*** Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) ***

Trisul

onimus wrote:

Trisul wrote:

He ran a 9-tile generator before, Thor yellow. It generated something like 5.3 avg AP or something like that.

Well there you go.

On average, you get a turn 1 surgical strike. Just like I thought.

Yeah I think it was colog mentioning how broken IF/XF/GT felt in Fist Bump. Doesn't quite challenge XF/GT as best pair though.

Unknown

It may not challenge XF/GT for many reasons, but I think it does challenge XF/Loki and XF/Hood. Nevermind the turn 1 SS (or 2 if you don't use rainbow boost), IF has half as much more HP than either of those 2, making him that much harder to get rid of, and on top of that there's the attack tile damage each turn. I dunno about you but I'd rather fight XF/Hood where I can use XF to kill Hood round 3 than fight XF/IF.

Anything that causes players to skip you is a good thing in PvP, part of the reason IF can't oust TG as top contender, but I think you would get a fair amount of skip happening with IF/XF.

simonsez

onimus wrote:

Because every time he cast it, it caused at least 2 matches. usually 3 or 4.

Oh, that's different... we all know the AI cheats. Just look at what happens with something like Godlike Power when you cast it vs. when the AI casts it.

Unknown

Polares wrote:

Right now, what I want is the devs acknowledging this debate, and I want them to tell us if IF is going to be nerfed or not. TELL US NOW.

I don't want to spend iso or even HP into him, and then devs nerfing him into oblivion in less than a month.

Think about it this way: either he's going to get nerfed or every other 3 star worse than him(60-85% of them) will get buffed. Which is more likely?

There's also the fact he feeds into X-Force. So he'll be the bridge between X-Force/Thor/etc.

Ozark Boatswain wrote:

Tripwire wrote:

As of now, I'm going to be dialing back my involvement with MPQ until I see how this gets resolved.

Same here. It's only Deadpool Dailies for me until this gets resolved.

You might be waiting a while. Look how long it took for Sentry to get nerfed.

Unknown

u guys are funny!

its not even a full week since hes ingame and yall demand the nerfbat.

u should all wear these:

NorthernPolarity

curlymustache wrote:

u guys are funny!

its not even a full week since hes ingame and yall demand the nerfbat.

u should all wear these:

Yeah, let's adapt to the Ragnarok turn one wins, or the spidey infinite stunlock. That sounds like a jolly old time.

simonsez

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Yeah, let's adapt to the Ragnarok turn one wins, or the spidey infinite stunlock.

Yes, because IF is EXACTLY like this

Can't anyone discuss this without propping up hyperbolic strawmen?

NorthernPolarity

simonsez wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Yeah, let's adapt to the Ragnarok turn one wins, or the spidey infinite stunlock.

Yes, because IF is EXACTLY like this

Can't anyone discuss this without propping up hyperbolic strawmen?

When people stop giving faulty arguments then sure. I think it's pretty established that IF is outside the bounds of what an acceptable power level a 3*should be.

Unknown

curlymustache wrote:

u guys are funny!

its not even a full week since hes ingame and yall demand the nerfbat.

u should all wear these:

I find that comment sad coming from someone named curlymustache. You've strayed far from the path.

Sandwichboy

The reason he's so powerful isn't that on his own he's broken. He's REALLY GOOD on his own, but it's because there's two characters with game ending black powers that he teams well with, and one who he was clearly designed to pair with. Paired with anyone other than BP, LC or XF, he's still really good and annoying to face, but not something I'd skip. And not everyone has these 3 guys maxed out. People need to stop forgetting that the top tier pvp meta isn't the entire game.

Unknown

Sandwichboy wrote:

The reason he's so powerful isn't that on his own he's broken. He's REALLY GOOD on his own, but it's because there's two characters with game ending black powers that he teams well with, and one who he was clearly designed to pair with. Paired with anyone other than BP, LC or XF, he's still really good and annoying to face, but not something I'd skip. And not everyone has these 3 guys maxed out. People need to stop forgetting that the top tier pvp meta isn't the entire game.

On his own he's not broken.
He's about on par with BP overall, but I'd always want him to fire off one of his powers over Rage of The Black Panther. People are running him in the new pvp and it's just not as good a team as xf gt.

