impossible with 1 cover. They can't complain about the misunderstanding because we weren't the ones that relayed the terrible misinformation.

Except that there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*. It's by no means easy. I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there. I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do. The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

You're right. It's not you, it's us. We as players keep deluding ourselves into thinking that D3 actually cares about players who'd like to play semi-casually (and specifically retired / semi-retired vets) who'd still like to see some progression. There's not any good reason for not making the 4* node same as the 3* one - require the character, and let you bring whoever else you want from the 3-4* tier in with you.

Once every 5 days means that in 365 days we'd get 73 covers that way, which is enough to cover 5 characters a year if we're very lucky and get no repeats. And you're telling us we got our expectations too high? You're right. I think we did. It's like being in an emotionally abusive relationship. You keep expecting the other party to start treating you with respect, but they never do. And in that case, the thing to do is break up with that person, or in this case, stop playing. Thanks for making that crystal clear. No more DPD for me. Thank god I never used that $150 sitting in my account to buy more hero points.

itstime1234

scottee wrote:

Crowl wrote:

scottee wrote:

Now people are expecting the 4* DDQ to be easy. To beat it with level 1 powers. To beat it on the 1st or 2nd try. To beat it by mindless matching my own colors and getting off my ability.

They've just set the expectations too low for difficulty.

People are not expecting it to be easy, but most will have been expecting it to be doable by those in a 3* to 4* transition and not it only being viable if you are already well into 4* because for all the talk of this being there to speed up the transition to 5*, the reality is that 95% of the awards from it are 4* that are more useful to those who don't already have them.

There's scores of people in the other thread beating it with underleveled XForce. People who have them below 150. To me, that isn't already well into the 4* transition. "Doable" only has to be done once.

Most of the Legendary tokens are already difficult enough. So what if 1 token every 5th day isn't reserved for the most dedicated of fans.

Also being below level 150 is fine if you have a ton of covers. At 4*, covers are far more useful than a few extra levels. Most of my alliance wont dump the iso to get their xforce to level 220+ but still have 11 or more covers.

3* deadpool was for the person with only a few covers to start getting more covers as it was so difficult to do so in PVP and PVE for them. I don't think it is a far stretch that the 4* Deadpool be designed in a similar manner. Maybe a team of 3 with a mandatory required 4 star going through several waves seems far more fair than this random hope you got 7+ covers otherwise you will beat your head against the wall nightmare.

Oh and I already got the cover so this isn't some bias talk.

LegendReborn

itstime1234 wrote:

Most of the Legendary tokens are already difficult enough. So what if 1 token every 5th day isn't reserved for the most dedicated of fans..

That's what I don't get. Some people act like it's some grand act of charity just having the 4* ddq in the game when it doesn't change progression if you just hit a button once every five days and got the token.

It doesn't change the deluge of new 4*s every other week.

It doesn't change the fact that most of the 4*s are mediocre or outright useless.

It doesn't change the fact that even the best 4*s are useless without near max covering.

For some reason the natural easing of progression angers established players as if it cheapens their achievements because now there's some more scraps falling down to other players.

Blykmyk

scottee wrote:

Blykmyk wrote:

Hmmm...so we are arguing that doing the same node over and over (which by definition means little risk/challenge) is as entertaining as a movie?

It is very interesting how throughout this whole thread all the defense of the implementation surrounds monotonous node grinding and shield hopping tactics. is this what should be in the game description if that is what makes the game "fun"???

Finally...really enjoyed the "participation trophy" comment...I mean that is all people were really asking for when pointing out how a lvl 70 vs a 270 wasn't possible...just to be given the token. Smh...

Many 3* rosters are getting 1000 in PVP without hopping. Even if it required it, one hop, maybe two isn't bad to earn a 4*.

So just to be clear again...the "fun"
Of the game is having to shield hop and we should add even know what shield hopping is?

