*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

Unknown

I've seen a few freemium games where something completely out of balance gets introduced to induce people to spend money before either a nerf happens or something even more powerful gets introduced. I've already invested a few bucks in roster slots, but will not do so anymore until I see how this issue gets resolved by the devs.

I stated on page 2 in this thread that this character is way too strong compared to the rest of the 3* characters and is a huge heat pack sink for people without true healing teams. Not only does it seem to me that this character was intended for that purpose, but he also exacerbates the X-Force situation.

As of now, I'm going to be dialing back my involvement with MPQ until I see how this gets resolved.

OzarkBoatswain

Tripwire wrote:

As of now, I'm going to be dialing back my involvement with MPQ until I see how this gets resolved.

Same here. It's only Deadpool Dailies for me until this gets resolved.

simonsez

My favorite thing about IF is that I haven't seen a new "nerf XForce!" thread in over a week.

Still haven't to seen an IF nerf idea that would leave me with a character I'd want to use...

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

onimus wrote:

And IF will, undoubtedly, become oppressive unless he is nerfed.

There's really no way to debate that.

So how is it my lv230 IF was batted around like a pinata? After getting the 900 pt prog award, I ended up getting hit all the way down to 707. Seriously, the only person I got any defensive wins off of was you. I could've put up any sort of reasonable formation and wouldn't have gotten hit any worse than that. So clearly people aren't afraid of him and aren't having any problem beating him.

Just a guess, but maybe the only people who attacked you were also using a high level IF/XF. In that case, the one who gets first to 5 purple AP, wins. My IF was only 1/0/3 when the event started and I stayed away of high level IF.

Phaserhawk

simonsez wrote:

My favorite thing about IF is that I haven't seen a new "nerf XForce!" thread in over a week.

Still haven't to seen an IF nerf idea that would leave me with a character I'd want to use...

That's why I say flip the cost of green and purple, reduce black dmg and call it a day. He's still top tier, just not insane top tier.

simonsez

Narkon wrote:

Just a guess, but maybe the only people who attacked you were also using a high level IF/XF.

No, not at all. Going through the retals, I don't remember seeing any higher than the low 100s. Some weren't even running GT. Definitely wasn't a case of whales plowing through everything.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

Narkon wrote:

Just a guess, but maybe the only people who attacked you were also using a high level IF/XF.

No, not at all. Going through the retals, I don't remember seeing any higher than the low 100s. Some weren't even running GT. Definitely wasn't a case of whales plowing through everything.

Did any of them have purple?

Because I had no purple covers.

The level doesn't need to be high.

You just need 1 purple cover to make him an incredibly powerful support.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

My favorite thing about IF is that I haven't seen a new "nerf XForce!" thread in over a week.

Still haven't to seen an IF nerf idea that would leave me with a character I'd want to use...

My favorite thing about IF is seeing people clamor to defend him when it really isn't necessary.

Everybody knows.

This is just like Sentry. And Ragnarok. And Spider man. And Magneto.

The oppressive characters always have defenders saying "It's not THAT bad."

simonsez

onimus wrote:

Because I had no purple covers

And yet you could still beat a 5 purple IF (in between the times you were losing).

I'm just saying, when I wasn't worth that many points, it wasn't hard to find a much easier IF, so if people weren't bothering to skip and battle one of those instead, he might not be the boogeyman you guys are making him out to be.

Trisul

Seems more annoying than unbeatable.

simonsez

onimus wrote:

This is just like Sentry. And Ragnarok. And Spider man. And Magneto.

Hyperbole much? IF doesn't let you win in 1 move. He doesn't have a 2AP ability. And he doesn't generate infinite turns. Just say you don't like him because his moves are too powerful for your liking. Don't make invalid comparisons like that.

Wonko33

I am told I got lucky that I didn't lose to IF-4thor-Xforce but some guy post a picture of a cascades and people see it as proof, I've had cascades with Hawkeye 1*, big deal.

