Coming Soon: Character Updates!

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  • udonomefoo
    udonomefoo Posts: 1,630 Chairperson of the Boards
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    woopie wrote:
    Merged the two threads, fixed the first post to have the nicer formatting, and deleted the later, nicer formatted post. Continue your angry mob. Pitchforks on the right, torches on the left.

    Where do I go if I lit my pitchfork on fire?

    Anywhere you want. Trust me, no one is going to say anything to stop you.
  • Ebolamonkey84
    Ebolamonkey84 Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.
  • turul wrote:
    Overall thought:

    XF: Doesn't look that bad, except green dmg, but it was unwise descision to release this era of PVP-MMR and related adjustments/tests are going. Also, worst possible time based on morale.

    Speaking specifically to the damage of green, I don't have X-Force at max level, and I was averaging around 4k-5K damage with his green power alone when you take into account tile destruction/cascades. So while going from 3k base to 1k base seems drastic, the reality is he is doing far more than that on average.

    (For the record, my green base damage is only 2702 at lvl 140)
  • bknfoodie
    bknfoodie Posts: 53
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    If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.


    Stop trying to bargain and pick up your pitchfork.
  • Vankysher
    Vankysher Posts: 324 Mover and Shaker
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    If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.
    Scaling? What scaling?
    Didn't they disprove that a while back with that maxed roster which never played a single node?
    icon_twisted.gif
  • The XF nerf is bad, no question, but what concerns me the most is that you guys think the changes to She-Hulk, Beast, and Doc Ock make them playable. Even post change they are all still terrible.

    Ain't nobody going to use green on AP destruction as it's only use. There was seriously no room in an ability called "Furious Charge" for a little damage? And Settlement is OK-ish now but no CD removal? So She Hulk goes from situationally useful in PvE to marginally less stiuationally useful in PvE.

    The Beast changes are ok-ish, but they don't actually improve the character that much. Healing powers are still junk (and all got downgraded via the increased health bars btw), Blue being more like Groot is good, but that won't make space for a healer in the meta.

    Doc Ock.. just... no. Still no. He can't destroy CD's with blue anymore (presumably since no one plays Sentry anymore?) limiting his pool of target tiles even further, and it's still too expensive for what is basically a worse version of Illusions. So he can get 50% of the board now, exactly how many special tile users can put up enough, while not killing you in the process, to make this power viable? Why not just have it destroy up to 8 special tiles for damage, why all this swap ****? Don't even get me started on his green AoE that's best used against a single target because "random stun".
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    eaise wrote:
    fmftint wrote:
    fmftint wrote:
    Be realistic everyone, the Xforce nerf is justified. One character shouldn't be the best tool for every job, and that's what he was.
    Ok Ive taken quite a few thumbs down for this statement, Im fine with that. But no one has bothered to explain why one character being the best at everything is good for the game. All it does is devalue everyone else

    let's say you want the fastest car in the world. So you buy said car. 2 weeks later while you're sleeping they come take parts out of your car and replace them. Because it was too fast compared to all the other cars

    Another way to put this is. What's the point of trying to get the better characters in the game if D3 is going to continue to nerf the top characters.
    There is no reason to try and get covers anymore. Any character that is good will eventually be nerfed. And then all characters will suck as much as Bagman
    you still aren't explaining why it is a good idea for ONE character to be THE answer to everything. Your car analogy doesn't work because the fastest car in the world is still bound by the speed limit.
  • scottee
    scottee Posts: 1,609 Chairperson of the Boards
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    The very loud vocal minority is the most affected by this. And those are the top 5% with maxed X-Forces. (me included)

    What no one is saying is that by bringing down X-Force, every person in 3* land just got a giant boost.

    It's clear they want 4*s to be better than 3*s, but only by a little. If the jump in power from 2* to 3* is like 60%, it looks like they want the jump from 3* to 4* to only be like 20%.

    I think this makes it obvious they want 3* to be the main class, and to play in 4* land you have to pay a huge premium to have a slight advantage. I'm ok with this design choice. The main problem is that everyone got used to a couple of 4*s being 80% better than everyone else. And people don't deal with change well.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    turul wrote:
    Overall thought:
    XF: Doesn't look that bad, except green dmg, but it was unwise descision to release this era of PVP-MMR and related adjustments/tests are going. Also, worst possible time based on morale.
    Beast: Still Beast, back to the drawing board.
    Other characters: moved up a tier, however some of those damage numbers should be still improved +25-50%... (IW green, Elektra)

    Pretty much this. I don't think XForce is in Sentry/Spidey land, but I'll certainly move to 4/5/4 at first chance, and probably 3/5/5 once I realize the green still isn't doing much. I think the 3600 damage/full heal for his yellow has always been pretty good, just was overshadowed by the green.
  • taloncarde wrote:
    turul wrote:
    Overall thought:

    XF: Doesn't look that bad, except green dmg, but it was unwise descision to release this era of PVP-MMR and related adjustments/tests are going. Also, worst possible time based on morale.

    Speaking specifically to the damage of green, I don't have X-Force at max level, and I was averaging around 4k-5K damage with his green power alone when you take into account tile destruction/cascades. So while going from 3k base to 1k base seems drastic, the reality is he is doing far more than that on average.

