**** Deadpool (Uncanny X-Force) ****

Unknown

I dunno about Thing/4P/Loki. It just feels like you are wasting a slot with low health Loki. Loki will get killed in one hit. No one cares about the protect tiles, they will get matched away or destroyed, but Loki is square in the one hit from a 4* range. They'll eat dmg from 4P and deal wit hthe protect tiles if they can gut your team to 2 characters almost instantly. On top of that, Loki's black is useless on the team, and you most likely will use 4P for purple, so you are keeping Loki just for anti-matching purposes, that just feels wasteful, especially when the top tier is loaded with people who are AP generators. I'd rather waste the slot with Cyclops or even Hood, before Loki. Could trivialize match dmg with Cage to force them to use hard hitting attacks too...

Man too bad I don't have a single Thing or 4P...haha
- Unreall

morph3us

Unreallystic wrote:

I dunno about Thing/4P/Loki. It just feels like you are wasting a slot with low health Loki. Loki will get killed in one hit. No one cares about the protect tiles, they will get matched away or destroyed, but Loki is square in the one hit from a 4* range. They'll eat dmg from 4P and deal wit hthe protect tiles if they can gut your team to 2 characters almost instantly. On top of that, Loki's black is useless on the team, and you most likely will use 4P for purple, so you are keeping Loki just for anti-matching purposes, that just feels wasteful, especially when the top tier is loaded with people who are AP generators. I'd rather waste the slot with Cyclops or even Hood, before Loki. Could trivialize match dmg with Cage to force them to use hard hitting attacks too...

Loki won't get one shotted, with Thing around, Thing will keep on jumping in front, unless you use an AE, in which case X-Enforcer will go off. Having said that, I'm not sure that Loki is a good fit as the third character. I think you're either better off bringing a third threat to better cover the rainbow for actives, or bringing an accelerator for red or purple or green.

Buret0

Unreallystic wrote:

I dunno about Thing/4P/Loki. It just feels like you are wasting a slot with low health Loki. Loki will get killed in one hit. No one cares about the protect tiles, they will get matched away or destroyed, but Loki is square in the one hit from a 4* range. They'll eat dmg from 4P and deal wit hthe protect tiles if they can gut your team to 2 characters almost instantly. On top of that, Loki's black is useless on the team, and you most likely will use 4P for purple, so you are keeping Loki just for anti-matching purposes, that just feels wasteful, especially when the top tier is loaded with people who are AP generators. I'd rather waste the slot with Cyclops or even Hood, before Loki. Could trivialize match dmg with Cage to force them to use hard hitting attacks too...

Man too bad I don't have a single Thing or 4P...haha
- Unreall

Just have to hope that Loki is boosted during the Pool Party PvP. Because you are right, he is a squishy character otherwise. Of course, the fact that he is low health does mean that you need to take Thing down a lot further before he stops jumping in front. If Loki has 7,500+ Health when boosted (5,950 max unboosted), what does that do for your analysis?

At 5,950 health, that's still a lot of match damage at match 3 and a risk at match 4+. It is a team that I would probably skip unless they were worth a ton of points. If neither Thing or Loki were boosted, I probably would fight them with whatever my normal climbing team was.

Buret0

Anyone know if Jean Grey's Purple causes 4Pool's Countdown for What to cause damage? Off the top of my head I would assume that the ability would cause the damage, but because the tile isn't actually destroyed I am hesitant.

Unknown

It does not trigger it. In fact with my Jean, I usually try and hit green first, and then purple. Purple will remove the countdown tiles that will do damage for hitting his teammates, as well as remove the countdown tiles that blow up (they are turned to basic tiles, not destroyed).

simonsez

I'd be interested to hear from those who've whaled him up already. On paper, I was convinced 5/3/5 was the way to go, but in practice, the passive is getting triggered so often (maybe I just suck?) that I can't ignore all that free damage potential. If you've cover-maxed him, which build and why?

eidehua

I'm thinking either 5/4/4 or 3/5/5.

I don't think going from 4 to 5 purple does much difference on average, since you probably only shatter 3-4 of the tiles. While the difference from 3->4 black is minimal (649), the difference between 4 to 5 purple per tile is 191, so 649/191 = 3.39 tiles shattered to equal 1 black activation. And I think adding more damage to a skill that brings you back from behind is useful.
So instead of 5 purple 3 black I'd do 4 purple 4 black.
Also black seems useless on defense, but will people take out a higher priority target if they will take 1k damage? Would the 3.5k from max black be more of a deterrent?

