So, Etiquette. Your Thoughts?

Unknown

I'll preface this with sorry so long.

I will post in here as a player who is on day 579 but a forumite newb. I've always been able to appreciate etiquette. That said, I knew nothing about etiquette in this game until reading this forum. Why? Because around 1 month ago, I decided to join an Alliance. But before I did so, I came to the forums, as I didn't want to join just any Alliance. My experience trying to rise through the ranks generally goes as follows:

I beat the seed teams, then work my way up as far as I can go 1 day before end of event. Don't shield. Usually am at 300-500ish points at that point. Resume playing the final day. In the evening when I get home from work & eat dinner, shower & all that jazz, I'm looking at no more than 3-4 hours before the end of event. By that time, I've lost points & am usually sitting at 300 or so. I try to climb from there to a shield. I'm unable to play an event to the end without shielding because I get destroyed during the last 30-60 minutes of an event if not shielded. Likely this is due to my strongest team being a level 160, & a few 140ish characters. I know that makes me a target. And mind you, nothing I've wrote is a complaint. Just simply my personal observation.

I have yet to reach 800 in any event. The closest I got was like 770 yesterday. Before I could grab a match, I got pounded down some. Fought a match & was sitting at low 700ish. Shielded. Gained a few points. Knew my shield would run out about 35 minutes before the end of the event. I queued my opponents. When my shield fell, I immediately entered 1st match with intent to play the tournament to the end. I won the match & gained like 40 points, but lost enough points to drop me to 650. Immediately took a 3-hour shield for what was at that point 30 minutes to go, knowing that if I didn't shield, I would've lost my progression. I wound up finishing 95 & got my reward.

This type of experience doesn't allow me the luxury to do anything other than look at points and difficulty to win & that's it. So while I value etiquette, it's difficult for me personally to see how I would perform it while being murdered myself. Personally, what I would like to see is even a 30 or 60-minute shield added. I would actually use that frequently, while being able to save on HP. This is also coming from someone who has only spent $20 real money on the game the whole time I've been playing & that was about 6 weeks ago, to buy HP for roster slots.

Unknown

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

Unknown

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

That's exactly how I've always played it, player vs player. Now I come here & apparently it is accepted by everyone on here that that is not acceptable.

JamesV

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

I think its a natural result of a system that has two tiers of reward levels, both of which are directly effected by variables outside of the players control. Since you have such little control, you naturally find ways to establish control (communication, personal etiquette decisions with the hope that if you do them right, they will do you right, etc.)

I think you'd see a lot of the cooperation/etiquette disappear if progression and placement were separate.

Ebolamonkey84

downsouthman1 wrote:

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

That's exactly how I've always played it, player vs player. Now I come here & apparently it is accepted by everyone on here that that is not acceptable.

Unless you are in direct bracket competition with someone, it benefits all parties involved to wait until someone is shielded to hit. With the lack of 3* releases, I haven't needed placement in the past two seasons, so progression is the only thing worthwhile at this point.

fight4thedream

JamesV wrote:

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

I think its a natural result of a system that has two tiers of reward levels, both of which are directly effected by variables outside of the players control. Since you have such little control, you naturally find ways to establish control (communication, personal etiquette decisions with the hope that if you do them right, they will do you right, etc.)

I think you'd see a lot of the cooperation/etiquette disappear if progression and placement were separate.

To further expound upon this, you also have to realize that the current pVp reward system currently encourages top tier players and alliances to cooperate because the rewards they want, namely 4* characters, are tied mainly in progression and not so much in the competition. Yes, 1st place gets you a 4* but I think most top tier players know getting 1st would require either being in a very well coordinated alliance or extreme luck (i.e. getting an easy last minute bracket).

Most top tier players already have most if not all of the 3* characters cover maxed so the rewards from the competitive side can be considered the "cherry on top", nice to have but not essential. Of course, alliances have their n00bs and they try to help them place as best they can but high end pVp is becoming more and more about cooperating than competing simply because if the goal is to get 1300 and it makes far more sense to work together than beat down on each other.