    (For the record, my green base damage is only 2702 at lvl 140)

    And you are ready for that base damage to be only 702? Seriously?

    It's too far, especially now that it can't be fed with Surgical Strike. It's barely better than Ares' green, let alone being 160% better than Patch's green which is what he's supposed to be.
  • Der_Lex
    Der_Lex Posts: 1,035 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Guys, if you want veterans to quit your game to make room for new players, just say so. Your current passive-aggressive approach of doing everything in your power to make the game less fun for 3-4* players is a much lamer way of getting that point across.
  • tanis3303
    tanis3303 Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
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    rXMj7fk1.jpg
  • Lerysh wrote:
    taloncarde wrote:
    turul wrote:
    Overall thought:

    XF: Doesn't look that bad, except green dmg, but it was unwise descision to release this era of PVP-MMR and related adjustments/tests are going. Also, worst possible time based on morale.

    Speaking specifically to the damage of green, I don't have X-Force at max level, and I was averaging around 4k-5K damage with his green power alone when you take into account tile destruction/cascades. So while going from 3k base to 1k base seems drastic, the reality is he is doing far more than that on average.

    (For the record, my green base damage is only 2702 at lvl 140)

    And you are ready for that base damage to be only 702? Seriously?

    It's too far, especially now that it can't be fed with Surgical Strike. It's barely better than Ares' green, let alone being 160% better than Patch's green which is what he's supposed to be.

    Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.
  • itunes review just left, voice opinion there as well!
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    scottee wrote:
    It's clear they want 4*s to be better than 3*s, but only by a little. If the jump in power from 2* to 3* is like 60%, it looks like they want the jump from 3* to 4* to only be like 20%.

    Problem is, they're not. The jump is like -14% to a 4*. Yeah, new Elektra is still better than new Beast, but can make a case both are still inferior to Punisher, let alone some of the stronger characters in the tier.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
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    At least Miles got the negative PR lesson right---bury the bad news (XF nerf) into other news on a Friday afternoon. At least the nerf was an open secret that everyone knew was coming. What surprised me truly is the health increases. If you consider that change in light of the boost nerf from 6 colors to 4, it's clear D3 has an agenda in mind---disallow quick matches and make ppl spend more $$$ on health packs and shields.

    Okay, with that out of the way, I'm REALLY excited by the change to She Hulk. My 535 needs to be respecced to 355, of course, but now she is DEFINITELY going to be more fun than loki in a xf/hood teamup. I'm also happy to see the changes for IW. First, mine is already specced at 553 and it looks like that will remain the best setup for her. Second, her blue power is much easier to trigger, and the lockdown will make her VERY effective against pesky special tile generators. In fact, she will be VERY USEFUL in fighting a Professor X team, in my view. On the flip side, having her on your defensive team MAY persuade players to avoid your team b/c her invisible tile is still not difficult to trigger. Nobody wants to be stuck trying to kill off her tile between shield hops.

    So while She Hulk will be my priority to level up post 4/17, IW will be getting some iso as well.
  • woopie
    woopie Posts: 311 Mover and Shaker
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    udonomefoo wrote:
    woopie wrote:
    Merged the two threads, fixed the first post to have the nicer formatting, and deleted the later, nicer formatted post. Continue your angry mob. Pitchforks on the right, torches on the left.

    Where do I go if I lit my pitchfork on fire?

    Anywhere you want. Trust me, no one is going to say anything to stop you.

    Not sure whether to listen considering your sig...

    Anyway, are top alliances imploding everywhere? People were already peeved with the 4or nerf and now there really is no reason to level a 4*
  • taloncarde wrote:

    Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

    Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    puppychow wrote:
    it's clear D3 has an agenda in mind---disallow quick matches and make ppl spend more $$$ on health packs and shields.

    While I understand this argument, my hunch is that the first part is correct, the second is not.

    Quick matches is what constantly shifts the PvP paradigm from character to character. If all matches are (roughly) the same speed, there is no character to rise to the top of PvP. That in turn leads to more people using more characters, which is ultimately their goal. The health and shields are just byproducts of that process.

    Of course, that works only in theory. They're will be a new fastest team (Hulk bombing?), and that's where things will gravitate next.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Phantron wrote:
    taloncarde wrote:

    Have they clarified if surgical strike can't feed it? Remember usually when it says a tile is destroyed, it generates AP. Green says it specifically doesn't generate AP, but black doesn't say that at all. Old power it was an addition at higher levels, but maybe now black generates AP at all levels.

    Since very few people understands the game's wording convention (anything that does not say do not generate AP does generate AP) this question is apparently forgotten even though it's a rather important part of the character. Sure, I can see people will assume it just won't generate AP and that would be my guess too, but if those wording is exactly what appears in the game then that'd mean Surgical Strike now generates AP on all 5 levels, which would likely be a significant buff.

    The 'old' ability in the description of this thread has no wording for 'does not generate AP,' though we all know it does not before it says so. I'm assuming it's the same convention, where in game it says so, but not here for whatever reason.