Red is either you max it or leave it at 3 since the damage and heal increase from 4->5 is huge, and there are already other great reds. Most red batteries have strong reds themselves, but I suppose it would be nice to have flexibility in red usage. Deadpool is slow on his own so getting to 13 red will take a long time.

And xforce wolvie and xforce deadpool is a great team, but also slow since neither can generate ap, and can only rely on potential cascades from wolvie.

Unknown

Slow, but both have true healing...that's pretty big to me...can save health packs for an AP generator.

Though that would beg the question, what takes priority...black for SS or Red for 4P? SS can lead to cascades...maybe, but you need the red for the true heal, and unlike XF yellow, it isn't a low enough value that it will just 'pop up'.
- Unreall

Unknown

I'm pretty sure XDP purple + WXF black have the priority here. With a threat down you can breath and get the red/whatever, unless you started the fight to heal him up (which could be done on prologue).

It's kinda counter productive get 13 red off the bat and don't even have that much health to recover and the hit will not down most targets.

eidehua

You can compare deadpool level 5 heal to a level 3 xforce heal if it goes off, is that enough of a heal so you won't use a health pack? For x-force that is about half his health, for deadpool the heal % is less. I think it may be enough, but deadpool won't come back from super low health to fighting form for the next fight. Though he can be healed kinda fast in prologue with a red generator

MarcusGraves

eidehua wrote:

You can compare deadpool level 5 heal to a level 3 xforce heal if it goes off, is that enough of a heal so you won't use a health pack? For x-force that is about half his health, for deadpool the heal % is less. I think it may be enough, but deadpool won't come back from super low health to fighting form for the next fight. Though he can be healed kinda fast in prologue with a red generator

if you want some perspective DP's red heal at max is 32.7% of his total health of 13,934 and rank 3 recovery for XFW is 38.6% of his total health of 10,960 but the only reason that seems higher for XFW is because of his smaller health pool where as DP has 2,974 more HP than XFW.

just straight numbers wise, DP's heal is only 326 HPs stronger than rank 3 recovery which is the only rank I care about because 3/5/5 XFW's make me sad face...

eidehua

MarcusGraves wrote:

eidehua wrote:

You can compare deadpool level 5 heal to a level 3 xforce heal if it goes off, is that enough of a heal so you won't use a health pack? For x-force that is about half his health, for deadpool the heal % is less. I think it may be enough, but deadpool won't come back from super low health to fighting form for the next fight. Though he can be healed kinda fast in prologue with a red generator

if you want some perspective DP's red heal at max is 32.7% of his total health of 13,934 and rank 3 recovery for XFW is 38.6% of his total health of 10,960 but the only reason that seems higher for XFW is because of his smaller health pool where as DP has 2,974 more HP than XFW.

just straight numbers wise, DP's heal is only 326 HPs stronger than rank 3 recovery which is the only rank I care about because 3/5/5 XFW's make me sad face...

Ah my bad, it seems the health scaling is a bit more than the ability scaling, my 215 wolvie has 8779 health and level 3 recovery heals for 4016, so 4016/8779 = 45.7%

eidehua

I'm really thinking about 5/4/4 or 5/5/3, playing around with the 2/1/1 I have in juggs heroic. The damage difference is just too small on average from 4 to 5 purple, you have to run him with xf wolvie to guarantee all tiles work out.
Let's be generous with board shakers/tile destroyers that are not xfw and say you average 5 tiles destroyed that is a 191*5 = 955 damage difference, vs the 649 difference for 3->4 black (one) activation.

Now to compare 3->4 purple to 4->5 black.
445 tile damage difference for purple in this case, so if you always pair deadpool with good board shakers that can average 5 tiles destroyed, that is 2225 damage difference. 4->5 black is 1297 damage difference. So if you were to allocate the 4th purple cover to 5 black, you'd probably want black to activate at least 2 times or 3 (to really benefit), every time you would launch a purple. And you have to weigh the slight benefit that purple damage is more granular so you can split the damage to another character.

As for red, sure it may not be used every match but it allows you to sustain forever with prologue healing. Without 5 red that process would be pretty slow. I'm not sure how much of a need this is however with the 10 healthpacks. Maybe if red is just not useful enough I'd just spec towards black and purple. This is something I can't really say for sure without more experience with 5 and 3 red deadpool in my roster so I can see if it would be useful for healthpack saving.

I really want to max him but I am not sure what to build

Phaserhawk

eidehua wrote:

I'm really thinking about 5/4/4 or 5/5/3, playing around with the 2/1/1 I have in juggs heroic. The damage difference is just too small on average from 4 to 5 purple, you have to run him with xf wolvie to guarantee all tiles work out.
Let's be generous with board shakers/tile destroyers that are not xfw and say you average 5 tiles destroyed that is a 191*5 = 955 damage difference, vs the 649 difference for 3->4 black (one) activation.

