So, Etiquette. Your Thoughts?

Chief270

puppychow wrote:

An xman who shall remain unnamed hit me 3x in one session in the if event. Too bad he doesn't realize I actually look at the names, and I'll be motivated to hit him more frequently in the near future.

Unknown

Ha! I had the same experience as puppychow this week when trying to climb. Apparently I hit too many members of a certain group and got put on a "hit list" without knowing. Every jump I tried to make I got hit multiple times by the same person and then by others from the same ally. I was still able to hit my 1k so I didn't lose much...

I was informed that if I joined their chat and laid off, they would remove my name. No thanks...

The problem is that there are multiple etiquette rules out there. The game alone has a vague set of rules and then some groups have formed their own.

My personal rules are to try to play the game. I don't intentionally hit people multiple times and if I can see their names on the leaderboards then I'll wait until shielded. But if people aren't in my group and I can't see them, I hope they don't take it personally if I get them while unshielded.

babinro

There is no etiqutte in pvp.

When it comes down to 2 people fighting for top placement rewards at the end of a pvp then all etiquette is thrown out the window. They won't simply let each other casually hop 3 plus matches without doing anything...they'll typically try to snipe directly or possibly request their alliance/truces to snipe.

In that regard etiquette in MPQ is based around urgency to act.

My own personal playstyle fits that mentality as follows:
- I wont hit an alliance/truce teamember when they are unshielded

- I tend to avoid people I got along with in prior alliances/Line when able. In situations where I queue someone I know whose worth a lot of points (IE: 60+ where others are 30-40) then I'll often set them aside and try one or maybe two matches assuming the points are there. This is a silent courtesy on my part. I'll ultimately hit them when points dry up and I need targets to climb to shield or climb to finish an event.

- The general exception to the above is Colog (sorry, lol). He tends to run unique teams I don't see every day as well as newer characters. The last pvp I hit him twice with Fistbuster duo as he was running a maxed out Jean Grey. This let me test out just how much a deterrant Jean was to Fistbuster. While I managed to win both hits I did trigger her stun once and had to risk doing so again. Meaning it's not a matchup I'd want to risk when shield hopping. To be fair I do this stuff with anyone running rare teams but more often than not it turns out to be Colog.

- If you're a complete stranger to me or just someone I don't talk to then you're fair game. The easier the battle/roster and the more points you offer than the more likely I'll hit you since it minimizes the odds of a retal. I'll do what is tactically advantageous without deliberately going out of my way to snipe. If this means double taps so be it. If it means repeatedly hitting someone for 50 while they retal for 5 then so be it. Whatever it takes.

- As with my opening comments I'll throw all etiquette out the window nearing the end of an event when going for either top 5 or top 1 rewards that I sorely need. This is about the only time I'll deliberately attempt to snipe someone. Most of the time they'll know it because they are often doing the same thing in return.

simonsez

babinro wrote:

There is no etiqutte in pvp.

When it comes down to 2 people fighting for top placement rewards at the end of a pvp then all etiquette is thrown out the window.

Completely agree with this, but we're now at the point where it's no longer just 2 people fighting one another. It's turned into more of a gangbang, with different Walmart alliances staking a claim to one shard or another, and laying waste to anyone who tries to come in and climb off them. Might as well just stop referring to shards by numbers, and instead refer to them by the alliance that "owns" them. I totally get etiquette being thrown out the window, but coordinated bullying seems like it'd fall outside of how the devs intend PvP to work.

Unknown

If i queue a player that is clearly on a hop, i wait a decent amount of time before hitting them. In my opinion, that is just good form. I'm never actively looking to take points away from another player...even someone with whom i am competing directly in the same bracket.

Granted, PVP for players at the highest end is a little different...i can afford to queue a player and wait until they are re-shielded because i myself am also shielded and only looking for targets for my next hop.

Regarding double and triple tapping, i do my best to not hit a player multiple times within a close time span...again i consider it a courtesy. Does it happen sometimes because of circumstances? Yes, it does...and i have and do do it on occasion.

If i get multiple hits from a player that i recognize, most times i reach out on Line and have a discussion with them. In almost all of those instances, said player and i walk away from our talk with a mutual respect and an understanding of each other's positions. And in most cases, it doesn't happen again.