Although I am very happy to see such magnanimity amongst players, I also wonder how this affects those at the middle of the totem pole. I'm pretty sure 90% of those in the top 25 already had Psylocke fully covered in the last pVp which means one or two players out of 25 got a cover they actually needed from the competitive side. Perhaps I have just been eternally banished into a death bracket (which is fine, I like seeing familiar names) since I don't often see 2*-3* transitioners complaining about the wall as much as I used to.

I've been debating on whether to post on this very issue, thinking perhaps a restructuring of the awards system is in order with the introduction of proper 4* PvPs into season event rotations but at the same time I am very much enjoying the camaraderie between awesome players and would hate to see it lost with a shift in the rewards system. However, with increase in 4* into the character pool I do believe, as others have suggested, that it's only a matter of time before proper 4* PvPs arrive and war once again let's out its cry to test the bonds that have been made in this moment of peace.

But for now, let us enjoy this great silver age while it lasts！o(ﾟ∇^☆)／ﾌﾚｰ＼(*^∇^*)／ﾌﾚｰ＼(☆^∇ﾟ)o

tl;dr: Please read Ebola's post above lol

Unknown

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

downsouthman1 wrote:

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

That's exactly how I've always played it, player vs player. Now I come here & apparently it is accepted by everyone on here that that is not acceptable.

Unless you are in direct bracket competition with someone, it benefits all parties involved to wait until someone is shielded to hit. With the lack of 3* releases, I haven't needed placement in the past two seasons, so progression is the only thing worthwhile at this point.

My thing is, I made a mistake at the beginning of DDQ. I didn't understand it & didn't care to. By the time I even looked into it to figure it out, I realized I had passed up on countless 3* covers. I don't know how many. But looking at other rosters has validated the mistakes. Same mistake when I passed up on Alliances until about one month ago.

The point for me is now I'm trying to play catch up. I'm playing a game at this moment that others have already played & no longer need to play. So they may play for progression, but I'm not there yet. I waited too long. That doesn't mean all is lost now; quite the contrary. But it just means I can't play the way most people play at the moment.

Arimis_Thorn

Drummerboycroy wrote:

Am I the only one who finds it kind of ironic that MPQ-style PvP ends up being far more cooperative than competitive at the higher levels of play?

Shield-hopping? Coordinated strikes via outside communication? Sniping as an actual "etiquette problem?"

Makes me chuckle to realize that there are likely some naive folks out there who actually think PvP is supposed to be, well, player vs. player.

DBC

Except it's not actually PVP. It's Player vs AI playing another Player's team. If it were true PVP I think more people would think like you do, but it just not the same.

SodaPopinski

franckynight wrote:

High end pvp is a very different kind of animal.. It could appear weird for some ppl but now each slice is ruled by a top 10 team. With time and to spare endless war, top teams tend to operate in the same shard.. Thats how it is.. No one can really explain it.. As far as i am concerned, we re very defensive about ppl who come in our shard looking for easy points.. We re always inclined to let them know they ll have to work hard for those points.. That means endless gang hits until they re ready to shield check.. I couldnt count how many guys we have hunted down with my pals shamsali, viral core, misstique or phraeg.. What we love is to bully the bullies especially the late climbers..We re not opposed to let ppl make their points as long as they are respectful.. Or else You ll be sure to give the points back.. .. Like i said high end pvp is a whole different story..

This is all very reasonable from a top end alliance, that is how you stay top end! These alliances have helped me attain my progressions with the large point values and I appreciate that because I do not have a lot of time to play. I usually also know that I can pre-que while I am using my first shield at 900 or so and they will still be worth the points once I WAIT for them to re-shield (instead of a lot less than advertised, which has happened to most of us ).

