Coming Soon: Character Updates!

Scoregasms

simonsez wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

It's not just that the TV got cheaper, it got worse, too.

I feel like super-gullible-Rob-Lowe...

Lol, the fact that the Rob Lowe commercials got nerfed (i.e. pulled) this week makes this seem all the more relevant. There's gotta be some analogy here... Link for Directv pulling ads

Kilwrath

Too much change at once, when will you learn D3/Demiurge? I really thought things were turning around after adding the DP Daily and some reasonable changes to 2* mags and Mystique.

I knew the Xforce change was coming and he definitely needed toning down, but you've decimated a character that many of us have invested substantial time, energy and in some cases real money to acquire.

This is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for me - any trust you earned from recent positive changes just disappeared. It's hard to believe you listen to any player input when you screw up the game this badly. I can't justify continuing to spend time and money on a game run by a team that is so completely out of touch with its core player base.

Vohnkar

Kilwrath wrote:

Too much change at once, when will you learn D3/Demiurge? I really thought things were turning around after adding the DP Daily and some reasonable changes to 2* mags and Mystique.

I knew the Xforce change was coming and he definitely needed toning down, but you've decimated a character that many of us have invested substantial time, energy and in some cases real money to acquire.

This is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for me - any trust you earned from recent positive changes just disappeared. It's hard to believe you listen to any player input when you screw up the game this badly. I can't justify continuing to spend time and money on a game run by a team that is so completely out of touch with its core player base.

It seems for them theirr core players are the lower lvl ones, theres no other explanation to how much they are trying to screw progression of our rosters, every time we spent anything to try to progress and get more lvls, chars etc, we are punished, so the logical explanation has to be they prefer lower lvl player and new players.

Pylgrim

Chungachangas wrote:

With the health boosts I'm concerned that the abilities with " % health loss" to-trigger, will be harder to activate.

For example:
Captain Marvel
Deadpool
(They left hulk out of the HP gains! - but I think he needs a rework too - he should get angry more - it's his thing)

Actually, both Deadpool and Cap Marvel trigger their abilities off a set amount of damage taken, not from a percentage. For them, the health increase is a bona-fide buff as they can now take many more ability-triggering hits before dying.

Unknown

Vohnkar wrote:

Kilwrath wrote:

Too much change at once, when will you learn D3/Demiurge? I really thought things were turning around after adding the DP Daily and some reasonable changes to 2* mags and Mystique.

I knew the Xforce change was coming and he definitely needed toning down, but you've decimated a character that many of us have invested substantial time, energy and in some cases real money to acquire.

This is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for me - any trust you earned from recent positive changes just disappeared. It's hard to believe you listen to any player input when you screw up the game this badly. I can't justify continuing to spend time and money on a game run by a team that is so completely out of touch with its core player base.

It seems for them theirr core players are the lower lvl ones, theres no other explanation to how much they are trying to screw progression of our rosters, every time we spent anything to try to progress and get more lvls, chars etc, we are punished, so the logical explanation has to be they prefer lower lvl player and new players.

the funny part is whales pay for F2P games, but they have to make game more friendly for avengers 2

Stax the Foyer

gamar wrote:

Matches probably will get longer, but because of the X-Force nerf, not the HP buff.

Don't discount the effect of the HP boost. XForce already peters out in long fights unless you can leverage strong black or green on the enemy team. The HP buff would have pushed almost all non-seed fights into that range, especially because most characters are pushed out of range of an early match damage + XForce Green KO.

Unknown

I'm currently at day 527.

I have played and loved this game for a long time. I have built characters and fought my **** off to build my X-Force to compete with those who drop coin on 4*s. I finally get him maxed and this happens. Sure, he could have used an adjustment but this is overkill. The word "neuter" used repeatedly in this thread resonates well with me.

Forget getting any money from myself and a good percentage of the rest of your players D3. No more shields, no more health packs, no more covers. Why waste money investing in characters that will be changed on a whim? I'll keep playing but you wont get a penny from me.

Tinykitty tinykitty tinykitty

ErikPeter

So, you made PvP a slog through 17-point matches that burn 2 heal packs apiece, the same week you're giving almost every character a 30% health boost.

