Coming Soon: Character Updates!

Malcrof

Xforce's black can still down just about any character in 1 hit.. Do you know how terrifying it will be to try and save 14 green AP for 3thor knowing 1 shot from a 5 black covered Xforce will do over 8k damage? Or if you have 15+ team up tiles... waiting for the right moment... it could down hulk in 1 shot in the right situation... yah the green is a mess, but i think they may have made up for it.


Mind you, this is coming from someone who only has a single cover for him, and has never once used him for anything.. so, outside looking in.


I don't think people should quit over it, but i'm sure it will change some team ups, and most likely go through another change soon.

metallion

look on the bright side people, there's a chance we might never need to face a 270 xf in pvp ever again

but seriously, D3, what's your definition of a 4 star character ? right now the impression you're giving is that 4*s are merely trophies, never to be used. so what is the purpose of releasing 4*s when they're so much worse than 3*s? seriously, a level 270 character dealing 1.3k skill damage is absolutely horrendous . yes the black power received a damage boost, but it's way too variable to be useful on a consistent basis. the only saving grace now is that 3/5/5 actually look viable, i currently have 4 in yellow and love the heal, and was dreading the day when i needed to bring it down to 3.

and the health boost, oh gawd. hulk pvps are the worst i've ever done, and every single pvp going forward is going to be something like that? characters who were glass cannons now look like they're wearing bulletproof vests, and that's not fun when people are pushing for the progression and placement rewards on pvp. and woo, let's not forget about facing a buffed 3* mag with improved health in business partners. so much fun. im going to cry

Unknown

Love these changes. Long term this game is going to be better because more characters are going to be useful in between the x-force nerf, bad character buffs, and the health boosts.

This is definitely Demiurge ripping the band-aid off fast to get needed changes in and deal with the backlash at once. It is going to sting for a while and a lot of people will leave, but they were going to leave anyways after they got tired of the string of new characters that wouldn't displace x-force anyways.

Devs have guts and I applaud them for it.

orionpeace

Phantron wrote:

taloncarde wrote:

Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.

I don't know if they updated the OP or not, but it now clearly states for Surgical Strike that it does NOT generate AP.

mouser

scottee wrote:

The very loud vocal minority is the most affected by this. And those are the top 5% with maxed X-Forces. (me included)

What no one is saying is that by bringing down X-Force, every person in 3* land just got a giant boost.

It's clear they want 4*s to be better than 3*s, but only by a little. If the jump in power from 2* to 3* is like 60%, it looks like they want the jump from 3* to 4* to only be like 20%.

I think this makes it obvious they want 3* to be the main class, and to play in 4* land you have to pay a huge premium to have a slight advantage. I'm ok with this design choice. The main problem is that everyone got used to a couple of 4*s being 80% better than everyone else. And people don't deal with change well.

I don't think it's solely the folks that have maxed XForces that are unhappy.

I know a considerable number of 3* players and 2*->3* transitioners that have been working six+ months towards a long term goal of accumulating enough XForce covers to play him. It looks like that golden ring may have been snatched away from them now.

Arondite

On average between cascades and average damage across 15 destroyed tiles, Surgical Strike > X-Force deals on average 9.51 less damage (assuming all colors are equally distributed and the board isn't weak on Green) than before.

The combo no longer sucks 10 AP out of the enemy's pool.

The problem isn't just that the combo's effectivity was reduced, either. The problem is that X Force's defining feature - speed killing the first opponent - is absolutely gone. Welcome to Marvel Hood Quest - Loki's Reign.

jackstar0

This thread delivers.

Unknown

orionpeace wrote:

Phantron wrote:

taloncarde wrote:

Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.

I don't know if they updated the OP or not, but it now clearly states for Surgical Strike that it does NOT generate AP.

Yep, looks like the OP was updated, it originally didn't specify. Thanks!

TheVulture

Phantron wrote:

taloncarde wrote:

Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.