Both sides do make sense when dealing with so many gamer personalities, it just happens to come to a head when points are on the line. Common courtesy is my view, unless backed into a corner from a hop that went wrong.

MPQ is my evening get away once my family is in bed and it is more enjoyable without ruffling feathers to create sniping.

TL;DR - If I hit you late it was because I ran into unexpected trouble while hopping...not because I choose to be a tinykitty-er.

cosm0naut

I don't see names, I see point values.

Unknown

i thought shielding removed these people from the selectable rotation? the only way to tap them while they are shielded is to have them queued up and waiting for that magic moment. despite coordinating, there were extreme limits to how much that system could be "utilized" (read: "abused" if you like).

some times of day i get hit as if there is a "kick me" sign on my back even though i hadn't played the SIM in 2 days, some days it is just as if i'm the only one playing this game at all.

Ebolamonkey84

cosm0naut wrote:

I don't see names, I see point values.

Those point values will see your name though, and if you hit multiple people from one of the top end alliances you will notice their names in all of the attacks you get.

Unknown

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

cosm0naut wrote:

I don't see names, I see point values.

Those point values will see your name though, and if you hit multiple people from one of the top end alliances you will notice their names in all of the attacks you get.

And that's my biggest issue, the secret "etiquette" of the top alliances. I have no idea how I got on a hit list for one group and got hit many, many times in a recent event, but its aggravating to know that there are secret rules to climbing. Am I supposed to feel bad that I mistakenly hit someone more than once? Am I supposed to feel like I've learned my lesson because they've "punished" me for breaking their rules? Am I supposed to bow down to them and join their chat so I don't break their rules anymore?

I agree that there really isn't any etiquette except what we go by as individuals. My way of playing is to do my best, but I don't try to ruin anyone's experience. It's a game. If I target someone repeatedly, they might stop having fun and stop playing altogether (I realize I really don't have that type of power...). And in the end, that's not good for the game...

Linkster79

franckynight wrote:

High end pvp is a very different kind of animal.. It could appear weird for some ppl but now each slice is ruled by a top 10 team. With time and to spare endless war, top teams tend to operate in the same shard.. Thats how it is.. No one can really explain it.. As far as i am concerned, we re very defensive about ppl who come in our shard looking for easy points.. We re always inclined to let them know they ll have to work hard for those points.. That means endless gang hits until they re ready to shield check.. I couldnt count how many guys we have hunted down with my pals shamsali, viral core, misstique or phraeg.. What we love is to bully the bullies especially the late climbers..We re not opposed to let ppl make their points as long as they are respectful.. Or else You ll be sure to give the points back.. .. Like i said high end pvp is a whole different story..

So let me get this right. A player enters the shard your alliance "owns" fairly late into the event, they do the best they can and because they break some unwritten rule that they have no knowledge of and maybe get some high points while you are doing one of your shield hops, you and your alliance love to give them the slap down as a gang? Then to top it off due to lack of in game cross alliance chat they may not even know what they have may have done "wrong" except to play the game?

I hate bullying with a passion in any form. You talk of players being respectful of rules that you have made yourself yet then carry on to endorse a form of cyber bullying? All for playing a game the way it has been designed to play? Don't get me wrong, I will attack anyone and everyone but I do it by myself without the need of a gang to back me up.

I am so glad I am not in a very high scoring alliance if this is the type of behaviour is required.

Scoregasms

I dunno, feel like they can solve a good chunk of frustration by tweaking the MMR system (which still makes zero sense to me). It does suck to come out of hop to see a -75 point hit, esp when you're only q'ing folks for 30-40 points at that level, you're lucky to come out positive most times. I don't hate that player per se, just hate that the system allows for such a weird mechanic. I get it, climbers are gonna hit the highest point totals they see, we ALL do that on our climb. There's the decrease in points lost below a certain threshold to soften that, but above that, you lose 100% of those points. Just seeing someone who has 1000+ points below me be able q and hit me def stings a bit, lol (and no, not a retal before you ask). I mean, I asked someone who was able to hit me (I was shielded) and lost, I got +0 and they lost 0, so there's literally zero downside for a player who has that kind of q not to go for it (even if the team is a crazy one). Seems off to me, but perhaps that is by design.

