Coming Soon: Character Updates!

Spiritclaw

Bigtaf wrote:

What is also somewhat bemusing is D3's complete lack of response. In case anyone's wondering yes D3 has logged in and seen the responses

In my experience, you don't get a response from an employee reading a forum post. They have to consider the problem, meet and discuss, decide whether the player base has an element of truth in their complaint, and consider whether and how they can address it. That takes some time, and it's Monday. I've been checking announcements periodically to see if Demiurge/D3 might decide to mitigate the X-force or Quicksilver nerfs, but I'd call anything before tomorrow night unexpectedly prompt.

It's far from crucial at this point, the nerfs aren't even live yet.

Unknown

bustapup wrote:

This X-Force nerf is an absolute load of ****. The amount of time/money spent levelling him up only for his Green AND Black to be totally ruined.

the green does HALF as much damage and the black doesn't deplete their AP nor does it drain it for yourself? Absolute ****.

X-force wasn't gonna keep his AP tricks, D3 has launched the war on AP

Spoit wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

ayatorahxephon wrote:

Oh devs, while you are it please nerf Quicksilver, Kingpin, Kamala and Prof X cause they are really overpowered!! Oh wait, I've forgotten they are still new and need some data to proof what I've said and that you need to milk the whales 1st before nerfing and introducing even newer overpowered characters

It's the league of legends strategy - don't balance things until they're released

To be fair, for these 3 (IF too) examples, they probably made similar nerfs for other characters pre-release, it's just that they didn't pre-release character details, so we didn't know about them

I'd much rather have input to a character(Unknown) before they're released than have them released and be overpowered. Its obvious we can't trust D3 to balance characters.

Although Iron Fist nerf was controversial, we told D3 he was overpowered, and they responded. Sure they'll get some flak but that was the right course of action.

Phaserhawk

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

And will you really want to use SS early in a match if it means screwing yourself out the AP you need to gather for your next attack?

It changes team build. Previously it was if Strongest = Green, fine, else bring partner to utilize strongest color. Now if you're using Surgical on Thoress, you want to make sure you don't have a red user in tow.

I already pulled a 4th yellow for XForce, which I'm using the second the changes go live. The cascades on his green are still what they are, but the extra heal/extra damage to me is worth more than the 4->5 green upgrade now.

The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that XForce/Thoress get dethroned, but the gap is at least closing. Already seeing more Fury's than previous. Still no Elektra/Starlord to be found anywhere though.

Yeah I did the math prior and 3/5/5 does more theoretical damage then all the builds, but then green becomes abysmal, only doing about 741 with intial plus tile damage, not taking into acount cascades. But Recovery becomes very interesting. It's either a full damage erase or 3600 dmg if you go level 5.

X-Force (average value of tiles for X-Force is 42)
lvl 3--363 dmg + (9 x 42 = 378)==741 + whatever in cascades
lvl 4--1088 dmg + (9 x 42 = 378)==1466 + whatever in cascades
lvl 5--1360 dmg + (15 x 42 = 630)==1990 + whatever in cascades

Recovery
lvl 3--273 x 6 = 1640 dmg + cascades or heal for 4243
lvl 4--400 x 6 = 2400 dmg + cascades or heal for 6128
lvl 5--400 x 9 = 3600 dmg + cascades or heal for 9899

You lose 524 dmg in but gain 760 damage in if you opt for 4/5/4

Recovery really does seem like the go to skill as it has no down sides if it goes off or not, does more damage than X-Force and destroys about the same number of tiles.

I do think 4/5/4 or possibly 3/5/5 are the better builds now, I'm not sure if I'll go all the way to 3/5/5 but I agree I think 4/5/4 is a no brainer now. The only reason to stay 5/5/3 is to have a stronger defensive skill since X-Force still blows up more tiles and increases your chance of destroying their special tiles.

Unknown

What annoys me the most with nerf changes is that sometimes you need to respec your hero, and with a 4* is more annoying

Unknown

Bigtaf wrote:

I think a question D3 better be asking themselves is who is honestly going to buy 4* cards anymore?
Even if a new 4* is introduced that is useful do they really think they have the trust of the community, not to completely nerf the character a few months in, anymore?

THIS, pve for 4* lost all meaning
while it keeps being only top 50 for personal rewards it really makes no sense to bother

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

You lose 524 dmg in but gain 760 damage in if you opt for 4/5/4

Only if you assume you will never gain anything via the cascade generated by the extra 6 tiles in green5, and only if you assume you will always match the recovery tile. Those are pretty extreme assumptions. Apply any sort reasonable likelihood to each, and green will come out ahead.

GrumpySmurf1002

aesthetocyst wrote:

Considering the wizardectomy done to black, no analysis of the wisdom of 535? or 445? 5 yellow is a definite no brainer it seems.

In my view, the AP drain was the point of black. It's right in the description. Now it only removes potential AP from the board. It's basically green but targeted and with potentially higher damage. Also still very situational, as it always was. I would rather they left the AP tricks, and neutered the damage, leaving him with a heal, and AP attack, and a damage attack.

