**** Deadpool (Uncanny X-Force) ****

notamutant

Phaserhawk wrote:

The only issue I have with your argument is you keep talking about this spike damage, purple only spikes damage when X force Wolverine is involved when he's not purple is not that great. You currently have two choices to get purple go off kingpin and Wolverine.

As was said by simon, why would you not use Wolverine with Deadpool? Just like you wouldn't use GSWB without Prof X. They both have heals, and when boosted will live long enough to use them, so they have a chance eventually against moderately covered 5 stars. You could also use the Thing and then black would be completely useless due to protect tiles.

Phaserhawk

notamutant wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

The only issue I have with your argument is you keep talking about this spike damage, purple only spikes damage when X force Wolverine is involved when he's not purple is not that great. You currently have two choices to get purple go off kingpin and Wolverine.

As was said by simon, why would you not use Wolverine with Deadpool? Just like you wouldn't use GSWB without Prof X. They both have heals, and when boosted will live long enough to use them, so they have a chance eventually against moderately covered 5 stars. You could also use the Thing and then black would be completely useless due to protect tiles.

I guess in the end I prefer to use Deadpool with King Pin. Because King Pin is going to tank 2 out of the 3 colors of Deadpool, it makes sense to have Deadpool's black at 5. With Wolverine, you want Deadpool tanking as much as possible, so Deadpool will take 3 colors and Wolvie 2, that encourages less of a use for black.

X-Force/Deadpool combo is going to average you 15K to 17.5K depending upon how many tiles are out, but you would assume it's going to fall in the middle somewhere.

King Pin/Deadpool is going to get you 6144 in a 5/5/3 DP build up to 6780, even if you saved up to double cast black, its sill going to be short of Wolvie/Deadpool that's for sure.

But, as many would agree, X-Enforcer is going to almost always get you 2 per match. That's 2920 if you leave it at 3, that's 6812 at level 5.

All of a sudden now X-Force/DP does 19021 to a target, but KP/DP does 19100. Oh snap, they are the same now.

Now here's the real kicker. So that was a 5/3/5 DP with Wolvie vs. a 5/5/3 DP with Kingpin. They are the same roughly, argue how you want about you cant' count on black, like I said it's averages.

Now in the flip flop scenario of a 5/5/3 DP with Wolvie and a 5/3/5 DP with KP You get
DP/XF--18221 assuming 2 black activations
KP/DP--16480 assuming 2 black activations

That's why I run DP now as 5/5/3. Because in either build with 2 black activations, he will out damage a 5/3/5 with either KingPin or XF.

Now recently we have seen, Red Hulk, Jean Grey both 4* 5*, new 4* coming, Ice-Man, OML, all of these with AoE's which Deadpool loves to counter.


In the end I totally get and respect the 5/3/5, but 5/5/3 is waaaaayyy more flexible build and it's actually going out damage 5/3/5. For every time there is a better time to run 5/3/5 there is going to be one the exact opposite. But if you assume 2 things of DP, that he will get 1 red off and that black activates twice, which is a very safe average, 5/5/3 will do more damage on average than any other build. And for you 5/4/4, it's actually the worst of the top 4 builds. Again assuming 1 red, 2 black the order of most average damage are as follows in any average situation assuming all or none of your purple get exploded.
1.)5/5/3
2.)3/5/5
3.)5/3/5
4.)5/4/4 and actually 4/5/4 overtakes many times.

Final note: Aside from a 5* killer of the Wolvie/DP, it's overkill to alpha strike someone with that amount of damage most of the time. Which is another reason I prefer KingPin, since you can split it. So that's my reasoning my counter point, but I really do love these conversations, thanks for it notamutant

notamutant

Phaserhawk wrote:

notamutant wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

The only issue I have with your argument is you keep talking about this spike damage, purple only spikes damage when X force Wolverine is involved when he's not purple is not that great. You currently have two choices to get purple go off kingpin and Wolverine.

As was said by simon, why would you not use Wolverine with Deadpool? Just like you wouldn't use GSWB without Prof X. They both have heals, and when boosted will live long enough to use them, so they have a chance eventually against moderately covered 5 stars. You could also use the Thing and then black would be completely useless due to protect tiles.