As it has been suggested in several posts before mine, making some friends and joining a BC or check room can really work wonders for your scores. Get out there and make some friends .

Safe hops to all.

easy...marc

Linkster79

There is no etiquette. PvP is a dog eat dog world and I will nail anyone I deem suitable as many times as possible if need be. Friends, alliance members I have attacked them all and I would again if I had to. I know that by saying this I will most likely be placed on some sort of hit list, I couldn't give a fig, if folks want to do that kind of thing then good luck to them.

Wonko33

Linkster79 wrote:

There is no etiquette. PvP is a dog eat dog world and I will nail anyone I deem suitable as many times as possible if need be. Friends, alliance members I have attacked them all and I would again if I had to. I know that by saying this I will most likely be placed on some sort of hit list, I couldn't give a fig, if folks want to do that kind of thing then good luck to them. BOOHAHAHAH

Fixed.

wymtime

fmftint wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

If you don't have your 2 or 3 matches lined up before you unshield you're doing it wrong. If you're at a point where you haven't used your first shield yet you can afford to wait 8m before hitting a 70+ point target.

I can't thumb up enough. Looking for targets while hopping is just asking for trouble

I agree and disagree with dkffiv. When I shield hop I always line up my opponents wait 10-15 min before I go. There are other times I am going for 1000 points on one shield. At the point when you are at 900+ points you have to skip a lot of people and if you don't hit someone big you could also lose huge. You might skip 5-10 25-28 point matches and then you see 68 points and that one match will let you hit 1000 and then shield. As much as I would like to wait and not ruin that players shield hop sometimes you just have to hit them.

GothicKratos

Here's the thing; PvP is a competition. There are no rules, unless they are written, and that's just it.

You can try and pretty it up and say you're playing "more sportsmanlike" than the other players playing unencumbered, but your rules are self-imposed.

It's like playing Modern Warfare 3 and complaining about the MP7, SitRep Pro, "head glitching", or camping. Yeah, there's some argument of skill ceiling and such, but the bottom like is they're trying to win and they're doing what they need to do to insure their victory. Yeah, those things are pretty freaking annoying, but it does simply boil down to winning and losing. Yeah, I totally get a giggle when someone talks **** after a match of camping with SitRep Pro, and I'll probably say something about them need to get some skill in their life, but I understand they're just doing what they can do win.

That being said, I give props to people like over_clocked and some others that maintain gigantic truces through LINE. I understand that that makes the game more enjoyable for them, because all that coordination makes certain things in the game less frustrating. A lot of these folks to in fact encumber themselves and still place very well for themselves.

tl;dr: both sides of the coin are understandable in my book.

Ducky

If you don't share my alliance tag, you get hit. There are a very select few (I can count them on one hand) who I will shield check.

Will I hit you multiple times? If the points are there, yes. Do I care if you lose points while shielding? No. If you don't want to get hit, don't unshield.

Most people know I don't participate in truces of any sort, but I also climb really late in events, so a lot of people usually avoid my climbing.

Turbosmooth

There is a problem with PvP design which I'm gathering evidence for. Basically, it is unfair to be hit for 300 points within 12 minutes. I have never gotten nasty with anyone yet I'm high on a hit list per PvP event. Although once I said **** after finding out how gangs target PvP, and that seemed to make matters worse. I suspect it is mostly due to my sub-166 roster so I'm an easy target. I am only going for progression and have never placed in top 10.

So it takes me 2 shields to get to 820. And I hope I can run to 1000. But as soon as I unshield, I am already negative with my first win. By my second win, I'm -200 +60. I grind through more matches only using one health pack for every two matches. I use all health packs meaning I played ~20 matches. My score is at 810 after an hour. Why even play? Roughly I was +600 but -610 at the same time.

One of my solutions to bring balance to the force is to limit the loss a player can take every 10 minutes to 30. This would stop the gang violence. Each hour you can lose 180 points, so D3 would still get their shield money. Otherwise progression is never going to happen, and I would hate to lose interest in this game due to frustration.

morph3us

I generally try not to double tap anyone if I can help it, but I can be forgetful, and do it sometimes.