I personally try to maintain a "never intentionally short the highest damage ability" for a character, so to me 5 black is standard.

That said, 3 black gives up almost 500 dmg per tile, 4 black gives up about 335. On an average board, you're giving up 4500/3000 damage for minimal gains in both green/yellow. So in this case it's not even really a close decision. Anything less is clearly sub-optimal.

Phaserhawk wrote:

I'm right there with you on the 4/5/4 X-Force build. the question for me is do I tip the scales all the way and go 3/5/5? At that point yellow becomes do I let X-Force heal for 10K or take 3600 dmg? Green becomes horrible at that point though but Recovery is stellar. That's where I"m sitting right now, although then if you do go 3/5/5 then having KK or the new IW becoming awesome duos for X-Force, moreso IW, as she's got the new best Single Target Green

To me the biggest reason to run X-Force 3/5/5 is because Surgical denies a color to both players if green is the color you won't care because your green sucks.

4/5/4 I think toes the line perfectly between a nice balance of power all over while not sacrficing too much on green, but gaining a great deal in Yellow

Moved your quote from the other thread to keep that one on-topic.

I'm going to run 4/5/4 for a bit, and when I eventually get the 5th yellow, I'll make a decision then, but it's doubtful I'll go to 3/5/5 unless I decide to exclusively run him as the black/yellow outlet (which I use Panther/Cage for now).

Unknown

Main problem with X-Force black even if the damage was scaled is that both teams will lose a whole ap pool on the board, and unlke thats purple, you dont want that happening
I think i'll keep him 553, mostly as a support to clear pve countdown tiles form the board, but it seems dumb to respec yellow, i really dont care if he heals himself to new, still useless after the nerf lol

Punisher5784

Can someone explain:

Spider-man 2* - Old: 3,920 - New: 4,998

I'm trying to find some humor in these changes.. what was the point of increasing Bagman's health? lol.

AE_Fios

https://www.bbb.org/consumer-complaints ... et-started

Demiurge Studios
[Information Redacted.]


If you feel cheated it's within your rights to file a complaint with the BBB. Demiurge Studios attempting to circumvent bait-and-switch ala hero points and not offer refunds is an extremely skechy business practice. If you've invested actual money into this game make sure you request a full refund and report this borderline illegal activity to the better business bureau.

Scoregasms

Phaserhawk wrote:

Yeah I did the math prior and 3/5/5 does more theoretical damage then all the builds, but then green becomes abysmal, only doing about 741 with intial plus tile damage, not taking into acount cascades. But Recovery becomes very interesting. It's either a full damage erase or 3600 dmg if you go level 5.

X-Force (average value of tiles for X-Force is 42)
lvl 3--363 dmg + (9 x 42 = 378)==741 + whatever in cascades
lvl 4--1088 dmg + (9 x 42 = 378)==1466 + whatever in cascades
lvl 5--1360 dmg + (15 x 42 = 630)==1990 + whatever in cascades

Recovery
lvl 3--273 x 6 = 1640 dmg + cascades or heal for 4243
lvl 4--400 x 6 = 2400 dmg + cascades or heal for 6128
lvl 5--400 x 9 = 3600 dmg + cascades or heal for 9899

You lose 524 dmg in but gain 760 damage in if you opt for 4/5/4

Recovery really does seem like the go to skill as it has no down sides if it goes off or not, does more damage than X-Force and destroys about the same number of tiles.

I do think 4/5/4 or possibly 3/5/5 are the better builds now, I'm not sure if I'll go all the way to 3/5/5 but I agree I think 4/5/4 is a no brainer now. The only reason to stay 5/5/3 is to have a stronger defensive skill since X-Force still blows up more tiles and increases your chance of destroying their special tiles.

Anybody else think the minute this goes live, XFW's Recovery tile will now drop in the absolute best place (i.e. never be matched away)? Lol, it might just be me, but the recent characters like IF and Cage seem to drop their Attack/Protect Tiles in unusually great spots, a lot better than older characters. Maybe I'm just looking into it a bit too much, but it definitely seems to be a more "smart" drop for their special tiles than older characters I've been using.

Buret0

Your tears of unfathomable sadness are delicious.

As a 2-3 star transition player (still playing level 80 to 110s) who gets frustrated that every PVP team has a maxed XForce, this is fantastic.

Whether you are a pay to win whale or someone who only buys HP to do roster expansions, the game needs to be about team combos rather than OP single characters.

Should Demi have responded more quickly to the obvious OP XF?
Sure.

Should you have all seen the nerf hammer coming for months?
Sure.

Can we feel bad for the 2* players who decided to try and skip broad development and go straight for a fully covered XF?
Yeah, but we don't have to.

The longer matches are going to be mildly tiresome (any word on whether the HP update is going to boost the PvE goons as well?), but I think that is part of the balance. My experience in PvP lately has been beating up on about seven or eight players with a base level special, followed by a team of level 1ish storm and Iron Mans... these won't take any longer. These battles are followed up by a couple of level 50s and a couple of level 93s. Then at about 110 to 230 points in I start getting nothing but level 160+ fights. 9/10 of those fights have a fully covered XForce.