Sword user

ark123 wrote:

Sandwichboy wrote:

The reason he's so powerful isn't that on his own he's broken. He's REALLY GOOD on his own, but it's because there's two characters with game ending black powers that he teams well with, and one who he was clearly designed to pair with. Paired with anyone other than BP, LC or XF, he's still really good and annoying to face, but not something I'd skip. And not everyone has these 3 guys maxed out. People need to stop forgetting that the top tier pvp meta isn't the entire game.

On his own he's not broken.
He's about on par with BP overall, but I'd always want him to fire off one of his powers over Rage of The Black Panther. People are running him in the new pvp and it's just not as good a team as xf gt.

My trouble is, overall, with him in the game, the power of all 3*s needs to be more. You've got some PunPun, looking for strike tiles from green? Better off having and investing in IF. Like strike tiles? Get an attack tile that absolutely can't be removed. I'm sorry, but it's 80%+ of the time that you're going to get 2 matches of black, many times a great deal more. Drain the board of purple and green, black'll get ya if he lucks into 2 matches or a 5 match (since the board will concentrate black). Collect black and risk an early purple and from there it's luck. Xor wins in PVP, so it's fine, right? How does that make any sense at all?

Tinykitty, so many people on this forum write from the perspective of someone with full TGT/Xforce, it's no wonder that people try to skip the 3* stuff and go directly to the 'winning team.'

Unknown

Sword user wrote:

ark123 wrote:

Sandwichboy wrote:

The reason he's so powerful isn't that on his own he's broken. He's REALLY GOOD on his own, but it's because there's two characters with game ending black powers that he teams well with, and one who he was clearly designed to pair with. Paired with anyone other than BP, LC or XF, he's still really good and annoying to face, but not something I'd skip. And not everyone has these 3 guys maxed out. People need to stop forgetting that the top tier pvp meta isn't the entire game.

On his own he's not broken.
He's about on par with BP overall, but I'd always want him to fire off one of his powers over Rage of The Black Panther. People are running him in the new pvp and it's just not as good a team as xf gt.

My trouble is, overall, with him in the game, the power of all 3*s needs to be more. You've got some PunPun, looking for strike tiles from green? Better off having and investing in IF. Like strike tiles? Get an attack tile that absolutely can't be removed. I'm sorry, but it's 80%+ of the time that you're going to get 2 matches of black, many times a great deal more. Drain the board of purple and green, black'll get ya if he lucks into 2 matches or a 5 match (since the board will concentrate black). Collect black and risk an early purple and from there it's luck. Xor wins in PVP, so it's fine, right? How does that make any sense at all?

Tinykitty, so many people on this forum write from the perspective of someone with full TGT/Xforce, it's no wonder that people try to skip the 3* stuff and go directly to the 'winning team.'

I beat a bunch of full IFs this last pvp into the ground, so I can say with some authority.

IF is great for hopping with xf, and pretty much nothing else. In defense, he is a dud. Sure he will hit your support a bunch when you're matching support colors, but most of the time you're either matching green for xf or blue/red for gt, and neither of those care about the tile.

He's a great 3*. But use him while you're attempting to go past 800 points in pvp and I guarantee everyone in the planet will hit you instead of any team with gt/xf.

P.S.: my xf isn't viable to I had to down those maxed teams with loki/GT. Which I did. Repeatedly.

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

I beat a bunch of full IFs this last pvp into the ground, so I can say with some authority.

IF is great for hopping with xf, and pretty much nothing else. In defense, he is a dud. Sure he will hit your support a bunch when you're matching support colors, but most of the time you're either matching green for xf or blue/red for gt, and neither of those care about the tile.

He's a great 3*. But use him while you're attempting to go past 800 points in pvp and I guarantee everyone in the planet will hit you instead of any team with gt/xf.

P.S.: my xf isn't viable to I had to down those maxed teams with loki/GT. Which I did. Repeatedly.