I generally drop my first shield above 900 (usually above 1K), and I don't really have the luxury of checking shield status while I'm running up there as fast as I can. The exception to that is if I have a high value target/retal lined up well in advance.

When I'm actually shield hopping, I do check shield status. It just doesn't feel good to me to snipe someone mid hop, and I don't enjoy doing it. From a purely cold-blooded pragmatic point of view, it makes more sense for me to let someone complete their hop anyway, they'll be worth more points.

Sometimes I find a high value target just before I unshield. In that instance, I tend to try and delay my breaking shield, if possible. If it's not possible, I leave them until last, and hit my other 1-2 targets first, and hope they've reshielded by the time I hit them. If I complete my other two matches first, and they still haven't reshielded yet, then I'm not going to risk losing points by waiting.

over_clocked

I extend courtesy to those who I know do the same. If you do but I don't know of that for some reason, let me know. I used to skip every forumite I recognized but stopped when I realized some don't return the favour and when the number of active forumites grew quite a lot.
It's also a time commitment; some find it too much, some effortlessly add it to their allotted MPQ playtime. I enjoy the social aspects a lot and if not for them, I'd likely stop playing by now. Not just concerning our 20-person alliance but many, many more.
The so-called etiquette allows for many bad things as correctly mentioned (alliances hogging entire time slices), which is very helpful for progressions though.
But it also developed to a point where players who fight for placement might settle it in such a polite fashion that no bracket sniping occurs, or sniping by their alliance mates. The luck of the board, the speed of the shieldhop, the strength of the roster often solve such disputes now and no one is left bitter and sad, as a rule, or not for long.
I wouldn't turn my back on players I have been hopping alongside for a t1 cover (t5 covers stopped being relevant a while ago with new 3* releases coming down to a halt), and frankly, most competitive players I know likely wouldn't since the benefits of having many hop/queue buddies are pretty awesome. What's a 4* cover compared to that? There are many more to come via progression rewards and other venues. That said, I would like to grab t1 in Fresh Cut, hope my maxed Carnage and Kingpin would allow me to do it, lol. If not, I won't die or even notice the loss of some 2-3 extra shields.
Keeping to the code among players I know in that bracket is more important, long term.
It's also very easy to climb late and pay attention to no one if you have a good roster like Ducky mentioned, but it's a bit more stressful and doesn't always play out the way you want. I've seen people lose out on progressions due to late starts way too many times. Some people like the minimal shield expenditure and the adrenaline rush, some people prefer knowing there are hundreds of players out there that would not treat them like strangers. Despite technically being strangers.
Sorry for a long post.
tl;dr: all attitudes have their merits, it's a personal choice but there's no harm trying new things and discovering what suits you best.

puppychow

puppychow wrote:

An xman who shall remain unnamed hit me 3x in one session in the if event. Too bad he doesn't realize I actually look at the names, and I'll be motivated to hit him more frequently in the near future.

A crewsader who shall remain nameless hit me 6x in 3 hours on day 1 of fresh cut event. I only retal'ed for his original hit, but then he called in 3 more crewsaders to hit me. Seems like someone's feelings got hurt here.

No biggie. Traded hits again to regain my lost points. It's not often I get to slap the same crewsader down 3x in one night carrying a max carnage defense, plus winning against a max jean team.

puppychow

Turbosmooth wrote:

One of my solutions to bring balance to the force is to limit the loss a player can take every 10 minutes to 30. This would stop the gang violence. Each hour you can lose 180 points, so D3 would still get their shield money. Otherwise progression is never going to happen, and I would hate to lose interest in this game due to frustration.

The maximum number of points you can lose in one hit is 75. That generally occurs at around a 500 point difference between attacker and defender. So if you're unlucky and got hit by someone from the bottom, the point loss can pile up quickly. That said, I think the notion of a limit on point loss is a bad idea, because coordinated groups can simply pile hits on each other to reach the limit, then the target will become freed of further point loss. With that "shield" the target can then go on a bull run until he runs out of targets. We're talking 1000+ points easily in one sitting. Thus, a limitation on point loss will be abused by coordinated players, and we'll see sky high scores become commonplace. Will this allow players to reach 3,000 points?