Huzzah!

Edit to add:

Thanks for the character updates. Very excited to level my 4/3/3 IW from 70! You buffed Elektra really well; Dance of Death needed that little tweak.

I'm not too worried about X-force. X-Force only does 3k damage now, instead of 5k, not a big deal and more fair for the cost. SS lost utility but still compares very favorably to Fury's Demolition. He's still going to be very good--and you've given us reasons to consider 5 in yellow.

I find it hilarious that MANIPULATION got a nerf. Will someone comment on the move away from CD-overwriting powers? (Those CD-RWs are now CD-ROM narf) Settlement seems pretty interesting now; "Why yes I will take that Exquisite Technique, thank you very much..." but it also lost the ability to target CDs. Oh well, I didn't have either of those at rank 5 anyways. Furious Charge is going to wreck people. "Oh, you had 10 black saved up? There it goes..." I think I'll max She-hulk next. (Here's hoping AP destruction isn't the next "oops, we under-costed that feature").

And Beast looks good too. Or at least a lot better. The cost of those all-too-destroyable CDs on blue is eased by the cheap cost. He's going to team with falcon really well now. Gamora rounds 'em out maybe... Or Elektra.

Unknown

aesthetocyst wrote:

Vohnkar wrote:

Kilwrath wrote:

Too much change at once, when will you learn D3/Demiurge? I really thought things were turning around after adding the DP Daily and some reasonable changes to 2* mags and Mystique.

I knew the Xforce change was coming and he definitely needed toning down, but you've decimated a character that many of us have invested substantial time, energy and in some cases real money to acquire.

This is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for me - any trust you earned from recent positive changes just disappeared. It's hard to believe you listen to any player input when you screw up the game this badly. I can't justify continuing to spend time and money on a game run by a team that is so completely out of touch with its core player base.

It seems for them theirr core players are the lower lvl ones, theres no other explanation to how much they are trying to screw progression of our rosters, every time we spent anything to try to progress and get more lvls, chars etc, we are punished, so the logical explanation has to be they prefer lower lvl player and new players.

Of course they do, there will always be churn, any game that can't engage new players dies.

The inexcusable failure is the inability to appeal to both new and old players. relative dearth of content and events. Tiered PVP would be a good start.

games like this don't get content, only new characters. People will play hard for new characters, new characters = $$$, new events not nearly as much. It's a vicious cycle. It's the League of Legends Conundrum.

Dauthi

Arondite wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I think the X-Force green nerf is a bit much. It should have been shifted, not cut by 2/3. Like, destroy more tiles in exchange for the damage.

It should do no extra damage, but destroy 32 tiles in a criss-cross pattern, for tile values. Maybe make it cost more. I don't know.

This is a really hard neuter, and I don't think it's quite right.

I like the other changes, though. This could make the game more fun.

I hope everyone is remembering that you still get damage for wolverine's green ability through tile destruction. They only dropped his damage by 2k total, so instead of doing 5k damage plus shakeup (which is pretty ridiculous for 8 ap) it does 3k damage + shakeup, which is still great compared to other balanced characters.

Everyone griping is still going to end up using him not because they have him, but because he is still a solid character.

1360 + (15 x 42.5) = 3K?

Hmmm..

Hmm...

Old
MAX LV 5: Deals 3441 damage and destroys 15 tiles in 3 3x3 X-Shaped patterns

New

MAX LV 5: Deals 1360 damage and destroys 15 tiles in 3 3x3 X-Shaped patterns

Now if we use math we can see it is only a 2k decrease in base damage. So if he currently does 5k damage, then we minus 2k.. hmm...

I have been waiting for his nerf for a long time. I wouldn't ever quit from them making the game longer or harder due to MMR, I would leave because I'm sick of using Xforce for Every. Single. Match. I don't even call it MPQ anymore, it is Xforce Puzzle Quest because he is so strong there isn't a reason not to use him. In my opinion he will be where he should be, the only thing that would make me mad at this point is if they create another monster like him, that would be a cash grab.

gamar wrote:

Somehow I missed that She-Hulk's green now costs 6, not 12

holy tinykitty

holy tinykitty

That was my initial thought after reading the buffs. She is going to wreck on defense (and be fun on offense) with that. I need her green now badly I never would have guessed I would be typing that

acescracked

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.