I'm pretty sure that isn't the stated reason why the game is entertaining and fun.

scottee

Blykmyk wrote:

scottee wrote:

Blykmyk wrote:

Hmmm...so we are arguing that doing the same node over and over (which by definition means little risk/challenge) is as entertaining as a movie?

It is very interesting how throughout this whole thread all the defense of the implementation surrounds monotonous node grinding and shield hopping tactics. is this what should be in the game description if that is what makes the game "fun"???

Finally...really enjoyed the "participation trophy" comment...I mean that is all people were really asking for when pointing out how a lvl 70 vs a 270 wasn't possible...just to be given the token. Smh...

Many 3* rosters are getting 1000 in PVP without hopping. Even if it required it, one hop, maybe two isn't bad to earn a 4*.

So just to be clear again...the "fun"
Of the game is having to shield hop and we should add even know what shield hopping is?

I'm pretty sure that isn't the stated reason why the game is entertaining and fun.

Unfortunately, I can't picture a business model where this game offers both solid progression to casual players and a viable competitive system to those who want to be competitive. Some people find it fun to have an adrenaline rush pushing in PVP for 30 min to 1000 hoping they don't get hit. Some people find that excruciating. Some people like thinking through every move for 20 seconds, while some like matching a few reds real quick and blasting the enemy.

For better or worse, they decided to make the game competitive. That definitely limits the amount of people who find it fun long term, and that may be the game's downfall, but that's the path it's chosen.

WelcomeDeath

I think there's two sides to this. It makes sense that you'd have to have some 4* to get a token for 4*. But the jump so high is what is throwing everybody off. If you break it down, it's like this:
1st node good for beginners to level 1* characters (a.i. max 15 level) once you have then leveled a bit.
2nd was good for max 1* trying to get 2* covers (level 30 to 50), guaranteed 2* or better. 3rd was good for leveling 2* that were on their way to max (1000 iso, 75 max level).
Essential was just the ticket for the 3* reward (65 a.i. max level). The last one was max level 130 a.i. so you had to have a decent 3* roster (or very good luck) to beat it.
Then there's legendary...270 max a.i., which is the max level you can get. So we went from needing 75 to 80% of max level to be on even grounds to needing 100% max level to be on even grounds. That's a big jump. Maybe because chance for 5* thrown in? I don't know, but I think maybe add another node for 4* at level 215 or so(that's 80% of 4* max)? And then this suicide mission for chance of 5*.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

Blykmyk wrote:

So just to be clear again...the "fun"
Of the game is having to shield hop and we should add even know what shield hopping is?

I'm pretty sure that isn't the stated reason why the game is entertaining and fun.

Unfortunately, I can't picture a business model where this game offers both solid progression to casual players and a viable competitive system to those who want to be competitive. Some people find it fun to have an adrenaline rush pushing in PVP for 30 min to 1000 hoping they don't get hit. Some people find that excruciating. Some people like thinking through every move for 20 seconds, while some like matching a few reds real quick and blasting the enemy.

For better or worse, they decided to make the game competitive. That definitely limits the amount of people who find it fun long term, and that may be the game's downfall, but that's the path it's chosen.

I think they do provide both. PvE is competitive but not ridiculously competitive like PvP. Anyone who grinds nodes to be competitive in PvE outside of the last hour or two of a sub is doing it wrong. And if you aren't concerned with finishing outside of T100 in PvE 3 clears of a sub a day is nice and casual with a decent reward of Iso and cover. For the casuals you also have DDQs to complete for covers and Iso to help in PvE.

PvP is for the more serious and dedicated players of this game. You shouldn't expect to walk in there and compete against them without putting the time in (though the scoring system does have numerous flaws which have been pointed out).

Lee T

TxMoose wrote:

handful is such a nebulous term. my 7 cover did it first try with some luck. I'd say 5-7 covers could be considered a handful. however, with xforce I think the key is black and I think a 5/1/5 would have a tough time of it, even at 11 covers (although yellow sure would help more than mine). mine is 2/4/1.

