*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

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Comments

  • raisinbman wrote:
    I'm of the mind that he's totally worth spending HP on if for no other reason than the dev cycle seems packed enough to push any big nerf to him probably a long ways off. And good god, after that simulator fight with him, TGT and Luke Cage, pretty much any time I see him and LC together in pvp is going to be a skip. That was really slow and really frustrating to face.

    He's worth spending HP on. It's few and far between that something pops in up MPQ that scares people off from fighting someone in PVP. That's a serious statement.

    And about him getting nerfed? It's down the pipeline. Months. Look at how long it took for Sentry to get nerfed. IMO X-Force will get nerfed/changed(or other 4* will be brought to his level) before Iron Fist gets nerfed.

    Only worth spending HP on if you don't have xor. He is probably the best pairing with XF, and king of the 3* meta with BP if you don't have 4*s, but xor is still superior.

    I can't say either way. I'm so far from them I can't possibly imagine how it looks from at the top. All I know is:

    A) He was probably a 4* character that got downgraded to 3*(in name only from what I can tell)
    B) He has an un-erasable attack tile that will make people either HURT or skip your team entirely(Health packs are at a premium for most players)
    C) He makes your XForce Xforcier
    D) He destroys low health options(Loki/Hood)
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    raisinbman wrote:
    raisinbman wrote:
    I'm of the mind that he's totally worth spending HP on if for no other reason than the dev cycle seems packed enough to push any big nerf to him probably a long ways off. And good god, after that simulator fight with him, TGT and Luke Cage, pretty much any time I see him and LC together in pvp is going to be a skip. That was really slow and really frustrating to face.

    He's worth spending HP on. It's few and far between that something pops in up MPQ that scares people off from fighting someone in PVP. That's a serious statement.

    And about him getting nerfed? It's down the pipeline. Months. Look at how long it took for Sentry to get nerfed. IMO X-Force will get nerfed/changed(or other 4* will be brought to his level) before Iron Fist gets nerfed.

    Only worth spending HP on if you don't have xor. He is probably the best pairing with XF, and king of the 3* meta with BP if you don't have 4*s, but xor is still superior.

    I can't say either way. I'm so far from them I can't possibly imagine how it looks from at the top. All I know is:

    A) He was probably a 4* character that got downgraded to 3*(in name only from what I can tell)
    B) He has an un-erasable attack tile that will make people either HURT or skip your team entirely(Health packs are at a premium for most players)
    C) He makes your XForce Xforcier
    D) He destroys low health options(Loki/Hood)

    Yup. So we agree then.

    Anyways, I was playing around with IF some more in PvP, and the attack tile animation adds an extra second to every turn. If you make a move instantly as soon as its your turn, the animation speed of a match-3 itself is 1 second, so IF's black has a hidden cost of doubling the time it takes to perform a basic turn without abilities. While this isn't a huge deal to most people, if you're trying to say that XF / IF is better / faster than XF / GT, this is a pretty big deal since IF inheritly costs like 10 extra seconds compared to an XF / GT hop, so it's that much more ground to make up.
  • Pwuz_
    Pwuz_ Posts: 1,186 Chairperson of the Boards
    IF could be a potential glimpse at a future 3* power that has yet to be announced. What about a character having a power like the reverse of Falcon's Yellow? Each match of a certain color would trigger a fixed reduction in the value of any enemy tiles.

    Well, that or perhaps a chance for Doc Ock to return ready to spit out Insult tiles.

    The other explanation is that someone accidentally swapped Strike tiles with Attack tiles for IF. How much different would IF be if he spit out a Strike tile at the start of each turn and Attack tiles with his Fang Strike?
  • Pwuz_ wrote:
    IF could be a potential glimpse at a future 3* power that has yet to be announced. What about a character having a power like the reverse of Falcon's Yellow? Each match of a certain color would trigger a fixed reduction in the value of any enemy tiles.

    Well, that or perhaps a chance for Doc Ock to return ready to spit out Insult tiles.

    The other explanation is that someone accidentally swapped Strike tiles with Attack tiles for IF. How much different would IF be if he spit out a Strike tile at the start of each turn and Attack tiles with his Fang Strike?