If you're mostly matching green, blue, or red, that leaves purple unopposed and you're not outracing Iron Fist to a purple combo into Surgical Strike unless the AI decides to take one of their max out TU detours (which does happen a lot). I mean, of course what you describe works because the AI mysteriously tries to collect 20 TU AP for no reason and ignore all the purple AP and then you win. But it's pretty much playing Russian Roluette and while the odds are probably in the player's favor (AI really loves TUs) it's hardly a reliable strategy. Without considering what colors the featured character may have, if you got green/blue/red that leaves the AI only TU, purple, black, and yellow as its choices (IF + X Force also would never prioritize blue/red in the first place). Yellow and TU are harmless, but black and purple is definitely not.

I guess it's the best strategy you can use but if the AI decides to get purple for any reason it can blow you up in a spectcular fashion and Surgical on green/red will either likely KO at least one guy or disassemble your combo completely.

Unknown

While messing around with various IF teams, I stumbled into something sort of interesting. Even at max level, it's possible to hide IF in the back behind the regenerating tag team of Patch and Daken so he tanks no colors. The downside is you don't have an outlet for black, but you can use IF's purple initially to cause a strike tile fueled cascade and then tee off with 4k blasts for the rest of the fight. Also worth noting is because Patch tanks all his colors this makes for a pretty good Best This Is team for 5 red builds, which is actually pretty hard to come by these days.

Unknown

Hey All

Miles from Demiurge here to let you know about some new character updates that are coming soon to Marvel Puzzle Quest.

Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon) - Coming 3/23/15

Our next update is to Iron Fist (Immortal Weapon). When we launched Iron Fist a week or so ago, we got a lot of feedback that his Purple ability was too powerful. We dug back into the numbers and found that indeed it was! As a result we’ve rebalanced his purple ability, preserving the way it works but reducing the number of Black tiles that are generated.

Iron Fist of K’un-Lun - Old - Cost: 5
Daniel Rand focuses his chi to make his fist like unto a thing of iron and strikes. If the team has less than 12 Black AP, converts 5 basic tiles to Black. If the team has 12 or more Black AP, deals 498 damage instead.
Level 2 - Deals 598 damage.
Level 3 - Converts 6 tiles or deals 697 damage.
Level 4 - Converts 7 tile or deals 896 damage.
Level 5 - Converts 9 tiles or deals 1295 damage.
MAX Level 5: Converts 9 tiles or deals 4113 damage.

Iron Fist of K’un-Lun - New - Cost: 5
Daniel Rand focuses his chi to make his fist like unto a thing of iron and strikes. If the team has less than 12 Black AP, converts 3 basic tiles to Black. If the team has 12 or more Black AP, deals 498 damage instead.
Level 2 -Converts 4 tiles or deals 598 damage.
Level 3 - Converts 5 tiles or deals 697 damage.
Level 4 - Converts 6 tile or deals 896 damage.
Level 5 - Converts 7 tiles or deals 1295 damage.
MAX Level 5: Converts 7 tiles or deals 4113 damage.

This change to Iron Fist will land in game on Monday 3/23.

[Extracted from original post. It and further discussion on the change can be found here].

***
Original post:

Wow, less than a month and they agree he needed to be nerfed. That's how OP he was. My 6 month estimate was way off. Still think he'll be plenty strong with the change. I can only imagine the rage of non-forum users in a couple weeks when they find out IF has been nerfed.

Personally still think Black is overpowered; sticking with my original 6 month nerf guess on that one.

Phaserhawk

The nerf probably isn't enough but it does reign him in a little bit more, not sure it was enough to opt going 5/3/5, so I'll stick with the 3/5/5 format. Having dropped some saved HP I have mine 2/5/3. Having him 2/4/3 purple felt strong at 7 tiles and felt overly powerful at 9, the cost may still be a bit too low but glad they updated this.

simonsez

Phaserhawk wrote:

The nerf probably isn't enough

This is really not the best time to go there...

Unknown

They really nerfed Iron Fist? Does that mean X-Force and other 4* are working as intended? Why is Iron Fist getting so much attention, yeesh?

SnowcaTT

raisinbman wrote:

They really nerfed Iron Fist? Does that mean X-Force and other 4* are working as intended? Why is Iron Fist getting so much attention, yeesh?

Well, 4hor got the nerf as well and Charles was pre-nerfed. IF may be the 2nd strongest character in the game even after a little nerf, and he'll see tons of play by enabling the strongest (X-force....who they buffed, so a nerf might indicate they goofed?)