If they just limited the top of what you can q to say 500 points above where you are, then a lot of this can be avoided as folks you battle and q are around your level. Above 800, all q limitations are off and let the battles go as they do today. At that point, folks are gonna be competitive anyway and just let people play as they need to (cooperate or not).

Xeonic-Ice

franckynight wrote:

High end pvp is a very different kind of animal.. It could appear weird for some ppl but now each slice is ruled by a top 10 team. With time and to spare endless war, top teams tend to operate in the same shard.. Thats how it is.. No one can really explain it.. As far as i am concerned, we re very defensive about ppl who come in our shard looking for easy points.. We re always inclined to let them know they ll have to work hard for those points.. That means endless gang hits until they re ready to shield check.. I couldnt count how many guys we have hunted down with my pals shamsali, viral core, misstique or phraeg.. What we love is to bully the bullies especially the late climbers..We re not opposed to let ppl make their points as long as they are respectful.. Or else You ll be sure to give the points back.. .. Like i said high end pvp is a whole different story..

Fear != Respect

I've been on the receiving end of this onslaught, and honestly, I laughed. Shamsali hit me once when he was climbing early in an event and he hit me when I was worth roughly 20 points. I then retaliated because he was worth 50 or so. That went back and forth a couple times where I was gaining more points than I was losing. Eventually, I think he became enraged because he hit me at least 10 times in a 15-30 minute period. He was gaining 1 point per victory so it seemed like he was attempting to "send a message" and I know he was boosting to be able to get that many wins that fast. I got the message and got an ice cream cone (cookie mintster!).

No reason to bully people in any form. If you're worth points, you're going to get hit. It comes with trying to get to the top.

I don't snipe just to snipe. Getting to 1300 isn't easy so I take points where I can. If I'm ever in a position where I'm in first and I don't need the covers, I back off to let someone else have at it. Walkyourpath did that for me a few times and I greatly appreciated it.

puppychow

Prof Krusty wrote:

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

cosm0naut wrote:

I don't see names, I see point values.

Those point values will see your name though, and if you hit multiple people from one of the top end alliances you will notice their names in all of the attacks you get.

And that's my biggest issue, the secret "etiquette" of the top alliances. I have no idea how I got on a hit list for one group and got hit many, many times in a recent event, but its aggravating to know that there are secret rules to climbing. Am I supposed to feel bad that I mistakenly hit someone more than once? Am I supposed to feel like I've learned my lesson because they've "punished" me for breaking their rules? Am I supposed to bow down to them and join their chat so I don't break their rules anymore?

I've been hit 14x by Crewsaders in Fresh Cuts event, and we're only on day 2. My crime? For retaliating on a hit by a Crewsader on day 1. It is quite amusing when a whale decides to send in 3 alliance mates to hit me for that retaliation, and then when I retaliate again hits me for the retal, then hits me for 18, 16, 15 points for good measure. In all, this flake hit me a total of six times in 3 hours. Tsk tsk

Is the gangbanging supposed to teach me to let Crewsaders hit me and not retaliate? Or did the guy feel humiliated because his max carnage (buffed this week remember), HB defense got whacked in retaliations. .. 3x? By a guy carrying a level 182 4 as his highest character? Things that make you go hmmmmm

I'm just not a guy who runs away from bullying. It doesn't work on me. Sorry.

puppychow

Xeonic-Ice wrote:

Fear != Respect

I've been on the receiving end of this onslaught, and honestly, I laughed. Shamsali hit me once when he was climbing early in an event and he hit me when I was worth roughly 20 points. I then retaliated because he was worth 50 or so. That went back and forth a couple times where I was gaining more points than I was losing. Eventually, I think he became enraged because he hit me at least 10 times in a 15-30 minute period. He was gaining 1 point per victory so it seemed like he was attempting to "send a message" and I know he was boosting to be able to get that many wins that fast. I got the message and got an ice cream cone (cookie mintster!).