It might improve some of the 3*---> 4* conversion people come at us 4* guys but it won't break the game like Sentry did. But not all those guys have a 5black xforce also. I see these teams with under covered xforces all the time when I move from 300 to about 800 points, they can use IF all they want for all I care.

When it comes to crunch time, 800 and above, I think most of us use boosts, IF will be the low guy on the totem pole, he'll be gone in 2-3 turns, he might get off his purple but if he collected purple twice then it might not be enough for surgical strike yet (oh yeah I forgot the proof picture that says they will have 20 of each color after the mandatory cascade). Then he'll most likely be dead and maybe he accelerated his demise to my surgical strike as well. But unlike Sentry it is not an assured victory.

He's awesome, but he's just removed the thing that slows me down on hops, multiple 10k+ enemies. He'll be good when he is featured, when the featured person has tons of health and be a Shield Simulator king, but I am not ready to say he's a game breaker like Sentry was.

But to the people who say he's too good compared to most 3* , i think you are correct, and rereading the post this might have been the OP point so yes.

Trisul

onimus wrote:

This is just like Sentry. And Ragnarok. And Spider man. And Magneto.

I'm not convinced it's as bad as Sentry or Rag. (Spiderman and Magneto were always a bit slow for the shield hopping metas.)

The best team is still XF/GT, so it's not quite so meta-defining as your examples.

dkffiv

Phaserhawk wrote:

IF's Green--Is actually underpowered IMO, I would like to see some of the black strength go into here.

IF green flat out outclasses Psylocke's red and Gamora's black. I much prefer it over Sentry's yellow and I think its slightly better than R&G's blue.

BP is the standard for premier strike generation and IF is pretty comparable. IF is cheaper but on a less favorable color. His base tiles are weaker but the ability deals damage. His buffed tiles are stronger and the condition to generate I'd argue is easier but he requires more open tiles. I'd say his overall kit is better because BP's blue sucks.

Phaserhawk

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

IF's Green--Is actually underpowered IMO, I would like to see some of the black strength go into here.

IF green flat out outclasses Psylocke's red and Gamora's black. I much prefer it over Sentry's yellow and I think its slightly better than R&G's blue.

BP is the standard for premier strike generation and IF is pretty comparable. IF is cheaper but on a less favorable color. His base tiles are weaker but the ability deals damage. His buffed tiles are stronger and the condition to generate I'd argue is easier but he requires more open tiles. I'd say his overall kit is better because BP's blue sucks.

Psylocke,Gamora, Sentry? You just listed probably 3 of worst characters in the game. IF's green is comparable to Punisher's Judgment. IF gets higher intial damage but Pun gets cascade potential and their tiles are almost the same damage, assuming you get IF to the threshhold (comparing level 3 IF) I guess when I think about it, even his green is OP compared to Punisher because at level 3 it's doing the same as a maxed Judgement for Punisher.

dkffiv

Phaserhawk wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

IF's Green--Is actually underpowered IMO, I would like to see some of the black strength go into here.

IF green flat out outclasses Psylocke's red and Gamora's black. I much prefer it over Sentry's yellow and I think its slightly better than R&G's blue.

BP is the standard for premier strike generation and IF is pretty comparable. IF is cheaper but on a less favorable color. His base tiles are weaker but the ability deals damage. His buffed tiles are stronger and the condition to generate I'd argue is easier but he requires more open tiles. I'd say his overall kit is better because BP's blue sucks.

Psylocke,Gamora, Sentry? You just listed probably 3 of worst characters in the game. IF's green is comparable to Punisher's Judgment. IF gets higher intial damage but Pun gets cascade potential and their tiles are almost the same damage, assuming you get IF to the threshhold (comparing level 3 IF) I guess when I think about it, even his green is OP compared to Punisher because at level 3 it's doing the same as a maxed Judgement for Punisher.