As a player who is finally at the point where a transition into PvP is possible, it is frustrating to have the cap in this game set so low (and with 43 characters, it is equally disappointing getting three DPD events in a row where I have missed the ReqChar). I can grind out a top 10 placement in story events with diligence, but I'm sick of hitting these early walls in PvP where I go from fighting similar level players to having to jump 50 to 100+ levels on fully covered XFWs.

At least now there might be less incentive for the similar level players to try and just pay to jump to a max covered XFW or similar. If anything, it least I'll be less likely to skip those level 93 teams that are being backed by a single max covered XF at level 170.

TLCstormz

That was an extremely uncaring way to voice your opinion of things.

People are facing some legitimate financial and emotional distress / regret from this.

Have a bit more empathy and a little less immaturity, please.

Hanzo0313

If you buy something, you basically choose him among others because of it's function, SPEC, description, commercial...etc.

I bought the XF because of it's description. Now it changed, for what?! For D3's decision to design it too powerful?
So everyone spends money on this game because 4*Thor, 4*XF, then Demi found
"Hey, they're too strong, nobody buy other charaters"
"What should we do?"
"Simple, make other garbage characters that nobody uses before, squeeze other guys money"

Really disappointed for that. For me, I don't care about the money spent, but the feeling to be cheated.

simonsez

Gothic Kratos wrote:

Last edited by GothicKratos on Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: The inclusion of a business address is a serious safety concern. You don't need a physical location to file a report with the BBB.

Yes, you do need to provide an address when you file a complaint, and demiurge has their address on their own website, so I guess they're not nearly as paranoid as you are.

Arondite

What are they gonna do anyway, issue a censure? Whoaaa, scary stuff.

(Not the users of the forum; the BBB).

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

And will you really want to use SS early in a match if it means screwing yourself out the AP you need to gather for your next attack?

It changes team build. Previously it was if Strongest = Green, fine, else bring partner to utilize strongest color. Now if you're using Surgical on Thoress, you want to make sure you don't have a red user in tow.

I already pulled a 4th yellow for XForce, which I'm using the second the changes go live. The cascades on his green are still what they are, but the extra heal/extra damage to me is worth more than the 4->5 green upgrade now.

The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that XForce/Thoress get dethroned, but the gap is at least closing. Already seeing more Fury's than previous. Still no Elektra/Starlord to be found anywhere though.

Yeah I did the math prior and 3/5/5 does more theoretical damage then all the builds, but then green becomes abysmal, only doing about 741 with intial plus tile damage, not taking into acount cascades. But Recovery becomes very interesting. It's either a full damage erase or 3600 dmg if you go level 5.

X-Force (average value of tiles for X-Force is 42)
lvl 3--363 dmg + (9 x 42 = 378)==741 + whatever in cascades
lvl 4--1088 dmg + (9 x 42 = 378)==1466 + whatever in cascades
lvl 5--1360 dmg + (15 x 42 = 630)==1990 + whatever in cascades

Recovery
lvl 3--273 x 6 = 1640 dmg + cascades or heal for 4243
lvl 4--400 x 6 = 2400 dmg + cascades or heal for 6128
lvl 5--400 x 9 = 3600 dmg + cascades or heal for 9899

You lose 524 dmg in but gain 760 damage in if you opt for 4/5/4

Recovery really does seem like the go to skill as it has no down sides if it goes off or not, does more damage than X-Force and destroys about the same number of tiles.

I do think 4/5/4 or possibly 3/5/5 are the better builds now, I'm not sure if I'll go all the way to 3/5/5 but I agree I think 4/5/4 is a no brainer now. The only reason to stay 5/5/3 is to have a stronger defensive skill since X-Force still blows up more tiles and increases your chance of destroying their special tiles.

Just a point.... unless they've changed it the tiles destroyed by Xforce do damage based on your team, not just him. So you tend to do a chunk more than 42 per tile unless you've got a strange-**** team makeup

Unknown

I am almost probably certain that isn't true. All skills that "break" tiles for damage value use the skill users damage numbers. Bring Juggernaut along with your Patch and Daken if you don't believe me and check out his green.

GrumpySmurf1002

Lerysh wrote:

I am almost probably certain that isn't true. All skills that "break" tiles for damage value use the skill users damage numbers. Bring Juggernaut along with your Patch and Daken if you don't believe me and check out his green.

Whether it is or isn't (no clue personally), even if you did the maximum (82 per tile) every time, it's a dead heat. (-764 for green, +760 for yellow).

I suppose at that point the extra 9 tiles of cascade are important, but I don't think it's necessarily game breaking. And that's the best case scenario for green.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Gothic Kratos wrote:

Last edited by GothicKratos on Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: The inclusion of a business address is a serious safety concern. You don't need a physical location to file a report with the BBB.

Yes, you do need to provide an address when you file a complaint, and demiurge has their address on their own website, so I guess they're not nearly as paranoid as you are.

Not sure why Demiurges address was removed either, since it is public information.