**** Jean Grey (All New X-Men) ****

atomzed

MarcusGraves wrote:

Like I said, I get that she's a 4* but isn't this a bit much?

I think she's ok for a 4*. She has 1 great ability (purple), 1 decent passive, and a so-so green.

It is true that her purple deals 4k AOE dmg, but at the 4* level, her AOE will at most take out 1/4 of the 4* health.

You are seeing her a lot now partly because she's boosted. Once she's not boosted , you are less likely to see her being used.

She is a good balanced character. No nerf required.

Unknown

MarcusGraves wrote:

Sorry if I happen to cringe at almost 4k team damage for only 10 cost that ends up doing a total of 11664 total damage, its more akin to a cheaper RoTP with little more damage and no drawback to it and actually removes special tile advantage on the board.

Like I said, I get that she's a 4* but isn't this a bit much?

apology accepted, and no it's not.

Polares

atomzed wrote:

MarcusGraves wrote:

Like I said, I get that she's a 4* but isn't this a bit much?

I think she's ok for a 4*. She has 1 great ability (purple), 1 decent passive, and a so-so green.

It is true that her purple deals 4k AOE dmg, but at the 4* level, her AOE will at most take out 1/4 of the 4* health.

You are seeing her a lot now partly because she's boosted. Once she's not boosted , you are less likely to see her being used.

She is a good balanced character. No nerf required.

I agree completely with you. On paper she seems at the same level of IMHB or ProfX, but after playing with her for a while I see now that she is a step below, or maybe even two steps below.

The thing is, she is not so powerful on her own. She cant win a match herself (opposed to other 4 like IMHB, Carnage, Kingpin, etc). I will give you an example, I was using her today with IMHB and a 1/1/1 capFalcon, and I was playing against Xforce, Daken both super buffed. I had bad luck and some cascades (never match5) with a lot of daken strikes in the field have killed my IMHB. After that I have tried to kill them using purple and green (I have to say this one is not maxed) but I couldnt and they have ended up killing me. And it has happened to me twice(yeah I know, I should pay more attention to buffed Daken strike tiles), and once IMHB is dead is really hard to win a match just with her. Her attacks are very good, but it is very difficult to kill someone just with them. When someone has 15000 hitpoints or regen, 4000 is not that much.

If she had an ability that would give her green or purple that would be different, but as she is now, she is very good, but not as good as I thought she was (but I still like her passive a lot).

Azoic

Really? Can't kill someone on her own? Lol! Get 5 purple and 5 green covers and see how that goes. Even boosted to 315, she does 5600 purple and 4k green, which then produces all those tiles. I have had attack tiles procing for 1k on their own. Add in any HB strike tiles and it goes really nuts. Yes, trading match dmg against a true healer will not let you win. Firing off your abilities one at a time might not let you win. But like any other character, you have to save up ap and nuke a true healer. Fire off green then purple and boosted Patch and Laken both die.

Unknown

Azoic wrote:

Really? Can't kill someone on her own? Lol! Get 5 purple and 5 green covers and see how that goes. Even boosted to 315, she does 5600 purple and 4k green, which then produces all those tiles. I have had attack tiles procing for 1k on their own. Add in any HB strike tiles and it goes really nuts. Yes, trading match dmg against a true healer will not let you win. Firing off your abilities one at a time might not let you win. But like any other character, you have to save up ap and nuke a true healer. Fire off green then purple and boosted Patch and Laken both die.

to be fair, I think the person means she'll have a hard time grabbing (20-22) AP and landing her stuff, which is a completely legitimate point. Getting more than 3 natural matches makes a match go on fairly long.

atomzed

Azoic wrote:

Fire off green then purple and boosted Patch and Laken both die.

You just compared a 4* with a 3*. And both patch and Daken has relatively lower health.

At level 270, she deals 3888 with 10 purple. And she deals 3385 with 12 green. That's 22 ap. That's a lot of ap. And even with that amount of ap, she cannot kill any single 4*, who has around 15k health.