This needs to be directly addressed by someone at demirgue. In TaT I faced 330 lvl enemies. Fine I used 270 xforce,255 4hor and 166 Loki. 4hor Nerf made it slower but beatable. Now with xforce Nerf and 4hor Nerf I'm not so sure.

I'm hoping the solution is not failing miserably at pve until levels come down. I haven't read every page so if this is addressed somewhere in this thread my apologies.

Unknown

acescracked wrote:

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.

This needs to be directly addressed by someone at demirgue. In TaT I faced 330 lvl enemies. Fine I used 270 xforce,255 4hor and 166 Loki. 4hor Nerf made it slower but beatable. Now with xforce Nerf and 4hor Nerf I'm not so sure.

I'm hoping the solution is not failing miserably at pve until levels come down. I haven't read every page so if this is addressed somewhere in this thread my apologies.

They obviously don't care about PVE scaling, D3 said they could fix "emergency stuff" in PVE(A la changing the Kingpin to top 100 alliance). And we all know how Prodigal Sun is. With PVP in it's current state and PVE scaling, having high level characters means you're krutacked.

Arondite

Dauthi wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I think the X-Force green nerf is a bit much. It should have been shifted, not cut by 2/3. Like, destroy more tiles in exchange for the damage.

It should do no extra damage, but destroy 32 tiles in a criss-cross pattern, for tile values. Maybe make it cost more. I don't know.

This is a really hard neuter, and I don't think it's quite right.

I like the other changes, though. This could make the game more fun.

I hope everyone is remembering that you still get damage for wolverine's green ability through tile destruction. They only dropped his damage by 2k total, so instead of doing 5k damage plus shakeup (which is pretty ridiculous for 8 ap) it does 3k damage + shakeup, which is still great compared to other balanced characters.

Everyone griping is still going to end up using him not because they have him, but because he is still a solid character.

1360 + (15 x 42.5) = 3K?

Hmmm..

Hmm...

Old
MAX LV 5: Deals 3441 damage and destroys 15 tiles in 3 3x3 X-Shaped patterns

New

MAX LV 5: Deals 1360 damage and destroys 15 tiles in 3 3x3 X-Shaped patterns

Now if we use math we can see it is only a 2k decrease in base damage. So if he currently does 5k damage, then we minus 2k.. hmm...

Except he usually won't do 5K currently, hmmm. That is, unless you're the lucky sort that's ripping 15 Green Tiles every single time (lol). For instance, in your examples, if every one of the 15 tiles was green somehow, you'd be getting 1,230 Bonus damage from the 15 destroyed tiles. (15 x 82). That's, at absolute most 4,671 damage before cascades (and assuming some godlike board that has 15 green tiles positioned exactly right for you to hit them all). So tell me, when the old damage cap before cascades was 4,671, how were you managing to average 5k+ before cascades?

Also it's called "subtracting" 2k, Not "minusing" 2K.

Get math'd, kid.

RemoDestroyer

aesthetocyst wrote:

Vohnkar wrote:

Kilwrath wrote:

Too much change at once, when will you learn D3/Demiurge? I really thought things were turning around after adding the DP Daily and some reasonable changes to 2* mags and Mystique.

I knew the Xforce change was coming and he definitely needed toning down, but you've decimated a character that many of us have invested substantial time, energy and in some cases real money to acquire.

This is likely the straw that broke the camel's back for me - any trust you earned from recent positive changes just disappeared. It's hard to believe you listen to any player input when you screw up the game this badly. I can't justify continuing to spend time and money on a game run by a team that is so completely out of touch with its core player base.

It seems for them theirr core players are the lower lvl ones, theres no other explanation to how much they are trying to screw progression of our rosters, every time we spent anything to try to progress and get more lvls, chars etc, we are punished, so the logical explanation has to be they prefer lower lvl player and new players.

Of course they do, there will always be churn, any game that can't engage new players dies.