I certainly am intrigued on this point; I'm a 3* player at heart, and while riding the X-Force crazy train has been fun I'm very tempted to take the enhanced selling price if he is purely a damage dealer going forward - he definitely will be an excellent damage dealer, but it's not worth the scaling/matchmaking hit of having a near-max 4* on my roster when 3* damage dealers abound.

I'd have to say - despite not gaining any health while so many others will be - The Hood is probably the winner from this round of updates.

Not sure about 3* Daken though, who I'm just about to finish levelling - his 6.8k definitely puts him on the squishy end of the spectrum now...

Overall excited for broader viable rosters + signs of taking the relationship between health & power level more seriously.

--

Update: Thanks, taloncarde - that answers that question!
That's some big damage potential, but realistically a bit under what the likes of Black Panther can do in total if hitting 3 targets - a dilemma to mull over for the next week...
(If only could de-level to 166!)

woopie

orionpeace wrote:

Phantron wrote:

taloncarde wrote:

Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.

I don't know if they updated the OP or not, but it now clearly states for Surgical Strike that it does NOT generate AP.

They updated the OP. Makes more sense than addressing it midthread where no one will find it

Unknown

woopie wrote:

orionpeace wrote:

Phantron wrote:

taloncarde wrote:

Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.

I don't know if they updated the OP or not, but it now clearly states for Surgical Strike that it does NOT generate AP.

They updated the OP. Makes more sense than addressing it midthread where no one will find it

Should have done both, honestly. After I'm already reading a thread, why would I go back to page 1 without a hint?

scottee

I'm not sure why everyone doesn't understand how to use Elektra. No, purple doesn't create any strike tiles if there are none. That's why you run it back to back. And for 14 AP, you have 750 in strike tiles. It's like saying Luke Cage's black sucks because it barely does any damage.

Thinking about whether to level Elektra or IW next.

scottee

mouser wrote:

scottee wrote:

The very loud vocal minority is the most affected by this. And those are the top 5% with maxed X-Forces. (me included)

What no one is saying is that by bringing down X-Force, every person in 3* land just got a giant boost.

It's clear they want 4*s to be better than 3*s, but only by a little. If the jump in power from 2* to 3* is like 60%, it looks like they want the jump from 3* to 4* to only be like 20%.

I think this makes it obvious they want 3* to be the main class, and to play in 4* land you have to pay a huge premium to have a slight advantage. I'm ok with this design choice. The main problem is that everyone got used to a couple of 4*s being 80% better than everyone else. And people don't deal with change well.

I don't think it's solely the folks that have maxed XForces that are unhappy.

I know a considerable number of 3* players and 2*->3* transitioners that have been working six+ months towards a long term goal of accumulating enough XForce covers to play him. It looks like that golden ring may have been snatched away from them now.

My brother's one of them. But I think this makes it clearer to people that they should focus on the 3* tier before moving on to 4*. Too many people were trying to skip 3* land by going to straight to X-Force.

Pentagoon

I've never seen this community forum response actually lead to a change in design of the game once upcoming changes are announced. They're an Agile development house - they've already built, tested, and are readying for production roll-out of the code by the time we see this info. Let's assume they're on 2 week sprints, it would take at minimum that long to get another build with changes into the pipeline, even in an emergency situation. Most of us should just save our breath and adjust or quit. This is going to happen - deal with it.

I'm a day 500+ player and I've been through this before - end of the damn world.... whatever.... I'm not spending another dime on the game, for sure - this stuff happens way too often to make actual $ investments anymore. One guy in our alliance has spent upwards of $5000 since last fall on the game - he's not a happy camper either. The time investment of building ISO and spending on a character is what hurts the most, especially for players in the 4* transition phase when something like this comes about. When it takes 2+ months to level a 4* to a competitive state, the pain is real and pushes people away. But is this about your "feelings"? Hah.... nope...