Colognoisseur

babinro wrote:

- The general exception to the above is Colog (sorry, lol). He tends to run unique teams I don't see every day as well as newer characters. The last pvp I hit him twice with Fistbuster duo as he was running a maxed out Jean Grey. This let me test out just how much a deterrant Jean was to Fistbuster. While I managed to win both hits I did trigger her stun once and had to risk doing so again. Meaning it's not a matchup I'd want to risk when shield hopping. To be fair I do this stuff with anyone running rare teams but more often than not it turns out to be Colog.

I have noticed this but to the point of the thread you always do this early on in the PvP not towards the end when I would be driving for my final placement. That is respect and etiquette all at once. I appreciate that.

I think each player has to come up with their own code which feels right to them. I respect everyone who has posted so far because when I have played against them in PvP I know what I'm up against because they are consistent.

My personal code of PvP etiquette goes in order:
1.) No hits on teammates unless I know they are shielded
2.) No hits on allies in battle chat unless I know they are shielded
3.) No double tapping or even trying to hit the same person twice in any given PvP event unless I know they are shielded.
4.) Always hit Babinro.....always hit Babinro.....always hit Babinro.

Okay #4 is not really true but it could be.

GrumpySmurf1002

The only etiquette thing that really bugs me is this scenario:

Two players fighting for 1st. One has the 4* maxed, the other doesn't. I understand driving up your season score, but I have infinitely more respect for the guy/gal that will back off.

I personally try not to double tap if I can avoid it, but the wonderful matchmaking creates unavoidable situations. Same goes for hitting hoppers, if I happen to be climbing and a 60+ match pops up, I'll try to skip through the other nodes first but if there isn't much else of worth, I'm going in.

I also try to skip the more recognizable forumites if I can, because it reduces the amount of whining I might read here.

Malcrof

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

I also try to skip the more recognizable forumites if I can, because it reduces the amount of whining I might read here.

No-one skips me.. then again, i rarely take the time to check the name of the person i am about to attack.. i look at team and points.. everything else takes too long to notice and i am usually in a hurry as i get beat down rather quickly when i try to climb.

franckynight

High end pvp is a very different kind of animal.. It could appear weird for some ppl but now each slice is ruled by a top 10 team. With time and to spare endless war, top teams tend to operate in the same shard.. Thats how it is.. No one can really explain it.. As far as i am concerned, we re very defensive about ppl who come in our shard looking for easy points.. We re always inclined to let them know they ll have to work hard for those points.. That means endless gang hits until they re ready to shield check.. I couldnt count how many guys we have hunted down with my pals shamsali, viral core, misstique or phraeg.. What we love is to bully the bullies especially the late climbers..We re not opposed to let ppl make their points as long as they are respectful.. Or else You ll be sure to give the points back.. .. Like i said high end pvp is a whole different story..

tanis3303

I joined a massive truce with a good dozen alliances and almost 100 players on LINE. I was only gonna do it for one event because I really needed the 1K cover (this was before the point increase, so 1K was a real hurdle) but after one event of chatting and coordinating with this group, I realized not joining it permanently would just be silly. On one hand, its a great group of guys and gals, and it makes the experience a lot more fun for me and humanizes the names you see when you're finding PvP matches. On the other hand, with just a few simple posts in the chat room of whatever shard you end up in, those 100 players will leave you alone until they know you're shielded. I haven't taken more than one or two negative hits that weren't from retaliations since I joined. That's not one or two per event either. That's one or two since I joined. Its awesome, and it's made the PvP experience 1,000% more enjoyable.

As for my habits outside of the truce, I try to avoid the double-tap, but as others have posted, sometimes there's only 4 people available in your queue, so it does happen. Rarely will I do it unless that 2nd hit bumps me over 1K tho, I try very hard to find other targets unless a 2nd hit on someone can put me over that threshold. As for my targets, I always check alliance names before going in. If you're not in the truce list, you're getting it. There are a few people that I chat with on LINE that aren't members of the truce that I just like as people, so I do avoid them and usually their alliance mates as well, or at least check their shield status before hitting.