I guess in the end I prefer to use Deadpool with King Pin. Because King Pin is going to tank 2 out of the 3 colors of Deadpool, it makes sense to have Deadpool's black at 5. With Wolverine, you want Deadpool tanking as much as possible, so Deadpool will take 3 colors and Wolvie 2, that encourages less of a use for black.

X-Force/Deadpool combo is going to average you 15K to 17.5K depending upon how many tiles are out, but you would assume it's going to fall in the middle somewhere.

King Pin/Deadpool is going to get you 6144 in a 5/5/3 DP build up to 6780, even if you saved up to double cast black, its sill going to be short of Wolvie/Deadpool that's for sure.

But, as many would agree, X-Enforcer is going to almost always get you 2 per match. That's 2920 if you leave it at 3, that's 6812 at level 5.

All of a sudden now X-Force/DP does 19021 to a target, but KP/DP does 19100. Oh snap, they are the same now.

Now here's the real kicker. So that was a 5/3/5 DP with Wolvie vs. a 5/5/3 DP with Kingpin. They are the same roughly, argue how you want about you cant' count on black, like I said it's averages.

Now in the flip flop scenario of a 5/5/3 DP with Wolvie and a 5/3/5 DP with KP You get
DP/XF--18221 assuming 2 black activations
KP/DP--16480 assuming 2 black activations

That's why I run DP now as 5/5/3. Because in either build with 2 black activations, he will out damage a 5/3/5 with either KingPin or XF.

Now recently we have seen, Red Hulk, Jean Grey both 4* 5*, new 4* coming, Ice-Man, OML, all of these with AoE's which Deadpool loves to counter.


In the end I totally get and respect the 5/3/5, but 5/5/3 is waaaaayyy more flexible build and it's actually going out damage 5/3/5. For every time there is a better time to run 5/3/5 there is going to be one the exact opposite. But if you assume 2 things of DP, that he will get 1 red off and that black activates twice, which is a very safe average, 5/5/3 will do more damage on average than any other build. And for you 5/4/4, it's actually the worst of the top 4 builds. Again assuming 1 red, 2 black the order of most average damage are as follows in any average situation assuming all or none of your purple get exploded.
1.)5/5/3
2.)3/5/5
3.)5/3/5
4.)5/4/4 and actually 4/5/4 overtakes many times.

Final note: Aside from a 5* killer of the Wolvie/DP, it's overkill to alpha strike someone with that amount of damage most of the time. Which is another reason I prefer KingPin, since you can split it. So that's my reasoning my counter point, but I really do love these conversations, thanks for it notamutant

Thanks for all the detailed analysis. It certainly makes it easier for me to discuss these things in my videos when I have people like you do to the math out for me! Personally, I always prefer single target spike damage versus AOE, which is pretty much what it comes down to as the main difference between the two builds. Although with SS and DP purple, you get the best of both since you don't overkill since damage can go to the next target as damage from purple tiles is dished out one at a time with SS. I like to think ahead in this game, and realize I will probably take forever to get a fully covered one either way, but if I had a choice, I would just prefer the more long term viable purple over current term viable black. I guess time will tell how 5 stars change the game. I would agree with your assessment in the current 4 star land as being more accurate though, I just like to think ahead.

simonsez

Let me throw in here that I originally was favoring a 5 black build based on my assumptions as to how often all these abilities would get triggered, but when I actually started using him and tallying, my assumptions were pretty far off. In PvP, the black wasn't triggering nearly as often as I expected it would. It averaged less than 1 per match. Have you guys done similar?

Phaserhawk

It depends on the PvP. This last one, yeah I was getting 2+ due to multiple red users and sentry's yellow. But like I said when I run with KP and he's out front more I get more black. If I run wolvie, DP is out front more and I get less

Phaserhawk

notamutant wrote:

Thanks for all the detailed analysis. It certainly makes it easier for me to discuss these things in my videos when I have people like you do to the math out for me! Personally, I always prefer single target spike damage versus AOE, which is pretty much what it comes down to as the main difference between the two builds. Although with SS and DP purple, you get the best of both since you don't overkill since damage can go to the next target as damage from purple tiles is dished out one at a time with SS. I like to think ahead in this game, and realize I will probably take forever to get a fully covered one either way, but if I had a choice, I would just prefer the more long term viable purple over current term viable black. I guess time will tell how 5 stars change the game. I would agree with your assessment in the current 4 star land as being more accurate though, I just like to think ahead.