Mine is 4/1/2 and boy was it ugly. Wiping the blood of my best 4* off the floor (multiple times) sure isn't fun.

I'm glad to hear some in my lot lucked out, I sure hate to see those branded as brave example of how much this is "possible". I guess this is what statistics do to game development, I peronnally have no patience for when the luck factor is included.

I was hoping for an equivalent to what DDQ 3* has been for me in the start, tough matches I'd have to try a few times but generally succeed in the end. This is the opposite.

In a few months I'll have maxed my 3* (those I like at least) and my roster of 4* will be a bunch of unusable undercovered characters. If nothing is done in the meantime to actually ease transition I'll stop playing out of boredom.

wymtime

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice claimed that it would be difficult with 4* with 1 cover but doable with a handful of covers. That is incredibly far from the reality. It's extremely difficult with a handful of covers and godlike luck while impossible with 1 cover. They can't complain about the misunderstanding because we weren't the ones that relayed the terrible misinformation.

Except that there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*. It's by no means easy. I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there. I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do. The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

Here is a question for you then what level do you expect a 4* to have a good shot at beating a level 270 character with 15 covers? How many covers do you think the 4* should have to be competitive in this battle? I looked at your roster and if you are saying you are winning your battles with a 4* with 6 covers at level 120 or less and you are not wiping out multiple times in the process we would love to know your secret. Powers with just 2 covers just don't do a lot of damage. With 13 4* out how many of theses battles can you actually win?
This should be a challenge I am really fine with that but someone transitioning has 6 covers for 4* building them up with a lot of 3* max covered. The 4* DPDQ should be for people with 4* between level 120-200. As it is people with level 200+ 4* are wiping out multiple times. I am just saying this does not feel like it is for a transitioning player it feels like it is for an established 4* player.

slidecage

the major problem is not today.. the major problem will show up big time in the next 45 to 60 days once the people who are getting the 4 star covers (or 5 stars) while others cant...

THose with a fill 166 3 star roaster go cool i can play against other 166.. but how cool is it giong to be when you start seeing nothing but 4 star max teams and your still stuck with your 166s cause your not good enough to get the 4 star tokens...

unless they start to make 2 PVPs i think your going to see this game go boom in the next 6 months if that

Jorit

My other biggest problem with this setup is there isn't really a lot of strategy. At best you can boost AP (no real strategy) and then by and large you are at the mercy of the RNG with the board drop/placement.

How is this supposed to be fun/interesting?

I can't figure out the right team ups up bring, I can't see who to bring along with me in order to accomplish this feat. I am just praying on the RNG to work out in my favor.

As a side note I am a 4* transitioning player (have about 15 fully covered/leveled 3*) and Wolverine is only covered at 2/3/1 and level 131 so as it is setup don't think it is likely I will get it.

Again this isn't what is bothering me. Even if I was higher level tho nothing would change as there is zero strategy I can to to plan out/do. Other then try to keep him from getting his colors while somehow getting mine.

Do you know if this has to be done today or do we have 5 days do to it. Not going to be very helpful if you are travelling/can't play on the 1 day the special DDQ is up.

acescracked

theHappyDance wrote:

IceIX wrote:

LegendReborn wrote:

Ice claimed that it would be difficult with 4* with 1 cover but doable with a handful of covers. That is incredibly far from the reality. It's extremely difficult with a handful of covers and godlike luck while impossible with 1 cover. They can't complain about the misunderstanding because we weren't the ones that relayed the terrible misinformation.

Except that there are most definitely players doing it with a handful of covers, and more that are doing it with a relatively low leveled 4*. It's by no means easy. I did specifically say that we expect a real live 4* in there. I'm not sure I ever said it was supposed to be easy or something that anyone with that day's 4*, or even that a low leveled 4* could simply do. The closest I said is that I've managed to beat many of the nodes with my Live builds, none of whom barring maybe Wolverine are high leveled.