Now to compare 3->4 purple to 4->5 black.
445 tile damage difference for purple in this case, so if you always pair deadpool with good board shakers that can average 5 tiles destroyed, that is 2225 damage difference. 4->5 black is 1297 damage difference. So if you were to allocate the 4th purple cover to 5 black, you'd probably want black to activate at least 2 times or 3 (to really benefit), every time you would launch a purple. And you have to weigh the slight benefit that purple damage is more granular so you can split the damage to another character.

As for red, sure it may not be used every match but it allows you to sustain forever with prologue healing. Without 5 red that process would be pretty slow. I'm not sure how much of a need this is however with the 10 healthpacks. Maybe if red is just not useful enough I'd just spec towards black and purple. This is something I can't really say for sure without more experience with 5 and 3 red deadpool in my roster so I can see if it would be useful for healthpack saving.

I really want to max him but I am not sure what to build

I'm with you, but another reason to go 5 purple is that even if you don't activate all the tiles and they count down, they still have the potential to generate AP as the cascade comes. There is just no downside to purple

scottee

I'm not sure why anyone is thinking anything but 5/3/5. Black is a deterrent. On offense, how often are you going to get your other two smacked around so you can return 2k more damage? On defense, people are going to play around his black and never set it off.

That fact that black will only go off at most once or twice a match, and that you're not relying on it for damage, puts me squarely in the 5/3/5 camp.

eidehua

scottee wrote:

I'm not sure why anyone is thinking anything but 5/3/5. Black is a deterrent. On offense, how often are you going to get your other two smacked around so you can return 2k more damage? On defense, people are going to play around his black and never set it off.

That fact that black will only go off at most once or twice a match, and that you're not relying on it for damage, puts me squarely in the 5/3/5 camp.

I suck at this game so definitely a few blacks would go off per tough match, and I also suck enough that I may not be able to collect 13 red in a match without bring cyclops along.

I do think that 5 black 3.5k damage is nothing to scott at.

Black i think is nice in that it is a skill that it can turn a match you are behind in for free. Maybe not amazing against the current pvp hulkbuster/iron fist combo, but definitely good against AOE and pve nodes where less powerful skills are more often used. I think most of my losses vs AI is when they get way ahead of me in AP, vie a lucky string of match 4/ match 5 and cascades. You can't turn that around with your actives since you have no AP. Only loki/jean grey/deadpool can counter.

I do think you either do 5 red or 5 black. Either you want your allies to tank abilities and so your black works, or you tank it and heal it back up.

simonsez

scottee wrote:

On offense, how often are you going to get your other two smacked around so you can return 2k more damage?

As soon as Daken, Ares or Juggs make two matches.

simonsez

scottee wrote:

That fact that black will only go off at most once or twice a match, and that you're not relying on it for damage, puts me squarely in the 5/3/5 camp.

If it goes off twice (or once on on AOE attack), the extra damage of black5 vs 3 is pretty much the same as what you'd lose by going from red5 to 3 (assuming you're not getting red off more than once in a match); and you didn't have to spend any AP to do it, which means you can spend the red AP on something that'll do even more damage.

morph3us

If you're planning on pairing him with Thing, I'd also say go 3/5/5. Any ability attacks on a Thing/XPool team will have to be on Thing as a necessity, which will activate X-Enforcer. Thing's Red at 5 covers is still a reasonable attack at 10AP, which reduces the need for 5 covers in Out of Bullets. Five covers in Countdown to What will help spread out the countdown tiles across the board, increasing the likelihood that a Yancy Street Special will destroy some of them.

eidehua

simonsez wrote:

scottee wrote:

That fact that black will only go off at most once or twice a match, and that you're not relying on it for damage, puts me squarely in the 5/3/5 camp.

If it goes off twice (or once on on AOE attack), the extra damage of black5 vs 3 is pretty much the same as what you'd lose by going from red5 to 3 (assuming you're not getting red off more than once in a match); and you didn't have to spend any AP to do it, which means you can spend the red AP on something that'll do even more damage.

Hmm so what do you think of black 3->5 vs purple 3->5? What would you consider the average case of tile loss, and then wouldn't a similar analysis work for black?
Then we have 5 black, so now what about 5 red 3 purple, 3 red 5 purple, or 4 red 4 purple? The 5th upgrade of purple on average isn't that stellar, so perhaps the 3->4 red would be more worth it? So 4/5/4?

Actually one aspect I completely left out of my analysis is that adding more tiles for his purple increases the average amount of tiles destroyed, so is that difference in consistency big enough?