I tried to edit in Punisher but it kept hanging on submit. He is pretty similar to Punisher, Punisher ends up destroying your tiles way more than he effectively cascades whereas IF will run out of red tiles with repeat casts.

Punisher and BP are the best cast activated strike tiles and IF seems just as good. His "worst" ability is on par with the best of its class.

Phaserhawk

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

dkffiv wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

IF's Green--Is actually underpowered IMO, I would like to see some of the black strength go into here.

IF green flat out outclasses Psylocke's red and Gamora's black. I much prefer it over Sentry's yellow and I think its slightly better than R&G's blue.

BP is the standard for premier strike generation and IF is pretty comparable. IF is cheaper but on a less favorable color. His base tiles are weaker but the ability deals damage. His buffed tiles are stronger and the condition to generate I'd argue is easier but he requires more open tiles. I'd say his overall kit is better because BP's blue sucks.

Psylocke,Gamora, Sentry? You just listed probably 3 of worst characters in the game. IF's green is comparable to Punisher's Judgment. IF gets higher intial damage but Pun gets cascade potential and their tiles are almost the same damage, assuming you get IF to the threshhold (comparing level 3 IF) I guess when I think about it, even his green is OP compared to Punisher because at level 3 it's doing the same as a maxed Judgement for Punisher.

I tried to edit in Punisher but it kept hanging on submit. He is pretty similar to Punisher, Punisher ends up destroying your tiles way more than he effectively cascades whereas IF will run out of red tiles with repeat casts.

Punisher and BP are the best cast activated strike tiles and IF seems just as good. His "worst" ability is on par with the best of its class.

That' is 100% true, it seems odd that where a characters skill at only 3 covers is still as good as a characters very similiar skill but with 5 covers.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

onimus wrote:

Because I had no purple covers

And yet you could still beat a 5 purple IF (in between the times you were losing).

I'm just saying, when I wasn't worth that many points, it wasn't hard to find a much easier IF, so if people weren't bothering to skip and battle one of those instead, he might not be the boogeyman you guys are making him out to be.

And?

Sentry teams were attacked too.

Being beatable on defense doesn't make a character not overpowered.

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

onimus wrote:

This is just like Sentry. And Ragnarok. And Spider man. And Magneto.

Hyperbole much? IF doesn't let you win in 1 move. He doesn't have a 2AP ability. And he doesn't generate infinite turns. Just say you don't like him because his moves are too powerful for your liking. Don't make invalid comparisons like that.

Really?

Boost 3 purple. 2 All ap.

You have an incredibly good chance of getting surgical strike turn 1.

If you're facing an Xforce, that could mean an Xforce turn 1 too.

He can, in fact, legitimately, win in 2 to 3 turns.

This isn't hyperbole.

This is who he is.

Just say you already invested HP and ISO into him so you don't want him to be balanced.

Don't try to underplay valid comparisons.

Unknown

onimus wrote:

simonsez wrote:

onimus wrote:

Because I had no purple covers

And yet you could still beat a 5 purple IF (in between the times you were losing).

I'm just saying, when I wasn't worth that many points, it wasn't hard to find a much easier IF, so if people weren't bothering to skip and battle one of those instead, he might not be the boogeyman you guys are making him out to be.

And?

Sentry teams were attacked too.

Being beatable on defense doesn't make a character not overpowered.

I can beat most level 395 teams in PvE straight up using the same requirement as a PvP event. That doesn't mean if someone was able to use 3 level 395s that'd somehow be remotely fair in PvP.

From what I can tell most teams in Fist Bump didn't have a maxed purple. Without a maxed purple you probably weren't losing to Iron Fist but you'd still bleed from his black and it's already pretty oppressive. It also helps that since you have to have Iron Fist, denying purple is a viable option. Normally, it wouldn't do you any good to take purple if you can't use it since that just lengthens the game, especially against a guy with an insanely awesome passive for long games.