The inexcusable failure is the inability to appeal to both new and old players. The relative dearth of content and events. Tiered PVP would be a good start.

On paper I like the idea of tiered events. With higher level rosters competing for better rewards. But high level rosters or characters at least also would need to be locked out of lower tier events. This sounds similar to Marvel Contest of Champions, the 11th highest grossing game in the Google play store. Which I also happened to delete from my phone because I felt it took up too much memory, felt too grindy and was slow loading for every possible action outside of matches. And I have yet to quit mpq.

Unknown

acescracked wrote:

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.

This needs to be directly addressed by someone at demirgue. In TaT I faced 330 lvl enemies. Fine I used 270 xforce,255 4hor and 166 Loki. 4hor Nerf made it slower but beatable. Now with xforce Nerf and 4hor Nerf I'm not so sure.

I'm hoping the solution is not failing miserably at pve until levels come down. I haven't read every page so if this is addressed somewhere in this thread my apologies.

Managing your scaling in the current system requires pretty abnormal play... you have to essentially intentionally take unnecessary damage to avoid scaling BUT once you go beyond a certain point of scaling you hit the situation where you win cleanly (little damage) or get heroes downed because you have no way to find a middle ground when taking damage (all abilities rip your guys apart if you let them fire off at all).

So you need to basically play badly to play well (if you get what I mean). It makes altering the system kind of tricky though. Simply lower scaling across the board and the guys who manage their scaling to stay at lvl 200 bad guys with maxed rosters suddenly go super easy mode. On the other hand if you just increase level decay by taking hero damage then you'll still only alter the scaling of ppl intentionally playing abnormally (and knowing they have to do that I guess).

IMO the "fairest" way would be to scale to roster level BUT then you're creating an artficial reason to not level heroes because of the dual character improvement methods of covers and levels. You get no scaling for getting covers so get those, avoid levels and profit. IMO though that's a better situation than over-scaling anyway. Ppl prioritizing a PvE roster at the expense of their PvP roster strength seems like a choice and players should get those where possible (IMO).

So what i'm basically saying is I reckon it would take a rework of the system rather than a tweak, so not an easy thing to do quickly (and no matter what was done a section of players would be unhappy).

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

acescracked wrote:

Ebolamonkey84 wrote:

If you are going to continually take away our best toys, can you at least occasionally reset the PVE scaling? I can think of a few guys in my alliance that will no longer be able to compete against lvl 300 characters now that their two best weapons have been taken.

This needs to be directly addressed by someone at demirgue. In TaT I faced 330 lvl enemies. Fine I used 270 xforce,255 4hor and 166 Loki. 4hor Nerf made it slower but beatable. Now with xforce Nerf and 4hor Nerf I'm not so sure.

I'm hoping the solution is not failing miserably at pve until levels come down. I haven't read every page so if this is addressed somewhere in this thread my apologies.

Managing your scaling in the current system requires pretty abnormal play... you have to essentially intentionally take unnecessary damage to avoid scaling BUT once you go beyond a certain point of scaling you hit the situation where you win cleanly (little damage) or get heroes downed because you have no way to find a middle ground when taking damage (all abilities rip your guys apart if you let them fire off at all).

So you need to basically play badly to play well (if you get what I mean). It makes altering the system kind of tricky though. Simply lower scaling across the board and the guys who manage their scaling to stay at lvl 200 bad guys with maxed rosters suddenly go super easy mode. On the other hand if you just increase level decay by taking hero damage then you'll still only alter the scaling of ppl intentionally playing abnormally (and knowing they have to do that I guess).

IMO the "fairest" way would be to scale to roster level BUT then you're creating an artficial reason to not level heroes because of the dual character improvement methods of covers and levels. You get no scaling for getting covers so get those, avoid levels and profit. IMO though that's a better situation than over-scaling anyway. Ppl prioritizing a PvE roster at the expense of their PvP roster strength seems like a choice and players should get those where possible (IMO).

So what i'm basically saying is I reckon it would take a rework of the system rather than a tweak, so not an easy thing to do quickly (and no matter what was done a section of players would be unhappy).