No reason to bully people in any form. If you're worth points, you're going to get hit. It comes with trying to get to the top.

Seriously, Shamsali hit you for 1 point per victory? He's only hit me twice so far. Should I feel disrespected?

I understand that trading hits are part of the game, but people need to chill out sometimes.

puppychow

franckynight wrote:

High end pvp is a very different kind of animal.. It could appear weird for some ppl but now each slice is ruled by a top 10 team. With time and to spare endless war, top teams tend to operate in the same shard.. Thats how it is.. No one can really explain it.. As far as i am concerned, we re very defensive about ppl who come in our shard looking for easy points.. We re always inclined to let them know they ll have to work hard for those points.. That means endless gang hits until they re ready to shield check.. I couldnt count how many guys we have hunted down with my pals shamsali, viral core, misstique or phraeg.. What we love is to bully the bullies especially the late climbers..We re not opposed to let ppl make their points as long as they are respectful.. Or else You ll be sure to give the points back.. .. Like i said high end pvp is a whole different story..

While I respect you personally, I don't appreciate the fact that your alliance is willing to engage in bullying tactics. I have been hit 14x so far in Fresh Cuts, and it started because I had the nerve to retaliate on a hit by a Crewsader on day 1; he actually hit me 6x on day 1 (the last three hits yielding 18, 16, 15 points). In no way can I be called a "bully." Just look at my roster.

I don't mind trading hits with your alliance members, but if the end result is that your alliance loses the top spot to Villains Inc., then you have no one to blame but yourselves.

As a courtesy, I should note that Warwizard, Viral Core, and Maestro are lined up in my queue with each worth 70+ points. I chose not to attack them when they were pushing this morning; I simply don't like to snipe people. Hopefully I will avoid hitting them whenever they break shield. No promises though!

Puertorico

puppychow wrote:

franckynight wrote:

High end pvp is a very different kind of animal.. It could appear weird for some ppl but now each slice is ruled by a top 10 team. With time and to spare endless war, top teams tend to operate in the same shard.. Thats how it is.. No one can really explain it.. As far as i am concerned, we re very defensive about ppl who come in our shard looking for easy points.. We re always inclined to let them know they ll have to work hard for those points.. That means endless gang hits until they re ready to shield check.. I couldnt count how many guys we have hunted down with my pals shamsali, viral core, misstique or phraeg.. What we love is to bully the bullies especially the late climbers..We re not opposed to let ppl make their points as long as they are respectful.. Or else You ll be sure to give the points back.. .. Like i said high end pvp is a whole different story..

While I respect you personally, I don't appreciate the fact that your alliance is willing to engage in bullying tactics. I have been hit 14x so far in Fresh Cuts, and it started because I had the nerve to retaliate on a hit by a Crewsader on day 1; he actually hit me 6x on day 1 (the last three hits yielding 18, 16, 15 points). In no way can I be called a "bully." Just look at my roster.

I don't mind trading hits with your alliance members, but if the end result is that your alliance loses the top spot to Villains Inc., then you have no one to blame but yourselves.

As a courtesy, I should note that Warwizard, Viral Core, and Maestro are lined up in my queue with each worth 70+ points. I chose not to attack them when they were pushing this morning; I simply don't like to snipe people. Hopefully I will avoid hitting them whenever they break shield. No promises though!

You fail to realize the crewsaders couldn't care less about points or beating some other alliance on the leaderboard. Been there done that gets old quick. When you go to their shard and snipe on of them you can rest assure you will be hit multiple times by multiple players over and over again. Whether it's for 75 points or 1 point they will make it hard for you to reach 1300.