In regards to 5 stars. IceIX said that those numbers were all correct, so if 4*'s are going to be roughl 3* in comparison, this is how I look at match damage being in the future.


I assume 4*'s match damage will be where a 5* will just barely overtake them, that means we are going to be seeing a big boost in match damage. In terms of health, 4*'s roughly have 60% more health than 3* so I'm assuming 5*'s will be roughly the same probably about 70% more health. That means A high tank 4* like Thor or IMHB which I think would be comparable to Silver Surfer will be about 31000 health points, or about a 65-70% increase which means all their skills will get boosted by that, I figure they will end up about 350 for a level, but that means old IMHB red will go from 630 per red to about 1039 and he'll have 31000 hit points. So that is what I see the future being. DP's black will go from 3406 to about 5619 and his purple will be about 2494

eidehua

simonsez wrote:

eidehua wrote:

Also keep in mind 5 star teams are doing 500*3 aka 1500+ dmg on matches of their color. DP's current threshold is 1357, not sure what it will be maxed and boosted, but basically right now you will be returning 3406 every match damage taken against a 5* (maxed, or close to maxed).

In other words, after 8 or 9 turns, your XDP is dead, and the 5* is half-dead. Doesn't sound like a winning strategy.

How is XPD dead if you are using him for his black? The other guy is taking damage. And getting that damage advantage as you are fighting a good covered 5* could be worth it.

Since the rate of 5* gain is pretty slow, it would seem reasonable to field 2 4*s and 1 5* as the 5* gets usable. And if you had a 60% or stronger 5* fighting against that other guy's 60% or better 5*, and the match damage of the 60% 5* procs XDP still (which I don't know).
As the enemy 5* is matching against your 5* the enemy 5* is taking a lot more damage right? Or you could quickly take out the other team's 4*s with XPD black.

I suppose there are some better 4* "supports" for the 5* main but there aren't many and 5 black from XPD is a very interesting kind of offensive support.

Polares

Phaserhawk wrote:

It depends on the PvP. This last one, yeah I was getting 2+ due to multiple red users and sentry's yellow. But like I said when I run with KP and he's out front more I get more black. If I run wolvie, DP is out front more and I get less

But that is because you are very bad playing

No, jokes aside, yeah in Starfall it is very easy to suffer damage, but I have been using Xpool a lot in this last PvE and most of the time I din't use black not even once. If you are a bit lucky and play well you can kill the other team fast enough using XWolvie or Kp+Xpool before needing to use black. And of course, that screws up your calculation in favor of purple builds. I think black is just useful against the tougher battles, were you know you are going to get hurt, so maybe the average is closer to 1 than to 2 ...

Now there are a lot of iceman, jg or rh in PvP were black is the best option, all agree that black is crazy good against AoE, but I think he is more useful in PvE. So maybe we can even say that 5 black is more for PvP and 3-4 for PvE.

And I can confirm 5 red is a must. In this PvE using both Xwolvie and xpool I almost didn't need to use any health pack at all. You can play with them for hours.

This is way I still think 5/4/4 is the most balanced option. Purple wins a lot from 3 to 4, and even though black is just good at 4, It is the more balanced build.

Also something you can consider, is that 5/3/5 and 5/4/4 are better in DDQ4. And yeah, we will have just one DDQ4 xpool every 3 - 4 months, but it is worth remembering.

dkffiv

I'm not sure if dp is viable in pvp unless he's paired with Thing. With Hulkbuster I found it pretty easy to 1 shot him or his partner before they could do anything. Not sure if I've ever seen the ai get off his red.

If Thing is his partner than 355 makes sense and you'll probably rather use Thing's red. PVE wise his black rarely goes off so 535 seems clear cut there.

Just got mine to 543 so I'll need to decide where I'm going to use him.

simonsez

dkffiv wrote:

If Thing is his partner than 355 makes sense and you'll probably rather use Thing's red.