You're right. It's not you, it's us. We as players keep deluding ourselves into thinking that D3 actually cares about players who'd like to play semi-casually (and specifically retired / semi-retired vets) who'd still like to see some progression. There's not any good reason for not making the 4* node same as the 3* one - require the character, and let you bring whoever else you want from the 3-4* tier in with you.

Once every 5 days means that in 365 days we'd get 73 covers that way, which is enough to cover 5 characters a year if we're very lucky and get no repeats. And you're telling us we got our expectations too high? You're right. I think we did. It's like being in an emotionally abusive relationship. You keep expecting the other party to start treating you with respect, but they never do. And in that case, the thing to do is break up with that person, or in this case, stop playing. Thanks for making that crystal clear. No more DPD for me. Thank god I never used that $150 sitting in my account to buy more hero points.

Could you please just get on with destroying your roster and sail off into the sunset. Don't promise something and not deliver. You are just like d3!

Buret0

It took me 6 tries to win with a level 180 3/4/3 X-force, I finally used a black/green and all AP boost to do it. One full blast or optic blast sends you home, and trying to deny red/yellow/black can be tough.

When I did finally have a surgical strike in my fifth attempt, I had to hold on to it forever because there were only four red tiles on the board.

In my final try, it was only the good fortune of a match five black early in the match that gave me the edge. Even with a ton of red on the board, SS wasn't enough to kill him at only four covers.

Won the battle and got my IW yellow 4* cover for the daily reward and a third black Kingpin cover from the legendary.

Since I plan on using XFW with 4Pool, I manned up and bought the last black cover. Would have been much easier to buy it BEFORE the battle, but after seeing how weak it was at 4 covers, I decided it wasn't worth having him around until he completed his cover set on black.

Buret0

Though I must say...

If we don't get to take team-ups into the 1 v 1 battle, neither should Cyclops. Twice he used a Thor red cover to make yellow matches that led to mutant revolutionary and an optic blast finisher.

Unknown

slidecage wrote:

the major problem is not today.. the major problem will show up big time in the next 45 to 60 days once the people who are getting the 4 star covers (or 5 stars) while others cant...

THose with a fill 166 3 star roaster go cool i can play against other 166.. but how cool is it giong to be when you start seeing nothing but 4 star max teams and your still stuck with your 166s cause your not good enough to get the 4 star tokens...

unless they start to make 2 PVPs i think your going to see this game go boom in the next 6 months if that

What do you mean "start seeing"? Get above 900 pts in PvE and it's a sea of maxed Hulkbuster/Jean Grey/Professor X along with a maxed boosted 3* and required character. I mean a few months ago it was a sea of maxed XF until his nerf.

firethorne

simonsez wrote:

Esheris wrote:

You can use 2stars to earn the 3star in the Deadpool Daily (as long as you have at least one cover). I'm surpised to see this doesn't apply to earning the Legendary token (using 3stars to earn a 4star).

It's a 1-on-1 battle. How are they supposed to require a 4* (in keeping with the 3* cover requirements) and let you use other characters at the same time?

By not making it a 1 on 1. Why get married to that idea?

Or, if we do want to get hitched to it, by making it multiple nodes like existing DDQ, one with a relatively easy 1 on 1 gate node, say a featured character vs a non boosted 166 foe, then a second for the prize vs a boosted foe where you can bring in whoever you want, even a 3* (And yes, I realize Deadpool whales may need tweaking. But there are ways to do that. It is DDQ, Deadpool can break the fourth wall to prevent himself from doing something, because Deadpool).

In other words, there are ways.

Unknown

Everybody is so upset over this, the whole point of it is to get the whales to spend more money on 5* characters, every change they make is to make more money not to make those who spend little or no money happy! It amazes me how bent out of shape people get over a VIDEO GAME, there are more important things in life to get your panties in a twist over folks!