My big thing is, scaling in more recent events(Rocket & Groot, Deadpool, Enemy of the State) is fine. So scaling isn't broken. It's really these stupid events.

Disclaimer: I think scaling is stupid overall. Is it really necessary to have us fight level 395 guys when we're at a (possible) 125 level disadvantage? Why does PVE need to be so hard? I understand the Gauntlet(DEFEAT THE IMPOSSIBLE FOR PRIZES!!!!) but I don't understand SImulator: Hard(YOU CANT DO 75% OF THIS ****, IN FACT, NO ONE CAN!). Does ANYONE think it's fun to fight Level 395 Ares 6 times to do a complete grind session?

Dauthi

Arondite wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

Arondite wrote:

Dauthi wrote:

I hope everyone is remembering that you still get damage for wolverine's green ability through tile destruction. They only dropped his damage by 2k total, so instead of doing 5k damage plus shakeup (which is pretty ridiculous for 8 ap) it does 3k damage + shakeup, which is still great compared to other balanced characters.

Everyone griping is still going to end up using him not because they have him, but because he is still a solid character.

1360 + (15 x 42.5) = 3K?

Hmmm..

Hmm...

Old
MAX LV 5: Deals 3441 damage and destroys 15 tiles in 3 3x3 X-Shaped patterns

New

MAX LV 5: Deals 1360 damage and destroys 15 tiles in 3 3x3 X-Shaped patterns

Now if we use math we can see it is only a 2k decrease in base damage. So if he currently does 5k damage, then we minus 2k.. hmm...

Except he usually won't do 5K currently, hmmm. That is, unless you're the lucky sort that's ripping 15 Green Tiles every single time (lol). For instance, in your examples, if every one of the 15 tiles was green somehow, you'd be getting 1,230 Bonus damage from the 15 destroyed tiles. (15 x 82). That's, at absolute most 4,671 damage before cascades (and assuming some godlike board that has 15 green tiles positioned exactly right for you to hit them all). So tell me, when the old damage cap before cascades was 4,671, how were you managing to average 5k+ before cascades?

Also it's called "subtracting" 2k, Not "minusing" 2K.

Get math'd, kid.

That is an English correction, not math

That is some great nit-picking, but the truth is it will do 2k less damage. You haven't AP buffed green for X-Force and one shotted Hood second/third turn before? It was a pretty common practice. You are extremely likely to get at least a single match after board shakeup like his.

Also, are you sure it only counts his colors (which isn't just green) towards tile destruction? It was my assumption it still calculates other's colors too, it would be a lot of work to code it so that it recalculates all the match damage based on his values only despite the tiles being destroyed having other character's emblems.

You may be right, and his average damage was 4.8k damage per X-Force. I apoligize everyone, I may be wrong and he will do 2.8k average damage not 3k

Unknown

I'm obviously in the minority here but I don't see the Xforce nerf as the end of the world. Yes his green got over nerfed. (That one sucks big time.) Now it's just a board shaker. Not horrible but definitely not as good as it was.

But the Surgical Strike change seems reasonable to me. It does more damage to compensate for the no AP generation. I remember when the Hood got nerfed the same way and everyone was going to stop using him. Well guess what? I still use the Hood a lot and I will probably still use Xforce a lot.

We'll adjust to the changes, adapt and move on.

And just for the record, I have HP invested in Xforce. (I got tired of trying to get 5 black covers ). I still don't feel cheated.

simonsez

John1123 wrote:

I'm obviously in the minority here but I don't see the Xforce nerf as the end of the world.

Not the end of the world, but probably the end of having a reasonable option for grinding **** pve nodes for free. I liked competing at the high end of pve. I wish they werent forcing me to either stop, or pay for the privilege

PorkBelly

John1123 wrote:

But the Surgical Strike change seems reasonable to me. It does more damage to compensate for the no AP generation. I remember when the Hood got nerfed the same way and everyone was going to stop using him. Well guess what? I still use the Hood a lot and I will probably still use Xforce a lot.

First, the increased damage is poor compensation for AP drain.

Second, nobody was using Hood primarily for Twin Pistols. The nerf to Twin Pistols did suck but everyone uses Hood for Dormammu's Aid which they didn't touch.