Because of the stun? I think there are plenty of times you'd prefer the extra damage and/or heal from XDP. Seems like a toss-up at best. Also, unless the featured can do major damage, it's hard for those two to do enough damage fast enough to take out a good team. Thing is great as a 3rd with XDP and KP or XF, but the two of them alone feel pretty underwhelming.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

If Thing is his partner than 355 makes sense and you'll probably rather use Thing's red.

Because of the stun? I think there are plenty of times you'd prefer the extra damage and/or heal from XDP. Seems like a toss-up at best. Also, unless the featured can do major damage, it's hard for those two to do enough damage fast enough to take out a good team. Thing is great as a 3rd with XDP and KP or XF, but the two of them alone feel pretty underwhelming.

I'm with simonsez on this one. While they are an annoyance, I would lean 5/5/3 for Thing as well. Reason being, Thing can't really trigger DP's purple on a consistent enough basis to be worth using. He destroys 16/64 or 25% of the board. Assuming you are able to get all 6 tiles out, you now have 9.375% of the board covered in DP tiles. Short math you are going to blow up about 2.33333 tiles on that combo. If you aren't blowing up all the tiles in one swoop with X-Force, 5 in purple becomes less relevant. As I had shown earlier the difference in King Pin dmg from a 5 purple to a 3 purple is minimal.

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

It depends on the PvP. This last one, yeah I was getting 2+ due to multiple red users and sentry's yellow. But like I said when I run with KP and he's out front more I get more black. If I run wolvie, DP is out front more and I get less

But that is because you are very bad playing

No, jokes aside, yeah in Starfall it is very easy to suffer damage, but I have been using Xpool a lot in this last PvE and most of the time I din't use black not even once. If you are a bit lucky and play well you can kill the other team fast enough using XWolvie or Kp+Xpool before needing to use black. And of course, that screws up your calculation in favor of purple builds. I think black is just useful against the tougher battles, were you know you are going to get hurt, so maybe the average is closer to 1 than to 2 ...

Now there are a lot of iceman, jg or rh in PvP were black is the best option, all agree that black is crazy good against AoE, but I think he is more useful in PvE. So maybe we can even say that 5 black is more for PvP and 3-4 for PvE.

And I can confirm 5 red is a must. In this PvE using both Xwolvie and xpool I almost didn't need to use any health pack at all. You can play with them for hours.

This is way I still think 5/4/4 is the most balanced option. Purple wins a lot from 3 to 4, and even though black is just good at 4, It is the more balanced build.

Also something you can consider, is that 5/3/5 and 5/4/4 are better in DDQ4. And yeah, we will have just one DDQ4 xpool every 3 - 4 months, but it is worth remembering.

If you trigger black 1 or less times and that is your consistent play, then absolutely. 5/4/4 fills a small niche where DP is both tanking and hiding, like with X-Force, you could have Wolvie tank black, green, yellow and TU's, but just chase red, black, purple only throwing Wolvie out to trigger damage on black when one is coming. However, the number of times 5/4/4 does the most damage is when around 50% o the purple gets destroyed and there is 1 or less black triggers, other than that, if you are destroying 65-100% of your purple while still getting 1-0 black you are better 5/3/5, if you are triggering 64-0% of your purple and getting 1-0 black, that is where 5/4/4 does better, other wise 2 or more black triggers per match always means 5 black, always. Then it comes down to purple v red again.

I'll say it for the record.

XFW/XFD or DP daily titan fight--5/3/5 without a doubt

XFD/Thing or KP or any other board destroyer, 5/5/3 or 3/5/5 is going to be better.

Here's a choice tree for all of you, and I will stand by it.

1.) How many times does X-Enforcer trigger for you in a match?
If 0 or 1 go to #3
If 2 or more go to #2
2.) Will you run DP with only X-Force?
If yes go to #4
If no go to #5
3.) Build 5/3/5
4.) Build 3/5/5
5.) Build 5/5/3

There you go, that's how you build DP to your play style. If you fall in between one you can hybrid it. But If you play style does not allow black triggers than 5/3/5 is your style, if you do get it to trigger 2+ then you fall into, who do I play him with. If it's X-Force only, then you go 3/5/5 have Wolverine tank green, black, yellow and TU and only chase those colors plus purple. If you want to pair him with X-Force, Thing, or KP then you go 5/5/3 because only a XFW/XFD is worthy of the 5 purple, if you play DP with multiple then 5/5/3 is better.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Let me throw in here that I originally was favoring a 5 black build based on my assumptions as to how often all these abilities would get triggered, but when I actually started using him and tallying, my assumptions were pretty far off. In PvP, the black wasn't triggering nearly as often as I expected it would. It averaged less than 1 per match. Have you guys done similar?

ya, same thing I noticed. Part of that could be because my XDP is a higher level than most of my characters, so it's tanking more...