    The only reason I disagree with you is I think IF is a literal 4* character. If you've seen his healing/down time stuff(viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24862), it's 4* length. I think they switched IF from 4* to 3* but forgot to change that as well as power-down his abilities. But I'd be happy to be wrong if we never get another beast-tier character.
  • Unknown
    edited March 2015
    Iron Fist's purple is just insane.

    There is, literally, no WAY this was even thought about for more than 2 or 3 seconds before it was made.

    Turn 2 Surgical Strike is not okay.

    Was this ability a joke that D3 was intending to revert, but then forgot about it?

    Take this joke:
    http://www.cc.com/video-clips/qc10gm/co ... rving-size

    Go to 1:20.

    And apply that to Iron Fist's purple.

    That MUST have been the scenario.

    That is all.
  • Maybe they got the developer for the 2 AP Thunderclap out of cyro-freeze for Iron Fist.
  • Vinmarc43
    Vinmarc43 Posts: 266
    Needs to be 9 +, like doctor doom or mystique, 5 is somewhat , unbalanced a bit.... icon_rolleyes.gif
  • Zen808
    Zen808 Posts: 260
    Guess what the final node for the next Gauntlet will be...
  • IMO IF helps out the 3* rostered teams more so then the people who have dominant 4*s. Will the people that place in the top ranks already benefit much from IF? Or will IF help to close the gap more against those top players by providing a vehicle for these 3* black users to take down the 4*s easier?
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    I had little to complain about for months and I've been very positive about the improvements and new characters in MPQ recently. But I'm 100% with you on this one. I'm disappointed. I don't know why they did this. Intentional or not, this is bad design.

    I have no idea what they were thinking. Seriously, I think someone on the design team has some 'splaining to do. How can the they sigh "oh man, Sentry..." in the Q & A videos and then do this?

    On a positive note, I'm getting crushed by new teams I've never seen before. IF/Cage/Daken just murdered my team and it was mostly due to IF's purpleflag.png, but also his blackflag.png .

    As much as I anticipated IF in MPQ, I can't look forward to playing him. Because I know that by the time I earn a decent number of his covers, he will be nerfed into oblivion, just like Sentry.

    (It's either that, or the design team has already decided to nerf X-Force in an upcoming release. Either way, people are going to be pissed.)
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    IMO IF helps out the 3* rostered teams more so then the people who have dominant 4*s. Will the people that place in the top ranks already benefit much from IF? Or will IF help to close the gap more against those top players by providing a vehicle for these 3* black users to take down the 4*s easier?

    Don't agree. See 3uphoria's complaint thread about Thoress. My experience in Sticks and Stones suggests that many in the top ranked have already maxed him to run with Cage and/or X-Force. By the time a 3* team earns IF the old fashioned way, he'll be "fixed".

    Remember, the high rank game is all about defense and speed. IF + X-Force gives the AI a very good chance at beating an opponent by the random act of getting to 5 purpletile.png AP. Thoress doesn't do that. A player, of course, will boost to 5 purpletile.png AP immediately.

    It's Sentry all over again, but I guess the Devs think it's OK because of shield cooldowns or something. Personally, I don't get it.
  • IF would be overpowered if he were a 4 star.

    Making him a 3 star with that purple is just laughable.

    Power Creep has skyrocketed in the last few releases.
  • Unknown
    edited March 2015
    The most disappointing thing is that the single move by itself was broken. This wasn't some chain together abilities broken scenario: it's one move! It makes you wonder about the design team. All IF's abilities are overpowered. Exquisite Technique is guaranteed massive damage. His green is nearly 2 Judgements. IFoKL is among the best enabling moves in the game and does 4k damage for 5 AP otherwise, consequence free.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited March 2015
    daibar wrote:
    The most disappointing thing is that the single move by itself was broken. This wasn't some chain together abilities broken scenario: it's one move! It makes you wonder about the design team. All IF's abilities are overpowered. Exquisite Technique is guaranteed massive damage. His green is nearly 2 Judgements. IFoKU is among the best enabling moves in the game and does 4k damage for 5 AP otherwise, consequence free.