WelcomeDeath

Just thinking again. Ddq goes guaranteed 2* (with a chance of 3*). Then to guaranteed 3. Wouldn't it make sense to have an entry level (like for big enchilada). With a guaranteed 3* with a chance of a 4*? You could even use the featured character for this.
Furthermore...why did d3 skip "rare" tokens?
Star system is 1* standard, 2* heroic, 3* rare, 4* legendary, 5* epic.
Tokens are standard (1* chance for 2* or 3*), heroic (2* minimum chance for 3* or 4*), legendary (min 4* chance for 5*). Why was rare (min 3* good chance for 4*) skipped?
It could even be given as a reward for pvp at 900 pts instead of event token like 4* guaranteed at 1000 random at 1300. And pve halfway between old max prog and legendary. This would bridge the gap a bit.

Dragon_Nexus

I was so disappointed with this. TC pretty much sums up my feelings.

PvE I could probably reach the final progression. I see that as entirely possible for me, often I'd hit the previous final progression and go on to get nearly double (in 4* cover rewards, anyway. 3* stuff is less useful these days since almost all are fully covered).
PvP...1300 isn't going to happen for me. If I peak my head out from the 1000 mark, hell sometimes even the 900 mark, I just get sniped hard. I'm happy enough hitting 1000 occasionally.

The DDQ idea had been floated around the board for some time. Everyone was excited to hear D3 had taken the idea on board and run with it. It wasn't going to be easy, but you could get in there and win yourself a 4* cover just like the 3* covers.
Except my level 166 1/3/5 Wolvie just got pounded into the ground as soon as Cyclops gets 10 reds. 10 times. So...how the heck am I meant to do it with my level 70 Captain Falcon? Or my level 70 Professor X?

Level 270 is a ludicrous level for what the intent is. I know you can't give away 4* like candy, it can't just be a level 80 3* that you stomp on and laugh, but come on guys it's well known that 4* characters need 9-10 covers minimum to be effective, so making this node for 3* transitioners and then barring access to anyone except those who mostly don't even need the covers is madness.

The good thing about DDQ is even if you only have 1 cover for the featured 3*, you can bring two other guys with you to help out. A 2*-3* transitioner would have trouble on the survival node, sure, but it's still do-able with the right team. This, however...if your 4* doesn't have enough covers already, just forget about it. Don't even waste your time or health packs.

And it's once every 5 days. For a *token* no less, you might even put in the hard work to get nothing you needed. Oh joy, another yellow X-Force for me.

At the very least, guys, at the very least can you drop the level from 270 down to something more feasable?

Unknown

acescracked wrote:

Could you please just get on with destroying your roster and sail off into the sunset. Don't promise something and not deliver. You are just like d3!

Yeah, I know. It sucks when someone keeps saying they're going to do something and keeps saying they're making changes that will do something, but they never do those things, doesn't it?

Almost like when someone says they're going to create a 3-4* transition back in early 2015 (April / May or earlier), doesn't add any substantive changes that really create a transition, but say they're going to add a 4* DPD to help, and then finding out 6 months later when they release it that the vaunted 4* DPD is actually for 4-5* transitioners instead. Yeah, that's pretty raw.

Anyway, I decided I'll wait at least until 5 days from now when they next run it and see if they fix it or not. If not, I'm gone. Works out better anyway since I'm pretty busy this week. In the meantime, you're all free to compete with each other for who can suck up enough in the hopes of getting free **** from the devs. Just remember, only 1% of the people who suck up get anything from them, and it's competitive, so get to it.

I still haven't decided not to delete my roster, and I'm still pissed how they mislead us YET AGAIN (if it were just once, I wouldn't care so much, but it's pretty much every time), but you're right that whining isn't productive. I have my standards. I like the core mechanics of this game, but if the devs want me to play it and put more money into it, they have to provide a game that I, and other players like me, want to play. The devs should be competing for our attention, not the other way around.

Peace out, and hopefully at least some of you are still able to enjoy this game. For me the game is stale, and this last move was middle finger combined with a slap in the face. Toodles, kiddos!