I still say 5/3/5 for him. Been using him quite a bit lately (thanks to being boosted) and I forgot how awesome he is at not requiring health packs.

Quebbster

OJSP wrote:

barrok wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Let me throw in here that I originally was favoring a 5 black build based on my assumptions as to how often all these abilities would get triggered, but when I actually started using him and tallying, my assumptions were pretty far off. In PvP, the black wasn't triggering nearly as often as I expected it would. It averaged less than 1 per match. Have you guys done similar?

ya, same thing I noticed. Part of that could be because my XDP is a higher level than most of my characters, so it's tanking more...

I still say 5/3/5 for him. Been using him quite a bit lately (thanks to being boosted) and I forgot how awesome he is at not requiring health packs.

Whoever first mentioned in this forum to put Daken with the 2 X-Forces, thank you!
I got him 5/5/2 at the moment, level 200. Those 3 are very efficient together, I started using them in the 1st run of Venom Bomb in the Trivial nodes and the symbiote only harder nodes.

During Fatal Attraction, they're a nice team for climbing, if any of them get injured or downed (Usually Daken), we could simply wait for them to revive and/or just simply prologue heal.. With Wolverine (X-Force) and Daken boosted, it's quite easy to get X-Enforcer to go off when the opponent's Daken hits us with Chemical Reaction.

I like Grocket as a standin for Daken when Daken is locked out of difficult PvE nodes. Either way, Three true healers is awesome.

TheHueyFreeman

So anyone have tips for boosted XFDP? In the Valentine's PvP, I'm running him with XFW and Thing. I'm really torn between 5/4/4 and 4/5/4.

simonsez

TheHueyFreeman wrote:

So anyone have tips for boosted XFDP? In the Valentine's PvP, I'm running him with XFW and Thing. I'm really torn between 5/4/4 and 4/5/4.

If using with Thing, I'd go 355 and use Thing's red, especially if going against a team with AOE attacks.

sambrookjm

Anyone else notice this in today's Big Enchilada, when Deadpool was in the final wave?

I knocked out the final enemy in Wave 3 with 3-Cap's Star Spangled Avenger for over 4K damage. Deadpool and two Maggia guys come out for Wave 4. Deadpool immediately puts down one of his Black countdown tiles, even though he just showed up. It looks like his passive triggered because the person that died to end the previous wave took enough damage to trigger it.

It didn't matter, since I had enough green to do an Embiggened Bash x2 and take everyone out, but I thought that was a little weird. Is this a bug?

Jaedenkaal

sambrookjm wrote:

Anyone else notice this in today's Big Enchilada, when Deadpool was in the final wave?

I knocked out the final enemy in Wave 3 with 3-Cap's Star Spangled Avenger for over 4K damage. Deadpool and two Maggia guys come out for Wave 4. Deadpool immediately puts down one of his Black countdown tiles, even though he just showed up. It looks like his passive triggered because the person that died to end the previous wave took enough damage to trigger it.

It didn't matter, since I had enough green to do an Embiggened Bash x2 and take everyone out, but I thought that was a little weird. Is this a bug?

Long-standing bug with wave missions. You'll also see it happen with Captain Marvel.

Anon

In SIM, Xpool is very useful alongside Carol and Grocket. Especially against other Grocket teams. Any bit of damage, and Xpool slaps them back with Carol buffing those strikes. It can very quickly be passive death.

VizMantis

mexus said:

A few 100 more ISO and this will be my new champ. Any good use expect for countering Groot teams?

It’s certainly mentioned previously in this thread, but since no one has mentioned it in reply to this question, I’ll reiterate that he makes a pretty good team with xfw.  The xfdp purple + xfw black does some nice damage that’ll potentially wipe 2 characters off the board when fired in succession.  They also both have mediocre true heal, which can save you health packs.  They’re a pretty standard pve team for me when one of them is boosted.