Compared with Imhb, with 9 red ap + 11 black ap, he can deal 12k dmg to a single individual. With that 700 strike tiles out, he will be able to down one 4* quickly. And add in the fact that imhb is able to accelerate himself, and JG can't, means that JG is relatively lower tier than IMHB. (Assumption made here is that it is more impt to kill off a character than to dmg them, since when you take out 1 char, you can take out up to 3active colors)

Some may argue that I shouldn't compare JG with imhb, who is top tier. That is true. I am comparing imhb, whom I think is quite a character that don't deserve to be nerf. So if IMHB don't need to be nerf, why should JG, who is lower tier than IMHB, be nerf?

In fact, I feel that the value of JG purple is actually the ability to remove enemy special tile. That helps a lot in dealing with CD tiles

Polares

raisinbman wrote:

Azoic wrote:

Really? Can't kill someone on her own? Lol! Get 5 purple and 5 green covers and see how that goes. Even boosted to 315, she does 5600 purple and 4k green, which then produces all those tiles. I have had attack tiles procing for 1k on their own. Add in any HB strike tiles and it goes really nuts. Yes, trading match dmg against a true healer will not let you win. Firing off your abilities one at a time might not let you win. But like any other character, you have to save up ap and nuke a true healer. Fire off green then purple and boosted Patch and Laken both die.

to be fair, I think the person means she'll have a hard time grabbing (20-22) AP and landing her stuff, which is a completely legitimate point. Getting more than 3 natural matches makes a match go on fairly long.

Yeah that.

22AP gets you 8000 hitpoints, how is that supposed to kill IMHB? Kingping? Carnage? 4hor? Even another Jean grey. Yeah it can kill unbuffed Patch and Daken, IF you fire them both together. But do you see many unbuffed Dakens and Patches in PVP, because I dont...

Then you need 32 AP to kill someone (yeah probably all 3), but that is A LOT, you can dead by then...

And I dont think is fair talking when she is buffed to 315. All chars are better when buffed.

I am not saying she is not good, she definitely is, just saying that it is better to have one AoE and one good damage for one char or an AP creation ability that makes easier firing the first AoE ability (like 3 thor or KK) than just two AoE abilities. And that is what helps also make her balanced.

PS: And this is why I think in the long run Kingpin could be a better char than she is, and why IMHB and ProfX are better than she is.

dkffiv

Polares wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

Azoic wrote:

Really? Can't kill someone on her own? Lol! Get 5 purple and 5 green covers and see how that goes. Even boosted to 315, she does 5600 purple and 4k green, which then produces all those tiles. I have had attack tiles procing for 1k on their own. Add in any HB strike tiles and it goes really nuts. Yes, trading match dmg against a true healer will not let you win. Firing off your abilities one at a time might not let you win. But like any other character, you have to save up ap and nuke a true healer. Fire off green then purple and boosted Patch and Laken both die.

to be fair, I think the person means she'll have a hard time grabbing (20-22) AP and landing her stuff, which is a completely legitimate point. Getting more than 3 natural matches makes a match go on fairly long.

Yeah that.

22AP gets you 8000 hitpoints, how is that supposed to kill IMHB? Kingping? Carnage? 4hor? Even another Jean grey. Yeah it can kill unbuffed Patch and Daken, IF you fire them both together. But do you see many unbuffed Dakens and Patches in PVP, because I dont...

Then you need 32 AP to kill someone (yeah probably all 3), but that is A LOT, you can dead by then...

And I dont think is fair talking when she is buffed to 315. All chars are better when buffed.

I am not saying she is not good, she definitely is, just saying that it is better to have one AoE and one good damage for one char or an AP creation ability that makes easier firing the first AoE ability (like 3 thor or KK) than just two AoE abilities. And that is what helps also make her balanced.

PS: And this is why I think in the long run Kingpin could be a better char than she is, and why IMHB and ProfX are better than she is.

On defense and by themselves, JG is probably a bigger threat than HB. AoE damage is much worse than single target because there's a high chance you will need to use 3 kits instead of 1 if something goes off. My threshold for damage is around 50% before I use a kit while climbing so 4k damage brings characters dangerously low in those situations. Not being able to make 5 matches also slows the match down (especially for Fistbuster - I only use Fist purple if I'm desperate if JG is still alive), though I think an unbuffed IF has a bigger chance of causing a wipe than a maxed out JG. Fistbuster vs. JGbuster is a race between me gathering red or black and letting the AI get their share of purple/green.