    Like I said before this character was even released, 5 purple is the same thing as a maxed out thunder strike without the damage... except it costs freaking 5 AP. This is the root behind why IF is OP: a 5 AP thunder strike is freaking stupid (the ridiculous speed that you get purple out far outstrips the 2.5k damage thunder strike would do), and will lead to idiotic things like turn 1/2 surgical strike. If you nerf purple to 7ish AP, he'd be powerful, but not the king of the 3*s as he is now.

    Green and black are fine. Green in order to be 2 judgements needs 12 black, which isn't that much better than judgement since judgement you can play right away, whereas this one if you hoard till 12 black, then you're losing a lot of value on the strike tiles. Black is very good, but a ceiling of ~5-7k worth of damage over the course of 15 turns isn't exactly degenerate. It's the purple thats the problem: dat 5 AP thunderstrike.
  • Pretty sure IF was originally meant to be a 4*. When they changed him to a 3*, they didn't bother to do any rebalancing. See: IF's revive and heal timers are the same as a 4*

    @NP Think you misread. daibar just said the move is broken by itself.
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    gobstopper wrote:
    Pretty sure IF was originally meant to be a 4*. When they changed him to a 3*, they didn't bother to do any rebalancing. See: IF's revive and heal timers are the same as a 4*

    @NP Think you misread. daibar just said the move is broken by itself.

    Whoops, thanks for the catch. My point stands that green and black are relatively fine though. We don't need to go overboard and say that everything is broken when it's only purple.
  • Well it didnt take long for the nerf police to come out in force...Why complain? It's not like it is an unlevel playing field everyone has the opportunity to level Iron Fist and if you choose not to, it's on you, not the game...
  • NorthernPolarity
    NorthernPolarity Posts: 3,531 Chairperson of the Boards
    WilliamK99 wrote:
    Well it didnt take long for the nerf police to come out in force...Why complain? It's not like it is an unlevel playing field everyone has the opportunity to level Iron Fist and if you choose not to, it's on you, not the game...

    I for one, would like a 3* metagame where all characters are created equal. A 3* metagame where IF / LazyThor / Hood do not obsolete every other character in the game, and where underrepresented characters such as Punisher, Torch, etc can have their moment in the spotlight as well. While we can't make this a reality for all characters (looking at you Psylocke), 3* people should be able to choose between more characters other than Patch / Hulk, LThor / Support, + IF / BP and have that be optimal. I've always felt like "who cares" is an incredibly lazy response: it seems silly to just leave broken characters as is when you could actually have varied team compositions be viable.
  • GuntherBlobel
    GuntherBlobel Posts: 987 Critical Contributor
    gobstopper wrote:
    Pretty sure IF was originally meant to be a 4*. When they changed him to a 3*, they didn't bother to do any rebalancing. See: IF's revive and heal timers are the same as a 4*

    @NP Think you misread. daibar just said the move is broken by itself.
    I think there is indeed something to this theory, but then again, it doesn't make it any less stupid. Among the entire 4* power set, only Lvl 5 Surgical Strike seems to me like it does too much for a single power. And then, here comes IF purpleflag.png to enable it further. He could be a 2* and people would still consider pairing him with X-Force during shield hops.
  • WilliamK99 wrote:
    Well it didnt take long for the nerf police to come out in force...Why complain? It's not like it is an unlevel playing field everyone has the opportunity to level Iron Fist and if you choose not to, it's on you, not the game...

    I for one, would like a 3* metagame where all characters are created equal. A 3* metagame where IF / LazyThor / Hood do not obsolete every other character in the game, and where underrepresented characters such as Punisher, Torch, etc can have their moment in the spotlight as well. While we can't make this a reality for all characters (looking at you Psylocke), 3* people should be able to choose between more characters other than Patch / Hulk, LThor / Support, + IF / BP and have that be optimal. I've always felt like "who cares" is an incredibly lazy response: it seems silly to just leave broken characters as is when you could actually have varied team compositions be viable.

    I have never seen a game reach the type of balance you describe if you know of one please let me know I'd love to play it...