RANT: My biggest beef is the whole nerf mentality vs. upping the arms race. XForce in this particular example is not that hard to take down, but you NEED another XForce to do so (or pre-nerf 4hor). If a toon is OP, create a toon that specifically combats it - like give a buff of +50% damage against XForce to another character - play out actual comic rivalries in some fashion and watch the ebb and flow of epic power struggles in the metagame unfold. Rather than forcing a lower, middle, common ground for all players, let those of us that actually invest in characters adapt to the landscape with what we have in our rosters. PLEASE ADD more, stronger, diverse weapons across the board to combat those that have "risen to power". Imagine if instead of the XF nerf they gave a 2* or 3* toon the ability to quickly dispatch him as an "overpowered" 4* and man, that's gonna be fun to play long term.
END RANT

Unknown

I have to wonder where these numbers come from? Do you have a dart board that you shoot at to determine where damage numbers should be? It sure seems that way and I can't for the life of me understand why. It's like a bungie cord watching these changes take effect, particularly on the 4* level. Can you give us numbers on how often 4* Thor is used after her nerf vs. before? I can't remember the last time I saw her in PVP play and I have to wonder, along with others, what the intent of having a fourth tier in the game is now since the power level is so close to the third tier now.

There's a model called iterative and incremental processing that seems like it would work better than just randomly changing numbers and hoping that they land where you need them to be. I'm hoping you might adopt it at some point, though, you'll have to forgive my cynicism at this point that anything we say here will have any impact on your decisions.

scottee

Arondite wrote:

On average between cascades and average damage across 15 destroyed tiles, Surgical Strike > X-Force deals on average 9.51 less damage (assuming all colors are equally distributed and the board isn't weak on Green) than before.

The combo no longer sucks 10 AP out of the enemy's pool.

The problem isn't just that the combo's effectivity was reduced, either. The problem is that X Force's defining feature - speed killing the first opponent - is absolutely gone. Welcome to Marvel Hood Quest - Loki's Reign.

Yeah, this is a giant boost to Hood/Loki. The main use of X-Force green was clearing out the support on turn 3. Can't do that anymore. Plus a lot of midrange utility heros just got health boosts.

Honestly, it's going to be a much more diverse game. Lots of interesting heroes will get used now. Thor is still the top 3*, but lots more are getting closer with the health boosts. In addition to Loki/Hood moving even higher, I could see buffed health Cyclops moving into that territory. I'm even excited to dust off the new Punisher.

Patch/Hulk still looks the fastest, but there are many more viable characters for sustained pushes now.

Unknown

Can you people AT LEAST release some new 4 stars that aren't support characters if you're going to keep **** with the only good straight up combat ones all the time so we at least have some alternative options??

rixmith

Man am I glad to see IW finally get some love! Looking forward to trying her and the other buffed characters out.

As to X-Force, I'll withhold judgement until I try him out (mine is 5/5/2 @ 166 so he is an important part of my roster but doesn't dominate my play). His black is still a top tier power and his yellow is more viable now. I think the main thing is that now he'll be a lot less of a scarecrow in PvP since you'll be able to focus on just denying Black instead of having both Black and Green being devastating.

Since I'm more of a collector I'd rather have lots of characters that are fun to play and of roughly equal power rather than a couple of dominant characters. Plus I think that 4's should be a little more powerful than 3"s, but shouldn't dominate as much as they have been. So on the whole I think the changes will be positive.

And, yes, I've spent 2500 HP on an X-Force cover too. And I've gotten to take advantage of that for a couple of months, so I'm not upset over the expenditure.

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

Xforce's black can still down just about any character in 1 hit.. Do you know how terrifying it will be to try and save 14 green AP for 3thor knowing 1 shot from a 5 black covered Xforce will do over 8k damage? Or if you have 15+ team up tiles... waiting for the right moment... it could down hulk in 1 shot in the right situation... yah the green is a mess, but i think they may have made up for it.


Mind you, this is coming from someone who only has a single cover for him, and has never once used him for anything.. so, outside looking in.


I don't think people should quit over it, but i'm sure it will change some team ups, and most likely go through another change soon.

It does not use the stockpile of your opponent. It uses the tiles on the board.

SodaPopinski

MAKE XF GREEN 5 and this could still be acceptable...a la 2* Feral Claws.