I usually only buy 1 or 2 covers to finish off a 4* so I'm still about 3 covers away from having a maxed one. I'd have to check their speeds but I think I would probably use JG Buster for climbing and IF Buster for hops (if there isn't a better combo from the buffed characters list).

Vhailorx

I think this is a good discussion of her place in the meta. She is perhaps the best defensive 4* in the game because her passive neutralizes tile-spawning powers and punishes match 5s. Since these Are the most powerful offensive tools (they accelerate abilities more than almost anything else). Her aoe damage also makes her a real risk for multiple health pack use, which is another useful deterrent.

But she has some limitations that keep her mostly balanced. As dkffiv notes, she is less likely to actually win any defensive matchups than someone like imhb, who does huge single target damage and self-accelerates.

All of which is to say that her best use is as a pvp deterrent. On offense she is somewhat slow on her own (2x 4-match powers), and takes a lot of AP to drop any one target.

Sadly, deterrence just doesn't work very often above 900 in pvp because high value targets are so rare that they are worth significant risk.

Despite all the changes to the game in he past 6 months, offense still rules in this game. Characters that have their greatest value on defense just aren't as valuable as those that excel offensively.

atomzed

dkffiv wrote:

On defense and by themselves, JG is probably a bigger threat than HB. AoE damage is much worse than single target because there's a high chance you will need to use 3 kits instead of 1 if something goes off.

This I agree. JG is a much more irritating character on defence than on offence, which is somewhat an abnormality in MPQ. Her AOE dmg can't kill ppl... But it causes a lot more health pack usage.

But does that mean JG requires a nerf? I really don't think so. She is balanced.

I usually only buy 1 or 2 covers to finish off a 4* so I'm still about 3 covers away from having a maxed one. I'd have to check their speeds but I think I would probably use JG Buster for climbing and IF Buster for hops (if there isn't a better combo from the buffed characters list).

I am in a similar situation too. Currently at 9 covers, so I am wondering whether I should buy 1 or 2 covers for her. I probably just keep her as it is, and try to complete her after the next round of her rewards.

Vhailorx

Now seems like a poor time to buy any 4* covers. Wait for r83. The devs have said that they are going to increase 4* availability. Why spend now when things are about to change ( potentially in a significant way)?

atomzed

Vhailorx wrote:

Now seems like a poor time to buy any 4* covers. Wait for r83. The devs have said that they are going to increase 4* availability. Why spend now when things are about to change ( potentially in a significant way)?

Indeed. Wise counsel.

Unknown

Vhailorx wrote:

Now seems like a poor time to buy any 4* covers. Wait for r83. The devs have said that they are going to increase 4* availability. Why spend now when things are about to change ( potentially in a significant way)?

good thing I spent 58 taco tokens earlier this week T-T

turul

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

Vhailorx

turul wrote:

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

If this is a change, maybe they noticed it when testing the gauntlet (where I expect to see another brutal ultron node).

Unknown

turul wrote:

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

What do you mean by 'future' tiles?

Unknown

barrok wrote:

turul wrote:

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

What do you mean by 'future' tiles?

he can't give spoilers anymore, so who knows

Unknown

turul wrote:

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

Does this mean her 4th cover is now pointless? As it was the one that upgraded from Strike/Protect/Attack to all Special tiles.

Unknown

Haetron wrote:

turul wrote:

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

Does this mean her 4th cover is now pointless? As it was the one that upgraded from Strike/Protect/Attack to all Special tiles.

No, it can do countdown tiles. That's huge versus goons

dkffiv

Haetron wrote:

turul wrote:

Just a heads up that Jean's purple got "stealth nerfed" (or i was simply faster than announcement), and is now unable to remove Ultron bomb's or any other future tiles.

Does this mean her 4th cover is now pointless? As it was the one that upgraded from Strike/Protect/Attack to all Special tiles.

CD tiles and I believe invisible + web tiles.